Anti-Homeless spikes
10 June 2014, 09:22 PM
#271
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That's true in a sense but productive assets are different than non productive ones.
10 June 2014, 09:30 PM
#272
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10 June 2014, 09:54 PM
#273
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That isn't how it works. It produces money sure but no goods or services, same as if I 'rented' you the air to breath in your lungs. No wealth is created, just income.
10 June 2014, 10:08 PM
#274
Well he does have some Grand Designs about how the property market; where there are no landlords so should have no problems getting on the Property Ladder where everyone is given a house and people can produce something physical by working off the land. I would guess his ideal Location, Location, Location would be North Korea. However, he does have a tendency to go above his station which would force his Homes Under the Hammer as it would incur the wrath of the State and would have no choice but to consider Relocation, Relocation, perhaps a Place in the Sun or Escape to the Country.
10 June 2014, 10:12 PM
#275
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Much the same as if you rent a room in a hotel, you pay the hotel (and thus it's owner) in exchange for the use of a room for a given period of time.
As for renting the air, I think we both know that's a daft example.
10 June 2014, 10:17 PM
#277
So if work meant you had to go and live away from your normal residence for say 1 year where there are no rental properties, do you buy a place temporarily to live? What would you do without the option to rent?
10 June 2014, 10:34 PM
#279
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And this is where your hatred of BTL clouds your judgement. As I've already said, renting out a property is the provision of a service. The landlord provides and maintains accommodation for the tenant in exchange for money, thus a service is rendered.
Much the same as if you rent a room in a hotel, you pay the hotel (and thus it's owner) in exchange for the use of a room for a given period of time.
As for renting the air, I think we both know that's a daft example.
Much the same as if you rent a room in a hotel, you pay the hotel (and thus it's owner) in exchange for the use of a room for a given period of time.
As for renting the air, I think we both know that's a daft example.
By your definition we could get wealthy from making air a property and charging people to breath.
Maintenance is one different thing, and I would concede that rent covers a small portion of that.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 10 June 2014 at 10:36 PM.
10 June 2014, 10:36 PM
#280
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That's a false dichotomy. People lived in dwelling before the construction of private property and concomitant cash rents.
10 June 2014, 10:47 PM
#281
Last edited by jonc; 10 June 2014 at 10:51 PM.
10 June 2014, 11:13 PM
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10 June 2014, 11:19 PM
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10 June 2014, 11:50 PM
#285
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Come on guys when is this going to end, you carry on if you want but I think the next step is to start drawing pictures to help explain and primary school ended many years ago for me.
10 June 2014, 11:54 PM
#286
A private landlord could very easily, instead of merely 'preventing someone from using shelter' as you put it, tear down that shelter and put up a small workshop in its place, or use the land on which it sat for farming, and derive an alternative income from either of those sources. Only somebody with an entirely one-dimensional view of the world could fail to understand that this is why provision of shelter in exchange for rent is a legitimate service.
11 June 2014, 12:20 AM
#287
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A private landlord could very easily, instead of merely 'preventing someone from using shelter' as you put it, tear down that shelter and put up a small workshop in its place, or use the land on which it sat for farming, and derive an alternative income from either of those sources. Only somebody with an entirely one-dimensional view of the world could fail to understand that this is why provision of shelter in exchange for rent is a legitimate service.
11 June 2014, 01:10 AM
#288
By your definition, a car hire company is also merely 'not doing something', since they could just as easily sell off their entire vehicle fleet and invest the proceeds in a completely different kind of business, instead of hiring out cars to their customers. Likewise, a bank is only 'not doing something' if it lends someone £20K to buy a new car, since it could use that money to buy new computers or better parking facilities for its staff instead.
The list of analogies could go on and on almost indefinitely.
The list of analogies could go on and on almost indefinitely.
11 June 2014, 01:18 AM
#289
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By your definition, a car hire company is also merely 'not doing something', since they could just as easily sell off their entire vehicle fleet and invest the proceeds in a completely different kind of business, instead of hiring out cars to their customers. Likewise, a bank is only 'not doing something' if it lends someone £20K to buy a new car, since it could use that money to buy new computers or better parking facilities for its staff instead.
The list of analogies could go on and on almost indefinitely.
The list of analogies could go on and on almost indefinitely.
Like I said people lived in shelter before the modern institution of property. By your logic living in shelter is impossible without someone to pay rent to. The facts refute this.
