Is an STI that much different from a WRX?
01 December 2014 | 08:56 AM
#152
I'd give up worrying about Dan. I don't disagree with him on most of what he says but he just spouts the same old thing like a broken record and then calls anyone that doesn't agree with him, an idiot.
He must have said the same thing 10 times on this thread alone.
It is a shame as for someone that has his head screwed on, he is coming across as a troll.
He must have said the same thing 10 times on this thread alone.
It is a shame as for someone that has his head screwed on, he is coming across as a troll.
01 December 2014 | 11:47 AM
#153
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Joined: Jun 2014
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From: Wolverhampton
Which is also where I was coming from in my earlier posts before things got a little silly.
In stock form neither are that great TBH when it comes to the twisty bits, STI has stiffer suspension and slightly thicker roll bars but it's still an understeering pig when you push a little harder, which you will once you get to know the car by the sounds of it, that and the fact your dad has an MX5 tells me there is a bit of a driver in both of you.
Despite what the Fanboys of both versions will tell you, you'll notice a common theme, the ones that can drive a bit and have upped the power will have also done some form of handling and braking mods, basically because we all know they don't go round corners anything like they are capable of going in a straight line.
There are simple cost effective solutions to your dilemma in both the power and handling stakes that don't cost a fortune and are in fact a lot cheaper than junking the WRX and buying an STI, especially if you like your teeth and kidneys and just want a decent handling daily that can be fun on country roads.
Power wise it's the PPP (Prodrive Performance Pack) which for the WRX consists of a second cat delete,(mot friendly) silicone Intercooler Y pipe, up-rated panel filter, prodrive back box (optional really) and a simple free re-flash of the ECU, My Blob WRX Prodrive PPP map is in the mapping section and you'd just need to ask nicely one of the guys in that section to flash it for you once you bought the relevant parts, takes 5 mins.
It does have it's detractors which is actually more about the cost from the dealer new historically than the map it'self. For the WRX it gives a healthy mid range punch and a decent power increase up to circa 265bhp dependant on the overall condition of the car, some make that figure some don't. This can easily be done for way less than £200 and is not a lot of work, very simple DIY and the parts are readily available on here, just keep an eye on the for sale section, or post a wanted thread.
The handling can be addressed by as mentioned above, 22/24mm rear roll bar, I would go 24mm, an ALK or castor correction kit (same thing) Solid front and rear roll bar drop links, I also added some steering rack poly bushes along with front and rear roll bar poly bushes (very cheap new or second hand) Circa £50 all in. Then it's up to you if you want to put the finishing touch of a set of up-rated springs, I have just bought some new Wagon specific Prodrive springs which give a slight drop 35mm front and 25mm rear I believe. Then to bring it all together you'll need a fast road laser Alignment geometry set up done by a Subaru Specialist.
Now to be fair you won't see any change from £500 for the full handling package but it will handle a **** sight better than standard and be quite a lot of fun in the twisty bits.
Also bear in mind BOTH the STI and WRX suffer from the same problems so BOTH will require most of what's listed above if you want a sorted B road blaster.
Also the STI has suspension Issues with knocking and TBH the standard suspension isn't that great as it has a firm crashy ride, which pretty much everyone ends up replacing with cheap coilovers which IMO are even worse and not at all suited to our crap British roads.
HTH.
In stock form neither are that great TBH when it comes to the twisty bits, STI has stiffer suspension and slightly thicker roll bars but it's still an understeering pig when you push a little harder, which you will once you get to know the car by the sounds of it, that and the fact your dad has an MX5 tells me there is a bit of a driver in both of you.
Despite what the Fanboys of both versions will tell you, you'll notice a common theme, the ones that can drive a bit and have upped the power will have also done some form of handling and braking mods, basically because we all know they don't go round corners anything like they are capable of going in a straight line.
There are simple cost effective solutions to your dilemma in both the power and handling stakes that don't cost a fortune and are in fact a lot cheaper than junking the WRX and buying an STI, especially if you like your teeth and kidneys and just want a decent handling daily that can be fun on country roads.
Power wise it's the PPP (Prodrive Performance Pack) which for the WRX consists of a second cat delete,(mot friendly) silicone Intercooler Y pipe, up-rated panel filter, prodrive back box (optional really) and a simple free re-flash of the ECU, My Blob WRX Prodrive PPP map is in the mapping section and you'd just need to ask nicely one of the guys in that section to flash it for you once you bought the relevant parts, takes 5 mins.
