Turbohot

Realisation might be there, but it certainly takes a huge amount of strength and understanding to accept a suicide.

And yes, when some are unable to rest their mind, then the pain of that unrest could be much bigger to them in compare to taking their own life. Also, we all have different thresholds for pain. Such thresholds are not necessarily related to the hardwiring. Putting everything to hardwiring is a cop out what some professionals seem to do. There could be many factors affecting this threshold, and those may be helped if shared.

You, as a farmer yourself, present a valid occupational reason for why farmers feel so burnt out and downhearted. This occupation needs much attention in terms of physical wellbeing and mental health.

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

Thats awful.

I am not male however I have been to that dark place where you can see no where out and taking your life is the only answer you can see. However I feel blessed I am still here and that is soley down to my partner.

He was my best friend at the time (we were not a couple) and I have to say he saved me.

I was horrible to him at the time, pushed him away many many times but he kept at me and wasn't put off by me telling him where to go. I don't know if I would be here right now but to have someone there who cared and would listen to me day or night and not judge bought me back from that very dark place.

Turbohot is right. We mustn't ignore this and its very important to listen and not judge.

I don't know what I would have done without my partner.

I fully believed he saved my life and although now we are going through a really crap time, having him there or anyone to listen and talk things through is gold dust.

Sorry to hear what happened turbohot.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Had a good friend of my best mate (girl) do it 20 odd years ago and saw up close what it did to him, i'd only met her once or twice, seemingly everything to live for, extremely rich (Abramovich style) good looking, great personality, absolute bag of fun to be around but just totally screwed up underneath, shows you can have everything yet nothing makes you feel good inside.

Also had a girl I know (again friend of friends) out here jump off the local "favourite" jumpers bridge a few months back.

As if that wasn't enough, some old bloke (know who he is but not connected) in a village I drive through to get to the main road blew his head off with a shotgun because of health and mental problems, How ******* great for his son to come back off working nights at the local power station to find his dad spread all over the room, that in it'self is reason enough not to do it and to make someone want to take their own life.

It's an extremely selfish act and I have seen the aftermath a few times over the years, some close and some not so close, with the ripple effect of others doing the same as well or just being totally destroyed by it, life is bad enough for us all at times without having to deal with that.

I get that some are disturbed at that point but don't get how they can do that to their loved ones.

EddScott

When you are feeling depressed, it can consume you and you do become very selfish in as much as it doesn't matter who is in your life or who is there to support you, the feelings are so self consuming you just don't have the mental capacity to consider what it would do to those around you.

Since my wife passed away late 2013, I've tried to fill the void with new relationships and have dealt with them very badly. I got into a relationship very soon after she passed which ended just before Christmas and spent that period of almost 2 weeks on my own with my two children. It was torture - not because of my children but because every time a relationship fails it feels like I'm losing that person in the same way as my wife. I entered into another relationship just after new year which again, I handled badly and that ended last week.

I would say last Thursday I had what would clinically be termed as a nervous breakdown. It was by chance I bumped into the MacMillan nurse who handled our case and she only had to look at me to see something was very wrong. She was that worried she arranged an emergency appointment with the GP and I wasn't to be left on my own over the weekend. I haven't slept properly in months and have eaten less and less and the weight loss has become quite obvious.

I didn't accept the offers of counselling at the time because I thought I was OK having filled the void left by my wife by another partner. I've avoided building my own life on my own with my children because I just didn't want to face up to being alone. I was asked about suicide and although I've thought about it, its never been in a serious manner - purely because I can't leave my children without any parents.

The point of this post is really to agree that if you're struggling to cope there is help. I have my first session tomorrow and although I know it's not going to be some magic bullet and it's all going to go away the hope is that I will get the support I need to realise I can deal with life, work, children, being who I am without being too critical of my failings.

Turbohot

Me too, Lou.

