I wouldn't advise or recommend to use anything what is called MBC,with MBC you will never have proper control which ECU can offers you

I usually would go route of VAG cable and modify this cable for Subaru which can be done quite cheaply,if not then OpenPort 2.0 is best option for you there

107k is not high,our wagon when we are did rebuild has have close to 100k,only on two pistons we are run lower compression,nothing serious,but I think LPG has been main issue for this,but still car has made 350bhp on VF34

STi bottom end should be OK for yours needs,but still if you are paying such money,I would want JDM short block,would be bit better than this,but agree how is it

If budget allows then I would add ARP headstuds and better rods(K1 rods can be bought for very nice price)

Thanks,Jura

 

I would say your engine spec will be fine for what you're planning. I wouldn't go above 350/360 on a 20.L with WRX heads unless you enjoy nothing below 4k rpm then a big push to 7k rpm and the fuel bills that will go with it due to ragging the **** of it to get anywhere. You'll need more displacement, avcs or twinscroll and a host of other parts if you plan on pushing any further, then there's the large dollop of mechanical sympathy that will be required for the gearbox, which kind of defeats the object.

Sweet spot on a non avcs or non twinscroll 20.L is 330/350bhp max especially with a 5 speed, you'll out run much bigger bhp cars up to 100/120mph ish in the real world and use a lot less fuel while your doing it, if you pick the right turbo.

 

Just to clarify what I am supplying-
205 open deck rear thrust block
STI crossdrilled std size crank
STI V8 rods
STI V8 pistons
acl race bearings
new 11mm oil pump
new rings
new front and rear seals
oil pickup and sump fitted ready for heads etc to be fitted
All the parts will be cleaned, checked for size, crank polished, bearing clearances checked, bores honed and checked for size, rings gapped, piston to bores clearances checked. I will also cc the block and advise on the correct headgaskets to keep the cr as the original engine.
Personally I don't think there is a better option for the money, it will be easily strong enough for the spec and much better than anything second hand, which is always going to be a 'leap of faith'.

 

Interesting, so a small turbo making boost low down to give you good drivability as boost will be made lower. Yet this yields better mpg than a bigger turbo and making no boost? I thought the richer AFR with the smaller turbo always in boost would have a greater effect on consumption? My 16g is 12:1 AFR anything above atmo, I try to be very gentle with it as I find fuel consumption at 12:1 is not great.

 

Sounds like a well put together middle end.
The crank, block, rods and pistons are all second hand though yes?
Didn't realise it was an OBD I thought it was getting an STI bottom end, ie SCDB?
What difference does the STI (not v8?) crank have over a WRX/NA one?
Do you run increased bearing clearances with the 11mm pump? What are the bearing clearances 👍🚙🔥🔥🔥🔥
Edit; by second hand you mean an engine not freshly rebuilt, I agree this is always a concearn, you defiantly need to see inside it!

 

Andy has just put photos of build into email to me , I will post them shortly , think i have to upgrade my subscription , time I did that.

Simon (r.i.p) and I worked on the 4 and 5th gear up and down the old A1 near Pontefract , we ended up with the twin map on 98 octane to hold 1.2 bar , but he also gave me the 1.4 top revs on the second map based on previous experience TD05, his main comment was "we will have to optimise again at surrey RR when you come back on 102 octane." This interested him as he wanted to know how the big TMIC would deal with the extra boost and octane. Im not actually convinced that my choice of turbo or the TMIC is as wise as I first thought for spool , as the volume is huge. Overall Size: 20"x11.5"x4.5"Core, 2.75" Inlet & Outlet
Intercooler+Y Pipe Kit For SUBARU WRX/STI 02-07 but Simon at least grinned at it and said was capable of keeping charge temps well down and allow me to push the TD05 B 16G.

For comparision the WRX IC is just16"x11.5"x 2.5"
CRX part Translates to 2.5 ltr internal volume verses 1.2 liter WRX

 

MBC oh how right you are !!