It does have it's detractors which is actually more about the cost from the dealer new historically than the map it'self. For the WRX it gives a healthy mid range punch and a decent power increase up to circa 265bhp dependant on the overall condition of the car, some make that figure some don't. This can easily be done for way less than £200 and is not a lot of work, very simple DIY and the parts are readily available on here, just keep an eye on the for sale section, or post a wanted thread.
The handling can be addressed by as mentioned above, 22/24mm rear roll bar, I would go 24mm, an ALK or castor correction kit (same thing) Solid front and rear roll bar drop links, I also added some steering rack poly bushes along with front and rear roll bar poly bushes (very cheap new or second hand) Circa £50 all in. Then it's up to you if you want to put the finishing touch of a set of up-rated springs, I have just bought some new Wagon specific Prodrive springs which give a slight drop 35mm front and 25mm rear I believe. Then to bring it all together you'll need a fast road laser Alignment geometry set up done by a Subaru Specialist.
Now to be fair you won't see any change from £500 for the full handling package but it will handle a **** sight better than standard and be quite a lot of fun in the twisty bits.
Also bear in mind BOTH the STI and WRX suffer from the same problems so BOTH will require most of what's listed above if you want a sorted B road blaster.
Also the STI has suspension Issues with knocking and TBH the standard suspension isn't that great as it has a firm crashy ride, which pretty much everyone ends up replacing with cheap coilovers which IMO are even worse and not at all suited to our crap British roads.
HTH.
. I tend to look after my cars, the first thing I did when I bought my wrx was take it down to RCM for a major service and then to a bodyshop for some touching up.
So instead of doing away with the work it's had done - i'll work on getting the car the way I way I want it. The handling setup you suggested sounds like it'll do just what I want, as for power I've already started stock piling the Prodrive bits and bobs.
How do the Prodrive springs ride on a day to day basis? The roads around me aren't the greatest lol
Thanks for the help,
Webby
01 December 2014 | 02:47 PM
#155
Not sure how they ride yet as mine are in a parcel at home in England and me and the car are in Croatia, I'll be fitting them after christmas. By all accounts they ride really well, there's two threads about them in the group buys section, mine are Wagon specific but the second thread has saloon ones in I believe. I think there's still a few sets left.
I have also just bought some solid front droplinks to fit along with Classic STI alloy front arms to stiffen the front end further, I'll be fitting an ALK at the same time so that lot along with a cusco roll bar brace I just bought should see me about right handling wise.
I have also just bought some solid front droplinks to fit along with Classic STI alloy front arms to stiffen the front end further, I'll be fitting an ALK at the same time so that lot along with a cusco roll bar brace I just bought should see me about right handling wise.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 01 December 2014 at 02:57 PM.
01 December 2014 | 10:14 PM
#156
Thanks for the boat load of information, it's made up my mind .
I tend to look after my cars, the first thing I did when I bought my wrx was take it down to RCM for a major service and then to a bodyshop for some touching up.
So instead of doing away with the work it's had done - i'll work on getting the car the way I way I want it. The handling setup you suggested sounds like it'll do just what I want, as for power I've already started stock piling the Prodrive bits and bobs.
How do the Prodrive springs ride on a day to day basis? The roads around me aren't the greatest lol
Thanks for the help,
Webby
. I tend to look after my cars, the first thing I did when I bought my wrx was take it down to RCM for a major service and then to a bodyshop for some touching up.
So instead of doing away with the work it's had done - i'll work on getting the car the way I way I want it. The handling setup you suggested sounds like it'll do just what I want, as for power I've already started stock piling the Prodrive bits and bobs.
How do the Prodrive springs ride on a day to day basis? The roads around me aren't the greatest lol
Thanks for the help,
Webby
Last edited by F1 CJE UK; 01 December 2014 at 10:21 PM.
01 December 2014 | 11:13 PM
#157
On a side note....
It's so refreshing to see a chap of just 19 with his head screwed on. The usual questions from one so young are.... "I want 400bhp, whats the cheapest way" or "who makes the loudest dump valve and how much power will it give me"...etc etc etc.....
OP,
In my humble opinion. ......
The newage WRX and STI are two very different cars which appeal to two different markets. The WRX offers slightly above average performance for not alot of money. They go ok'ish, are a little soft around the edges but can be had for little money. They cost less to run and are a little more civilised to drive so if its an everyday car you need with a little bit of poke then maybe a WRX is the best bet. They really aren't that inspiring in standard trim to be honest but throw a grand at one and they can be pretty good. If heavy modding is on the horizon (upward of 350bhp) then the WRX probably isn't the best starting point.
