Martin2005

I think you are delusional and cannot back up a single point in your post with anything even remotely resembling a fact.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Great response, you obviously know sweet FA hence the response. If you don't know whats going on in the world how can I take you seriously. Go google it ...to many chavs on here and there main source of information is the DM!

Martin2005

Are those your facts? If so then we should stop this discussion right now, because there's just no way I can argue against google and a willful anti-logic

PS isn't Google one of those evil US corporations?

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Ok I agree with you, and as you have such a wealth of knowledge what is your opinion on why we are still in the middle east and why we are trying to destabilise the region?

Carnut

Thats bull ****.

ScoobyWon't

Between who? Muslims and muslims? Muslims and Europeans? Muslims and christians? Muslims and Russians? Yugoslavia's break up?

Following the Slovenian and Croatian secessions from the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in 1991, the multi-ethnic Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which was inhabited by Muslim Bosniaks (44 percent), Orthodox Serbs (31 percent) and Catholic Croats (17 percent). I seem to remember they had a slight misunderstanding between the lot of them.

9/11 was in which year before 1991?

bonesetter

iTrader: (9)

Don't bother. You're banging you're head against a wall. Although a third here have voted 'No' and if this poll was on a global level that figure would much higher. The more vocal naysayers here are are in a minority, there's not many left who believe the official 9/11 story

Here's an eyewitness account from a NY firefighter who lost the lives of fellow firefighters. THose guys work on the edge are like a band of brothers, which comes through


You're of course bang on re the Middle East.

Understanding the Middle East is crucial to understanding world events.

Where can you begin attempting to discussing such a huge subject as the world is actually not what most people think it is??

?

?

neil-h

I never said I believed it I've just read around the subject and am aware of the arguments put forward.

Personally i'd be surprised if 9/11 was a government op but I can see why would think otherwise.

Martin2005

I think you need to try answer the question of who plotted 9/11, how many were involved, and how come they've all managed to keep it quiet for so long?

If you can back those questions up with something approaching fact and logic, then I'm all ears.

jonc

That's not possible with conspiracy theorist when they have such distrust and skepticism that common sense, the workings of science, empirical evidence and critical thinking goes out the window and imagination takes over.

hodgy0_2

I think they simply conflate two issues

that the rich and powerful (whether individuals, organisations or countries) are able to bend events to their advantage, to either gain more power/control or simply money is a simple fact.

but that in itself is not evidence of a conspiracy - that's just the way the world works, and we see it working like this on a daily basis - it is nothing new

we know this because 1% of the world owns more wealth than 99% of the rest (according to Oxfam)

neil-h

You're forgetting the second (and most important) part of a conspiracy theory. It is only a theory, so the application of fact/logic isn't entirely necessary or indeed in some cases carried out at all (hence shape shifting lizard overlords and Elvis' secret bunker under Graceland which he shares with Princess Diana and Hitler).

Now for your first point. Lets assume hypothetically that it was a US government op. To maintain plausible deniability, the president would have kept out of the loop. So the decision would have come from one of the joint chiefs and they would most likely have a black ops group who would ultimately carry out the attack.

Something of the scale of a 9/11 attack would most likely be kept completely off the record. So any potential leak would have to come from someone directly involved and if you keep the number of people involved to a minimum, keep track of everyone involved (to ensure secrecy of course) shouldn't be difficult.

Geezer

Of course. part of the peddling of conspiracy madness is to try and persuade people they are in the majority, when in fact, they are in the minority. Poll after poll shows that the majority of people either think it's Al Qaeda, or don't know. The Al Qaeda vote on its own accounts for just under 50%, US govt, less than 15. Harldy convincing is it? If you split don't know fairly, give half to each camp, then Al Qaeda is still the majority viewpoint for the perpertators of 9/11.

They want to believe it was the US govt, so no matter how many facts, debunks etc. you present them with, they move on to the next thing, and so it goes. I'm willing to bet that the conspiritards in this thread also believe we didn't go to the Moon!

davyboy

Has there ever been the case of a conspiracy theory being proved to be correct?