I also don't think the 107 k is a problem ,

I have guys over here with over 200 k miles on them, while I was in Sub4you I met an owner with a PPP265 bhp WRX 250 k on first engine, even mine previously used almost no oil Basically I changed oil to top line and drove till bottom line, gave me between 3-5 k oil changes.

Obviously Closed deck is nice , Last week I found a EJ207 long engine for 1350 but Im still left not knowing its history. So I figured spend 1k for the Sti build , from someone who seems to get thumbs up on here. Then get my hands on my own engine and look at my WRX heads , Previous builds on CVH fords I have always used stretch head bolts , however for Subaru's ? ARP 'studs ?? what spec is important here , what should I look out for ?

LPG ? Can you run a turbo WRX on this ?? Tell me more.

 

I'm sorry mate, but it doesn't;

 

Andy , do have at this if you wish . I can post the Plastigauge photo's

 

What size TD05 is that ?

 

Std TD05H 16g I believe. Good power, however 1.2 bar at 6500 redline, I propose 1.5-1.6 bar at a 7000rpm redline.

 

Hmm , I thought "ragging" it not the best idea. Heat / fuel bill etc.
course your fine for 1/4 mile you don't care do you.

Dytch raised the heads breathing as a restriction , while you have them off , how about doing a bit on flow ? I used to do alot on NA's and for Mini/Ford CVH you certainly had to do it to get any decent power out.

All these RR graphs are showing top end restriction 6500-7 k so it seems to me like a bit of cleaning up radius would help keep the boost lower and yet extend the power curve for longer.

I don't see anyone getting deep into this here, done any yourself ?

 

I'm not one for flowing heads etc, very easy to get wrong and go the opposite way.
Maybe there are some gains to be had, research required perhaps? Be quick cos my heads are getting bolted on soon!

 

Also the CVH and A series were both terrible engines!

 

Agreed The A series was not an engine
It was a gear box with pistons in it most of the time.

 

More revs = more fuel which is why a WRX with a 5 speed does 8/10mpg more than an STI.

The point I was trying to make is it's not all about the numbers, bigger turbos take longer to spool and need to be higher up the rev range, so to make it perform you'll need to drop a cog and rev it or it will just not go anywhere and be as flat as a pancake below 3.5/4k rpm, by which time a smaller turbo will be well on it's way especially with the 5 speed.

I don't claim to be an expert in mapping etc, but I do drive and have owned several Subarus, IMO your better off with a smaller turbo and 330bhp ish on a WRX than trying to make circa 400+ sounds nice down the pub but not my idea of a good road car.

But hey what do I care, not my car or money.

 

I know exactly what your saying. I've had a few really big turbos in my time 👍🐌

 

Here we go with the bottom end , Andy has provided these today.

 

[QUOTE=wms-racing;11596949]Just to clarify what I am supplying-
205 open deck rear thrust block
STI crossdrilled std size crank
STI V8 rods
STI V8 pistons
acl race bearings
new 11mm oil pump
new rings
new front and rear seals
oil pickup and sump fitted ready for heads etc to be fitted
All the parts will be cleaned, checked for size, crank polished, bearing clearances checked, bores honed and checked for size, rings gapped, piston to bores clearances checked. I will also cc the block and advise on the correct headgaskets to keep the cr as the original engine.
QUOTE]

No figures to this, youre all bold enough to poke him.

 

It does now

That RR chart was with a seriously leaking manifold to up pipe gasket. I can pull some RomRaider logs on it if you want?

And yes its an OEM TD05 16G with a machined front entry compressor housing on it and my car has a 7200rpm limter, it wasn't run up fully on the dyno because something was obviously wrong.

I'll get it back on the rollers now the map is correct (I had it re-tuned last week).

 

Didn't mean to sound obtuse, (having re-read) I just think for the op taking into consideration everything he has said, he would be better off not pushing the envelope.