First came the power which carried the ability to exclude others from a given piece of land, then comes a demand for cash in return for that right not being exercised. You act like this power is God given or from nature. It's entirely contingent and man made.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 11 June 2014 at 01:21 AM.
11 June 2014, 05:59 AM
#290
He's still banging on at 1am in the morning, you should try producing something yourself instead of drivel.What is it that you produce joe?
Another
at the I got rich quick, I hate to burst your bubble but i'm not rich 
it's taken me 30yrs to get where I am and i'm still going, I got up at 5.30am and when I finish this coffee i'm going outside to produce about 10 mixers worth of concrete which i'll have to carry up ladders 2.5m high in buckets on my own.So yeah I do bugger all and leach off society.
See you in a few hours when i've finished producing something that looks like a dwelling for poor people that can't afford to buy or don't even know how to mix cement and put one stone on top of another.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 11 June 2014 at 06:02 AM.
11 June 2014, 06:08 AM
#291
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Sure but a vehicle fleet must be produced, property on the other hand is declared into existence.
Like I said people lived in shelter before the modern institution of property. By your logic living in shelter is impossible without someone to pay rent to. The facts refute this.
First came the power which carried the ability to exclude others from a given piece of land, then comes a demand for cash in return for that right not being exercised. You act like this power is God given or from nature. It's entirely contingent and man made.
Like I said people lived in shelter before the modern institution of property. By your logic living in shelter is impossible without someone to pay rent to. The facts refute this.
First came the power which carried the ability to exclude others from a given piece of land, then comes a demand for cash in return for that right not being exercised. You act like this power is God given or from nature. It's entirely contingent and man made.
Yes but in those days people were still excluded from land. It's just that back then it was done by the guy with a bigger stick/sword/army rather than land deeds. He would probably rape your wife and daughter for good measure.
Is this the system you would prefer?
11 June 2014, 09:16 AM
#293
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A service can never be defined as not doing something; in this case not preventing someone one from using shelter.
By your definition we could get wealthy from making air a property and charging people to breath.
Maintenance is one different thing, and I would concede that rent covers a small portion of that.
By your definition we could get wealthy from making air a property and charging people to breath.
Maintenance is one different thing, and I would concede that rent covers a small portion of that.
What do you think rent covers?
11 June 2014, 09:37 AM
#295
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Sure but a vehicle fleet must be produced, property on the other hand is declared into existence.
Like I said people lived in shelter before the modern institution of property. By your logic living in shelter is impossible without someone to pay rent to. The facts refute this.
First came the power which carried the ability to exclude others from a given piece of land, then comes a demand for cash in return for that right not being exercised. You act like this power is God given or from nature. It's entirely contingent and man made.
Like I said people lived in shelter before the modern institution of property. By your logic living in shelter is impossible without someone to pay rent to. The facts refute this.
First came the power which carried the ability to exclude others from a given piece of land, then comes a demand for cash in return for that right not being exercised. You act like this power is God given or from nature. It's entirely contingent and man made.
What you are asking for is the ability to build a shelter on "free" land. Which is a far removed from not being able to buy something "affordable" becasue the BTL landlords had snapped it all up forcing you to rent instead (which was your earlier complaint).
I agree its man made. Of course it is. Blame William the Conqueror for the fact you can't just erect a shelter where you want in England without buying the land first.
But there are plenty of places all across the globe where you can build your shelter for the cost of materials. Feel free to go live in an Igloo, or a shanty town, for example.
What you appear to want is the commuinist ideal. Hate to have to break this to you but it just doesn't work.
11 June 2014, 09:48 AM
#297
He's still banging on at 1am in the morning, you should try producing something yourself instead of drivel.What is it that you produce joe?
Another
at the I got rich quick, I hate to burst your bubble but i'm not rich it's taken me 30yrs to get where I am and i'm still going, I got up at 5.30am and when I finish this coffee i'm going outside to produce about 10 mixers worth of concrete which i'll have to carry up ladders 2.5m high in buckets on my own.So yeah I do bugger all and leach off society.
See you in a few hours when i've finished producing something that looks like a dwelling for poor people that can't afford to buy or don't even know how to mix cement and put one stone on top of another.
11 June 2014, 10:00 AM
#299
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11 June 2014, 10:20 AM
#300
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