Geezer

That's an interesting question. Not to my knowledge. Things the government have done have been uncovered, but I don't believe someone else was blamed first. It's a totally different thing.

davyboy

A quick google and the watergate scandal was an attempted cover up.

hodgy0_2

without wishing to debate the why's and wherefors of the minors strike

the NUM always accused McGregor (brought in by the conservative government) to head the National Coal Board, of conspiring with the government in the events leading up to and during the miners strike - this was always vehemently denied by the goverment

I believe subsequent letters that have been released under the 30 year rule seem to suggest their was some truth in that "conspiracy" theory

hodgy0_2

the Left always accused the US of conspiring to help the Contras in El Salvador (and Pinochet in Chile)

the exposing of the secret "conspiracy" of the Iran-Contra affair proved them right

hodgy0_2

the link between smoking and cancer (and asbestos for that matter)

the science had been pretty much done and dusted by the 70's - but the Tobacco companies conspired to deny it up until 2000 - they the simply moved onto passive smoking

they were always accused of running a conspiracy between them - and they did

Turbohot

That's why I don't reject the right of any human to look for 'other than known' explanations, but there should be some brain invested in the process. It's when some try to prove their defeated conspiracy bullsh7t with no substance in it, it becomes the invisible garment that the king did wear.

SetoN

Although technically, as pointed out already, that’s not true. I will add some credibility to this statement.

I started secondary school in 1997 and had a Pakistani lad in my class. We knew he was Pakistani because the majority of lads played cricket and we had a lot of Pakistan v England banter.

In the days following Sept 11th in 2001, after 4 years of being in the same class day after day, I remember someone asking him if he was a Muslim.

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

Hillsborough I believe.

gary77

iTrader: (1)

a list of people who may have been killed to cover up the truth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqVD4aFWZ4#t=346

someone asked how they can keep there secrets


i dont expect to be able to change anyones opinions on what they believe to be the truth, some people will believe the goverment and mainstream media and others will ask questions and look a bit deeper

there are no answers just lots of questions

zip106

*may* have...

gary77

iTrader: (1)

yes may have . i dont have any conclusive evidence . and hope i never do , if that list really is what it appears to be

c_maguire

The results of this poll say more about the gullibility/stupidity of people posting on here than they do about anything else.

hodgy0_2

what if I told you that video is total boll0x

what if I told you everything that the video says about Barry Jennings is wrong

he did not say any of those things, how do we know this, because he was interviewed for a BBC documentary about WTC 7 - and said so

he saw no bodies, he said there was NO "explosion" etc etc everything he said corroborated the generally accepted theories - he was categorically not a truther

what if I told you that if you take any event that touched 1000's of people, statistically you will always be able to come up with a list of deaths from people who were there, some even suspicious

you would not believe me, the BBC or him (Barry Jennings) you believe some crackpot on youtube

gary77

iTrader: (1)

I will probably look into Barry Jennings at some time,

I'm willing to accept you could be right but also that you might be wrong.
And no I don't believe everything is fact on you tube or mainstream media.that's why I said may have been killed not have been

hodgy0_2

if there was any cover up around 9 11 will be to protect/hide the fact that maybe there was sufficient intelligence to piece it all together if all the US agencies had been working together properly - but hindsight is 20/20

maybe, between the FBI/CIA/NSA/Foreign Office/State department they should have spotted the plot - but we know that even within organisations you have power struggles, people withholding information from colleagues for their own personal career advancement - to move up the greasy pole, that's just simple human nature, that's how people behave

and we absolutely know that there was no love lost between all these agencies, the FBI hated the CIA, the State Department hated the CIA - see "Plamegate" - they were all competing for federal dollars

maybe after the event their was a push to suppress some embarrassing evidence that might have shown they were asleep on the Job

an email from a junior to a senior CIA agent, suggesting they look at flight training - who knows, would it be plausible that this was hushed - sure, simple human nature to avoid embarrassment


but the central narrative is clear, planes were flown into the buildings by Saudi based hijackers, a combinations of the damage from the planes and structural weakness cause by the subsequent fires brought down the towers

gary77

iTrader: (1)

What would you say if I told you I just watched a video interview of Barry Jennings saying he heard many explosions and had to step over bodies