Strangely enough I watched an impactful and educational film on suicide only on Wednesday 11th, in between my work hours, in my office. Thinking about it, I also happened to talk about that Polish movie here on the Film thread on 12th, I think. Then, after just over four hours' nightmare-ish sleep, I woke up to get ready for work when I saw the aftermath through my window, with the officials involved to clear the scene. I guessed someone had died, but didn't know who and how. It was the day when one chronic alcoholic neighbour of ours yet a fantastic man with a lovely heart was getting buried after his sudden death, so things were a bit damp, anyway. I found out when a neighbour texted me at work that a man about 30 hanged himself on a tree in the middle of our locality, the tree that is right at the back of his family house and where we populate the area with our houses. Just a normal walking path on the other side of the road. I couldn't believe it, as there are plenty of woods around us in this semi-rural location, but this young man had chosen to hang himself on the road side in a built up, lived-in area, at the crack of dawn.

Some neighbours who were waking up around the same time and the ones leaving early for work or to walk the dog saw much more than I did, especially the ones who called the ambulance etc. They are traumatised. We wish that we were awake a bit earlier that morning, so that we could have stopped him from doing what he did.

I can see that tree through my window, and more so when I'm about to drive out and I now see that tree with some flowers at its base; the tree that the cats climbed to have their play and to chase birds, under which the neighbours sometimes sat on a bench, for a chinwag on a sunny day.

Location, in this case, is an issue when you look at the mass impact, but the bigger and the most concerning issue is the suicide itself.

Some say that he wanted to be found and perhaps saved, and that could be the reason why he chose to do it in the middle of the houses, and did it at such hours when early morning work people could be driving past. Some say that his mind would have been made up, as he fetched the step ladder from his house and kicked it. Whatever it is, he isn't there any more for his family and friends. I do hope for his family to come to terms with this. Must be so difficult for them.

Good to know that you got the support you needed from your good gentleman through your dark phase, and so good to know that you're ok.

Turbohot

It certainly feels like a selfish act from where everyone else is sitting. But I suppose someone has to be feeling so lonely and disconnected, or so impulse-driven or so ecstatic to do something like that. I added 'ecstatic' because taking maximum control upon one's life and destiny can be highly pleasurable, and suicide can be the way to do it, for some. Some may be completely out of touch with reality, and all the three former states of mind can also fall under that.

Aftermath for the survivors of a sudden suicide or suicides is dreadful. Ripple effects are devastating, and the wounds are so difficult to heal; due to presence of the absence of a lot of unknown and not understood. Planned and socially agreed suicides i.e. euthanasia may be more acceptable when people understand that one is better off dead than alive, with all that unbearable and non-treatable pain.

Good on you for accepting some help. Ed. Remember that the pain of this sort may reach its peak, but it does go away. Good on you for realising that your children need you, your care and your affection. When partners let you down, children are your driving force. Take it easy, and things will only get better, remember.

ScoobLou

iTrader: (21)

You are doing the right thing. I had to go to counciling but it was definately the best decision I made.

Not going to say it will be easy as it wasn't for me, its a slow and painful path but made me realise there is hope and I am now on the slow road to recovery but I know I woudn't have able to get to this point on my own.

I really hope tomorrow goes ok for you.

magepaster

iTrader: (2)

I have suffered with depression for most of my life, I'll be 50 in June, and have had two very serious attempts on my life as well as a couple of cries for help.
The serious tries were overdosing and hanging. I have a history of self harming.

Lately I have been very low and have been thinking that the world would be better off with me dead. I was recently conned out of a lot of money by my daughter who has since broken off contact and disapeared. I spent my chilhood being severely abused which has led to the depression as well as PTSD. I am struggling to cope with both of those diagnosis as well as my physical health worsening.

I won't drone on but I will say that for myself and others death can be so inviting it is hard to resist.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Reading some of these posts is a little overwhelming, but at the same time the honesty coming out is inspiring.
I'm sure there are plenty of people reading this and deciding not to be just as honest, and in fact I wrote a long reply yesterday and decided against hitting send.

JTaylor

Some brutally honest posts; well done for having the courage to share! My prayers are with all those who have suffered loss and who are suffering themselves. Keep on keeping on!

Turbohot

magepaster, your downhearted script carries a powerful and spirited message for others with similar experiences to open up, hopefully ease their pain in the process, and continue to live on. A pain expressed and shared is a pain halved, and sometimes even relieved. What a great purpose to live it can be. Live on to inspire others to live on. Best wishes, and and I hope you realise your worth.