The STI is the better car in standard trim. They handle better, they look better, they stop better and they go better. But then you'd expect that because they cost almost double. They cost more to run and they aren't quite as comfortable but at 19 I very much doubt you are concerned with comfort....lol... Plus, with not much money they can see a comfortable 400bhp and be quite a weapon. So if you plan on keeping it for sometime then an STI is a good choice because at some point you'll start modding, we all do.
My concern is as I said in an earlier post, insurance. At 19 an STI will be awfully expensive to insure. And no doubt a modified WRX will be similarly awful.
I do believe however that the Prodrive Performance Package is recognised by insurers and doesn't quite hurt the pocket as much. So maybe a WRX with the PPP fitted will be a great stepping stone while you wait until an STI is insurable at a relatively decent price. I'll also imagine minor things like thicker anti roll bars and better springs will not effect the policy but will dramatically transform the car. These coupled with the extra horse power from the PPP may well be enough to keep you entertained for a couple of years.
And my final point is you need experience driving cars like these. I'm not being condescending but at 19 you've got a lot to learn. Sometimes jumping in at the deep end doesn't end well and not only will a slightly lesser car aid your driving education it will also aid your insurance premiums in the future.
But what do I know. I've had both a newage WRX and a newage JDM STI and hated both. Hence why I own the best impreza ever produced, a classic STI RA :-)
It's so refreshing to see a chap of just 19 with his head screwed on. The usual questions from one so young are.... "I want 400bhp, whats the cheapest way" or "who makes the loudest dump valve and how much power will it give me"...etc etc etc.....
OP,
In my humble opinion. ......
The newage WRX and STI are two very different cars which appeal to two different markets. The WRX offers slightly above average performance for not alot of money. They go ok'ish, are a little soft around the edges but can be had for little money. They cost less to run and are a little more civilised to drive so if its an everyday car you need with a little bit of poke then maybe a WRX is the best bet. They really aren't that inspiring in standard trim to be honest but throw a grand at one and they can be pretty good. If heavy modding is on the horizon (upward of 350bhp) then the WRX probably isn't the best starting point.
The STI is the better car in standard trim. They handle better, they look better, they stop better and they go better. But then you'd expect that because they cost almost double. They cost more to run and they aren't quite as comfortable but at 19 I very much doubt you are concerned with comfort....lol... Plus, with not much money they can see a comfortable 400bhp and be quite a weapon. So if you plan on keeping it for sometime then an STI is a good choice because at some point you'll start modding, we all do.
My concern is as I said in an earlier post, insurance. At 19 an STI will be awfully expensive to insure. And no doubt a modified WRX will be similarly awful.
I do believe however that the Prodrive Performance Package is recognised by insurers and doesn't quite hurt the pocket as much. So maybe a WRX with the PPP fitted will be a great stepping stone while you wait until an STI is insurable at a relatively decent price. I'll also imagine minor things like thicker anti roll bars and better springs will not effect the policy but will dramatically transform the car. These coupled with the extra horse power from the PPP may well be enough to keep you entertained for a couple of years.
And my final point is you need experience driving cars like these. I'm not being condescending but at 19 you've got a lot to learn. Sometimes jumping in at the deep end doesn't end well and not only will a slightly lesser car aid your driving education it will also aid your insurance premiums in the future.
But what do I know. I've had both a newage WRX and a newage JDM STI and hated both. Hence why I own the best impreza ever produced, a classic STI RA :-)
02 December 2014 | 01:41 PM
#158
Thread Starter
Scooby Newbie
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Wolverhampton
On a side note....
It's so refreshing to see a chap of just 19 with his head screwed on. The usual questions from one so young are.... "I want 400bhp, whats the cheapest way" or "who makes the loudest dump valve and how much power will it give me"...etc etc etc.....
OP,
In my humble opinion. ......
The newage WRX and STI are two very different cars which appeal to two different markets. The WRX offers slightly above average performance for not alot of money. They go ok'ish, are a little soft around the edges but can be had for little money. They cost less to run and are a little more civilised to drive so if its an everyday car you need with a little bit of poke then maybe a WRX is the best bet. They really aren't that inspiring in standard trim to be honest but throw a grand at one and they can be pretty good. If heavy modding is on the horizon (upward of 350bhp) then the WRX probably isn't the best starting point.
The STI is the better car in standard trim. They handle better, they look better, they stop better and they go better. But then you'd expect that because they cost almost double. They cost more to run and they aren't quite as comfortable but at 19 I very much doubt you are concerned with comfort....lol... Plus, with not much money they can see a comfortable 400bhp and be quite a weapon. So if you plan on keeping it for sometime then an STI is a good choice because at some point you'll start modding, we all do.
