Dingdongler

I can't dictate where I buy my petrol from, YOU have a monopoly. However I would prefer millions of the poor in third world countries didn't die because of the dodgy deals done between corrupt govts and big oil.

But if you are happy with this arrangement who am I to judge?

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

A human not having enough finances.

Chip

The property owner.

zip106

Can't believe Mr Raving Socialist advocates tax evasion.
That puts him at the lower dregs of society, worse than a drink-driver.

And to work for an oil company that indirectly makes people homeless and causes death and destruction.... Unbelievable double standards.

I shall no longer believe a word he says.
Troll is obvious.

tony de wonderful

There's your problem then.

Some people demanding money for land which they hold a monopoly right over.

tony de wonderful

I don't work for an oil company. I work for a service company and I ply a trade.

I actually work for a living, unlike some on here who dip their hands in someone elses pocket for part or all of their income.

You don't use petrol?

As for tax evasion I've never advocated it.

I'm sure Ding pays the minimum amount of tax he owes by law. That is only what I endorse.

tony de wonderful

I have a monopoly on what? I'm a tradesman with a skill which helps drill holes in the ground. I'm forced to ply my trade in part because someone else owns the roof over my head and I must pay them rent or they kick me out.

My relationship to corrupt governments is no different than yours is because you buy petrol.

We trade in the same market.

Don't play a competition with me to be the most ethical because you are no more ethical than me.

zip106

Yes, I use petrol.

I use it to do my work so I can pay my taxes, and the extra tax I have to pay to cover the bit you evade, and to avoid my family becoming homeless.

I also use it to keep my family warm and fed.

I have to pay the extortionate costs that your company bestows on me to heat my home just so you can make lots of money and evade taxes.

Hope you're proud of yourself.

andylinney

You know what's really sad is that the opportunity to raise awareness of the challenges that people who are homeless, for whatever reason, has been missed and turned into a chance to name call and score points from one another, why not just get it over and done with and post a pic of your bank balance and a letter form your GP certifying the size of your d!ck.

Honestly... Daily mail subscriptions anyone?

tony de wonderful

NSR can be very childish at times.

tony de wonderful

Grow up.

zip106

Hit a bit of a nerve?

I grew up when I was 16 and without a home.

stipete75

In this day and age no body deserves to be homeless.
Those spikes are like kicking them in the bollox when at their lowest.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

This ^^^^ Sums many on this site up these days!

zip106

Then move on - not every doorway has spikes.
If you're genuinely homeless then it's a mild inconvenience if that happened to be your favourite spot.

The non-homeless being offended for someone who probably doesn't give a $hit.

andylinney

Zip, I spent 5 years with CAB then onto working with the homeless, long term unemployed and people with learning disabilities before taking up the role in a GP surgery. All in all I've been around people who most definitely do care and whilst I'm not offended on anyone's behalf this is something that if it goes unnoticed will become more widespread. Okay, in one or two places it's an inconvenience and as someone said earlier, actually a bit warmer if you were to put something over the top of them. However, when it's every suitable space what then?

Organisations like the CAB and Shelter to name just two do massive amounts of unseen work on social policy to try and improve things for people, if something like this gets the general publics notice then it adds a lot of weight to their campaigning.

I consider myself very lucky to have never found myself in a situation like that, but I'm also perfectly aware that in the right set of circumstances I could just as easily be the person looking for somewhere to shelter.

hodgy0_2

These "tramps" that presumably you would not **** on

Why do you think so many are such are ex servicemen?, people who have put on a uniform - for you!!!!!


Don't be shy - what do you think?

zip106

Andy - I applaud you for your work but my comment wasn't aimed at you per se.

Carnut

If its spikes were talking about or tax dodging is it not just a case of us putting are selves/families first? I know we could all do more to help others but it seems that some people think that they have the god given right to say by how much.
In my opinion there seems to be a lot of double standards going on here.

tony de wonderful

Your cynical and immature.

tony de wonderful

There are people on this forum actively contributing to the problem by owning rental properties.

It's a sin of commision not a sin of omission (not helping enough with charity).

Carnut

How does someone owning rental properties contribute to the homeless? (Genuine question)

Even if it does contribute in some way is it so much so that it out ways lots of other contributions? I'm sure in some way or another we could all do things differently to help others. The question is , who should decide by what amount an individual can or can not put them selves first?

If I was to do a bit of tax dodging and owned a few rentals but helped others in another way who is to decide how I balance my morel code?

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

I think the article fails to understand the real reasoning behind why these spikes are installed, they are designed to remove a sleeping site for a homeless person, but this is not as harsh as it may seem. Rough sleeping is a form of slow suicide, whatever situation has caused that person to be on the street will have already damaged their self esteem and stripped away their dignity. When they have lived this life for a while they see themselves as being of no worth, their life is without purpose and they can see no way to escape their situation. Removing their sleeping site, is part of a strategy to force them out into the open, to force them towards help. Sleeping on the street is not a good thing, it kills people. There are a small number of people who "choose" to extracate themselves from society, for a range of reasons. This type of homeless person doesn't sleep in doorways, they don't sleep outside apartment blocks for the well-heeled, they hide away from the world, they make themselves difficult to find - I know of a former soldier who behaves like this as a result of PTSD. Those who sleep in doorways and foyers of apartment blocks are a symptom of severe mental health problems, drug or alcohol problems. There are support services available to assist with those problems (they need improement through investment but that is another debate), but those affected by homelessness need persuaded they can not continue as they are, and need to be compassionately directed towards those support services.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I'm quite sure those that are outraged by this would feel differently should some mentally ill drug/ drink addicted person set up home in their porch or garage.