Brendan Hughes

It's a point that might be pedantic or significant, but there is a movement to stop using the verb "committed" suicide (unfortunately no satisfactory replacement yet); this is a hangover from when suicide was a crime up until 1961, and a sin in the eyes of the Church. On one or two major news sites, editorial guidelines ask to avoid it. Still slips through though.

Good luck out there.

Turbohot

You're right there.

That's the reason why I say that someone has 'done' suicide. 'Do' instead of 'commit' may not be the best replacement for the verb, but it's better that referring as an act 'committed'.

Ellie*

One of the main problems is the shockingly underfunded mental health service.
Childrens services (camhs) has improved greatly, everyone else is pretty much screwed or enters the postcode lottery-if theyre lucky.
Most are left to struggle on with substandard 'help'.
People can be permenantly signed off from work for years and still not get any useful treatment for the condition.
And then there are certain conditions that means nobody really wants to help you because its too complex for them to want to bother with.

I do agree, suicide can be extremely selfish. But i also know what its like to regularly feel like you need to end your life. Its tough.
I guess my warped thoughts actually save me here because i dont even value myself enough to place ending my suffering as being worth the suffering others would then have to go through as a result.



Counselling can be really helpful though.
As can the samaritans.

EddScott

Had my first session yesterday and she quickly worked out that my low self value has gone into overdrive since losing my wife - hence needing to fill the void rather than actually attempting to make friends - with myself. So I get that entirely.

She asked me about suicide and it's not actually life I don't like, it's me. All relationships need work occasionally, even the relationship within yourself.

lozgti1

Depression is an awful,awful thing ☹

Good luck Ed and everyone else

Turbohot

Yes, but people need not let their depression defeat them. It's not easy, but challenge yourself. Talk to the ones you can trust, engage with your surrounding, get medical help, make use of helplines, engage in face-to-face therapy with a professional; whatever you can do. Give self a chance to open up and a lot of people will see that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. People needn't give up on life. Even if your depression is up and down on the continuum as something that you feel as non-recoverable, it can still become manageable if you talk about it. 'You' encompasses all the men as well as women, children, adolescents, middle-aged and older people that get affected by depression, although this thread focuses on men due to high rate of suicide in them.

Turbohot

That ^ is not warped. That is very thoughtful of you. A suicide by a depressive will cause depression among the ones left behind, which can go on as a dysfunction in generation after generation. In some communities it's used as an escape rather than facing up to the challenges of life, where it has become subcultural. Look at Piehole's posts on this thread which should make people think of the aftermath post aftermath.

I admire you for putting others first before yourself, Ellie.

lozgti1

I would never,ever put my children through it

They keep me going

mrtheedge2u2

I suffer from suicidal ideation from time to time, quiet a bit actually, and have done from the age of 13014. In the past did make an attempt at suicide. Talking really does help and a decent life insurance policy is in place so that my misses is taken care of if things go wrong.

hodgy0_2

Totally agree with all the "keep, keeping on" sentiments - and some honest and moving posts here

Ellie*

Well done on the first session. Its never easy but its worth sticking at.
And yes, i totally get that. I think the relationship you have with yourself is the most important, and sometimes the hardest. Was talking about self acceptance today actually. Ive spent 10years going to ridiculous lengths to destroy and punish myself, sabotage anything good etc, a lot due to self hatred.
Good luck with the counselling.

Aww thank you kindly.

Ellie*

Yes.
Thats pretty much it. Keep on keeping on. I live by that now.

Turbohot

That's the way, Lozsti1.

The ones who don't have kids or family must not feel alone either, for we all have a purpose to create a meaning for our being. That very purpose is to live on, no matter what. Enhance that purpose by extending your hand to someone else. Talk to someone to tell how you are, and ask someone how they are. Don't suffer in isolation.

BTW, the young man who hanged himself in our village on 13th Feb morning was not even 30. he was only 26. My kids knew him, as he went to the same school as theirs. What a waste, and what a trauma for his family and close friends.