My concern is as I said in an earlier post, insurance. At 19 an STI will be awfully expensive to insure. And no doubt a modified WRX will be similarly awful.
I do believe however that the Prodrive Performance Package is recognised by insurers and doesn't quite hurt the pocket as much. So maybe a WRX with the PPP fitted will be a great stepping stone while you wait until an STI is insurable at a relatively decent price. I'll also imagine minor things like thicker anti roll bars and better springs will not effect the policy but will dramatically transform the car. These coupled with the extra horse power from the PPP may well be enough to keep you entertained for a couple of years.
And my final point is you need experience driving cars like these. I'm not being condescending but at 19 you've got a lot to learn. Sometimes jumping in at the deep end doesn't end well and not only will a slightly lesser car aid your driving education it will also aid your insurance premiums in the future.
But what do I know. I've had both a newage WRX and a newage JDM STI and hated both. Hence why I own the best impreza ever produced, a classic STI RA :-)
It's so refreshing to see a chap of just 19 with his head screwed on. The usual questions from one so young are.... "I want 400bhp, whats the cheapest way" or "who makes the loudest dump valve and how much power will it give me"...etc etc etc.....
OP,
In my humble opinion. ......
The newage WRX and STI are two very different cars which appeal to two different markets. The WRX offers slightly above average performance for not alot of money. They go ok'ish, are a little soft around the edges but can be had for little money. They cost less to run and are a little more civilised to drive so if its an everyday car you need with a little bit of poke then maybe a WRX is the best bet. They really aren't that inspiring in standard trim to be honest but throw a grand at one and they can be pretty good. If heavy modding is on the horizon (upward of 350bhp) then the WRX probably isn't the best starting point.
The STI is the better car in standard trim. They handle better, they look better, they stop better and they go better. But then you'd expect that because they cost almost double. They cost more to run and they aren't quite as comfortable but at 19 I very much doubt you are concerned with comfort....lol... Plus, with not much money they can see a comfortable 400bhp and be quite a weapon. So if you plan on keeping it for sometime then an STI is a good choice because at some point you'll start modding, we all do.
My concern is as I said in an earlier post, insurance. At 19 an STI will be awfully expensive to insure. And no doubt a modified WRX will be similarly awful.
I do believe however that the Prodrive Performance Package is recognised by insurers and doesn't quite hurt the pocket as much. So maybe a WRX with the PPP fitted will be a great stepping stone while you wait until an STI is insurable at a relatively decent price. I'll also imagine minor things like thicker anti roll bars and better springs will not effect the policy but will dramatically transform the car. These coupled with the extra horse power from the PPP may well be enough to keep you entertained for a couple of years.
And my final point is you need experience driving cars like these. I'm not being condescending but at 19 you've got a lot to learn. Sometimes jumping in at the deep end doesn't end well and not only will a slightly lesser car aid your driving education it will also aid your insurance premiums in the future.
But what do I know. I've had both a newage WRX and a newage JDM STI and hated both. Hence why I own the best impreza ever produced, a classic STI RA :-)
Insurance has always been a factor with what car I choose, the WRX is expensive to insure at the moment but should decrease when I come to renew in the beginning of next year. Thus making insurance companies more willing to accept some modifications
I'm not chasing numbers, I just want a fun, reliable daily that can put a smile on my face for the odd occasions where I take it out just to drive.
Again thanks everyone for their opinions, I'm now going to start looking at what ARB's and links to get.
Cheers,
Webby
02 December 2014 | 02:08 PM
#160
I would go with that to start off, as you say it doesn't inspire confidence and the rear end feels unstable, both statements that I don't agree with, I would suggest there may be something amiss with your cars set up.
02 December 2014 | 02:17 PM
#161
Scooby Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 19
From: Wakefield
I appreciate that. I know that I don't have much experience and that I am most likely the inhibiting factor in regards to a car's performance, but the stock WRX isn't confidence inspiring. The heavy understear and the unstable rear make me less likely to push the car any harder.
Insurance has always been a factor with what car I choose, the WRX is expensive to insure at the moment but should decrease when I come to renew in the beginning of next year. Thus making insurance companies more willing to accept some modifications
I'm not chasing numbers, I just want a fun, reliable daily that can put a smile on my face for the odd occasions where I take it out just to drive.
Again thanks everyone for their opinions, I'm now going to start looking at what ARB's and links to get.