It's all well and good pointing the finger at one another when not faced with the reality of such a situation.

I for one would feel quite ill at ease should some pts afflicted ex-serviceman with a drug addiction decide that he want's to live outside my front door where my wife and child pass on a daily basis, who knows what someone in this situation is capable of.

These people are not the responsibility of the individual renter of an apartment in a block of flats whom presumably complained to the relevant authorities and basically got nowhere no doubt, they are the responsibility of the government who effectively made them homeless through lack of support.

It's part of the reason some of us pay tax.

It's all well and good bashing landlords but they are at least providing a service to those who for one reason or another are unable to get on the housing ladder, to suggest they should not receive some sort of recompense for said service is a kin to suggesting we all go to work for free.


To suggest those of us that use petrol are somehow complicit in the systematic oppression of poor oil rich countries and their corrupt governments and oil companies that bribe them as a way of avoiding the fact that one makes ones bigger than required for survival loaf of daily bread from the misery of others is laughable in the extreme, when one considers that said oil companies buy the rights to alternative fuels and the inventions that would make use of such fuels to maintain their monopoly, so in effect forcing the world to continue using their products to their benefit and our detriment.

TDW

Why not make your contribution to mankind and stop offering your services to these exploiters of people and one of earths natural resources, or at the very least offer your couch to a homeless person, after all your not there half of the year so it's not as if your place is being put to good use as it's empty half the time, or maybe you could give it up all together and give someone else a chance of getting a place to live that earns considerably less than you and go into a B+B while your here after all you can afford it with your dirty money, lets not forget there is a shortage of affordable housing and you are in fact depriving someone less fortunate than yourself of a place to stay by renting a flat that you barely use. Hell you'd even save money by putting your stuff into storage instead of keeping it in an apartment, which would enable you to keep more of your £££ towards a deposit and as such no longer cause you to consider ways of avoiding tax, and you would no longer be lining the pockets of some unscrupulous land lord thus removing yourself from this exploitative system of which you are actually part of the problem. Win, win,win situation.

zip106

Tony, I think I actually pity you.

You clearly need some direction in life as at the moment you appear sad, lonely and racked with guilt for some reason.

Perhaps put your big boys drill away and go to work for a charity of some kind?
It may help you feel at ease with yourself and give you a purpose in life.

(And it's 'you're'. Even us immature people can get that right)

dpb

Or maybe go live in utopian Germany, where nearly everybody rents.

Dingdongler

People may think I've gone way off topic but I feel it was a genuine response to certain individuals and their personal agendas.

It has been implied/stated that if you own a rental property you are contributing directly to somebody sleeping rough. It has also been stated that an uncaring attitude toward these people is peculiar to London as though everywhere else in the country they would be invited in for a bed, three square meals and a go on your mrs.


The op is not actually interested in discussing the plight of those that sleep rough. He wants to use it as yet another excuse to bang on about rentiers and landlords.

There are huge imbalances in our society, we all know that. We could all do more and we could all do with an attitude adjustment towards those existing at the fringes of our society.

I just can't stand the holier than thou attitude from a couple of individuals. Especially the op who though he likes to lecture he himself looks to evade tax and makes a living by working for corrupt oil companies that are responsible for millions in the developing world not having food or shelter.

That was my point and I make no apologies in banging on about it just as much as the op bangs on about his agenda.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think you're kind of missing the point. Whilst in reality we all to an extent agree with some of what you say above it is the sentiment behind such a cynical selfish 'solution' that gets to me.

Surely instead of dreaming up the idea of solutions like the spikes and then spending money implementing them would we as a society not be better spending money on finding a solution to the actual problem rather than the symptoms?

The implication here is that the wealthy property owners would rather spend their money keeping the 'scum' off their property as if it isn't happening to them it isn't a problem!

Oh and to answer the 'other poster' above London and the SE is worse for this sort of attitude than the rest of the country, the fact you think it isn't is actually an indicator of the insular nature of people who live there

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I think we do pay in the form of taxes, it's the government and previous synical policies like (and I know your going to like this bit) care in the community introduced by yours and my favourite Mrs Thatcher.

For me it's yet another example of the government of the day abdicating responsibility for the more vulnerable in society, nothing to do with private tenants or landlords who are basically being forced to resort to extreme measures due to government inaction. The government after all said and done has a duty of care to ALL of us.

He who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.

Turbohot

Well said, there. Spikes are deterrents, not the solution. For a developed and 'aware' side of the world, spikes are the ridiculous 'solution' to keep the trouble away.