Your situation is different, as shown by your project thread. I'm sure you'll have fun trying to find the right turbo to go with your Audi gearbox.

At the end of the day it all depends on what you consider to be a fun drivable car for what you personally enjoy.

 

Pls do post the new Graph

Although yours is a 2.1 stroker Its interesting to me as Id like to see what boost level it will hold at least to 6500.

You also mention a "machined housing" , mine had a nasty lip on the inside of the housing , I smoothed that out to reduce turbulence.

 

You don't come accross as obtuse to me mate, I enjoy the discussion and sometimes enjoy playing devils advocate 👍

 

Good stuff, I'm amazed that a wee turbo like that provides so much boost all the way to 7k, must pull very well indeed.

 

It's very good, its quicker than the same set up was on the 2.0.

Duncan who mapped it was very impressed.

 

Crank looks very similar to mine 😃

 

Andy just got back to me , it will be ready tomorrow. CR came out at 8.1 assuming use of std gasket 0.6mm ,

As the WRX is supposed to be 8.2 , I don't
think I will worry about that small difference.

 

Hi there

MBC you are really don't need on New Age,those MBC are used on the ECU which can't control boost,but in most cases are available option which people can go,but most people think MBC is good way forward for cheap

WRX engines are pretty good,although everything depends how you take care of the engine and how you treat engine

Yes agree with used engines you don't know history and don't know if engine will last,that's the biggest minus against buying used engine

WRX heads are pretty useless beyond 6k RPM,I would have look on older V6 STI heads which are very popular on the WRX as upgrade when AVCS heads are not good choice from point of wiring and ECU

ARP headstuds are good if you are thinking to run bit more boost and they have better clamping than OE spec,but if you are take then STI headstuds are pretty good and ARP headstuds seems are good upgrade,if you are not looking to run beyond 2.0bar

LPG on the WRX or any Subaru you can run,don't expect you will have better MPG,yours MPG will be very similar,just price for filling up will be cheaper and usually with LPG yours MPG will be slightly higher

You can buy whole kit for reasonable money,just wiring can be problematic,but shouldn't be any issue and I would keep eye on the water temperature,car on LPG can run bit hotter than on normal fuel,due this I would keep eye on temperatures like oil and water

Second bit advice,I would have look on the Electronic Flash lube kit,normal Vacuum Flash lube kit doesn't work on Subaru,its bit expensive than normal,as you know LPG entering the engine is very dry and this can damage the engine and can pose other dangers on the engine side

Hope this help

Thanks,Jura

 

Quote "WRX heads are pretty useless beyond 6k RPM,I would have look on older V6 STI heads which are very popular on the WRX as upgrade when AVCS heads are not good choice from point of wiring and ECU"


Hi Jura , This is interesting.

I might well add the V6 sti to the block WMSracing has prepared for me and just do the big end on the original WRX repair keeping that engine as spare for eventual re-sale with the car.

Also I live just 400 yards from a LPG fiiting shop , its 58 cents per liter here. I will have word with them , 4 years ago I had good LPG experience
with them as they added a Prins system to my 530i . I have since sold the car but I did 75 k on it without issue. I just thought that turbos were not advisable for LPG.

I wish I had never fitted the MBC, it was my impatience as the Kinguwa actuator was stuck in customs. Its cost me 6 months off the road and well over 1 k. You live and learn.

 

Hi there

WRX are OK if you are not looking go beyond 400bhp,just don't expect from them miracles

Yes V6 STI heads should be good upgrade on yours if budget allows,not sure how much they cost right now,but they should be straight swap on yours

Yes LPG can be good saver on the wallet and on petrol bills,should be no problem then for you,if you are live so near...

On turbo cars you can use LPG,but as I said,I would have look on Flash Lube kit which will helps to lubricate valve seats and doesn't cause premature wear if you will be running without

Sometimes is good to wait,but who knows this will happen,I know few friends which running on their cars MBC without the issue for several months,some friends running MBC now years and nothing happened

Thanks,Jura