Cheers,
Webby
Insurance has always been a factor with what car I choose, the WRX is expensive to insure at the moment but should decrease when I come to renew in the beginning of next year. Thus making insurance companies more willing to accept some modifications
I'm not chasing numbers, I just want a fun, reliable daily that can put a smile on my face for the odd occasions where I take it out just to drive.
Again thanks everyone for their opinions, I'm now going to start looking at what ARB's and links to get.
Cheers,
Webby
03 December 2014 | 07:40 AM
#164
Scooby Regular
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,179
Likes: 264
From: www.bbscoobys.com
03 December 2014 | 02:43 PM
#165
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iTrader: (5)
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
It seems you're maybe cockblocked by insurance. You're running the risk of ruining a "hero" car to yourself.
I'd be tempted to spend a couple more years driving some hot hatches as the modern ones will perform better than a stock wrx anyway. The specialist insurers that advertise on this site respond well to a steadily ramped up history of performance cars.
My STi stock blew my old civic type R with LSD out of the water, but I can honestly say that I've vastly improved the car further with about £1k spent on chassis mods, so they're still a way under their reasonable potential when bought standard.
Good luck, it seems you have got a sensible head so you'll be right.
I'd be tempted to spend a couple more years driving some hot hatches as the modern ones will perform better than a stock wrx anyway. The specialist insurers that advertise on this site respond well to a steadily ramped up history of performance cars.
My STi stock blew my old civic type R with LSD out of the water, but I can honestly say that I've vastly improved the car further with about £1k spent on chassis mods, so they're still a way under their reasonable potential when bought standard.
Good luck, it seems you have got a sensible head so you'll be right.
05 December 2014 | 08:36 AM
#166
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iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,029
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From: Somewhere in Kent, sniffing some V-Power
It seems you're maybe cockblocked by insurance. You're running the risk of ruining a "hero" car to yourself.
I'd be tempted to spend a couple more years driving some hot hatches as the modern ones will perform better than a stock wrx anyway. The specialist insurers that advertise on this site respond well to a steadily ramped up history of performance cars.
My STi stock blew my old civic type R with LSD out of the water, but I can honestly say that I've vastly improved the car further with about £1k spent on chassis mods, so they're still a way under their reasonable potential when bought standard.
Good luck, it seems you have got a sensible head so you'll be right.
I'd be tempted to spend a couple more years driving some hot hatches as the modern ones will perform better than a stock wrx anyway. The specialist insurers that advertise on this site respond well to a steadily ramped up history of performance cars.
My STi stock blew my old civic type R with LSD out of the water, but I can honestly say that I've vastly improved the car further with about £1k spent on chassis mods, so they're still a way under their reasonable potential when bought standard.
Good luck, it seems you have got a sensible head so you'll be right.
I've driven a civic type r that I tried was only good at 7000rpm and up the Clio 182 was a massive let down.
05 December 2014 | 08:58 AM
#167
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 23,118
Likes: 150
From: Notts
Which modern hot hatches (that he can get insured on) out perform a wrx? Really, I'd like to know ? 0-60mpg in 6 seconds? 145mph top speed? 220lb/ft of torque? 4wd?
I've driven a civic type r that I tried was only good at 7000rpm and up the Clio 182 was a massive let down.
I've driven a civic type r that I tried was only good at 7000rpm and up the Clio 182 was a massive let down.
05 December 2014 | 12:46 PM
#169
Which modern hot hatches (that he can get insured on) out perform a wrx? Really, I'd like to know ? 0-60mpg in 6 seconds? 145mph top speed? 220lb/ft of torque? 4wd?
I've driven a civic type r that I tried was only good at 7000rpm and up the Clio 182 was a massive let down.
I've driven a civic type r that I tried was only good at 7000rpm and up the Clio 182 was a massive let down.
its a far superior performance car than a wrx and aprt from the initial launch of the line much faster.
id agree the type r is crap due to lack of torque but handles great
05 December 2014 | 01:20 PM
#170
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 355
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From: Dorset, UK
05 December 2014 | 01:36 PM
#171
05 December 2014 | 01:37 PM
#172
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 19
From: Wakefield
The 03-05 WRX is only quick if you launch at over 4k or drop down a gear before pursuit, many a time I've not been on the revs and been left by cars a lot slower on paper than a Type R or Clio.
I think the Bug WRX has much shorter ratios but don't quote me. Hawk has shorter ratios and more torque.
I can imaging driving all 3 Newage WRX variants is quite a different experience.
I think the Bug WRX has much shorter ratios but don't quote me. Hawk has shorter ratios and more torque.
I can imaging driving all 3 Newage WRX variants is quite a different experience.
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