Underwhelmed by the M3
17 April 2015, 10:40 AM
#31
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I've owned both too (e46 M3 and a few Subarus, Hawkeye 380bhp, and classics standard) and here's the truth of the matter above.
The M3 feels slower, it's more refined / solid, Subaru feels quicker as it's a much more raw experience, paper thin metal, cheap plastic. The M3 feels like it's built to be a brilliant car, every element feels considered, solid, well built. The Subaru feels like it's built to go as quick as it can, light, nimble, fast.
An M3 would leave a Subaru behind, I'm sure of it, but who would have the most fun I think the Subaru driver for sure.
They're very different beasts, and I love both. Ideally I'd have an M3 for the week, Subaru for the weekend.
Or maybe I'd just have an RS4, or a Porsche Turbo, or an C63 AMG, or another Type RA, or V1 Legacy Turbo, or a...
The M3 feels slower, it's more refined / solid, Subaru feels quicker as it's a much more raw experience, paper thin metal, cheap plastic. The M3 feels like it's built to be a brilliant car, every element feels considered, solid, well built. The Subaru feels like it's built to go as quick as it can, light, nimble, fast.
An M3 would leave a Subaru behind, I'm sure of it, but who would have the most fun I think the Subaru driver for sure.
They're very different beasts, and I love both. Ideally I'd have an M3 for the week, Subaru for the weekend.
Or maybe I'd just have an RS4, or a Porsche Turbo, or an C63 AMG, or another Type RA, or V1 Legacy Turbo, or a...
17 April 2015, 11:05 AM
#32
- are you done? Your thesaurus must be worn out son. For someone who doesn't want to discuss anything, that's one hell of a post. I literally havent bothered reading half of it.
Anyway whatever you said, irrelevant, crack on with your chav mobile matey, i'll stick with my M
17 April 2015, 11:43 AM
#34
Built motor with a gt30 vs standard M3. Not standard vs standard. I'm not bigging up the M3 but it's in a class above an Impreza. Anybody that thinks otherwise is wrong.
Bang for buck you can't beat the Impreza, that's why I'll stick with JDM Blob running 400bhp for now.
Bang for buck you can't beat the Impreza, that's why I'll stick with JDM Blob running 400bhp for now.
17 April 2015, 11:50 AM
#35
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Having owned multiple scoobs and m3's, currently an E92 M3 DCT, i'll just say the following.
1. On a test drive, you're never going to get anywhere close to the limit in terms of handling, so you havent in any way even begun to experience what the M3 does. It took me a good 6 months to build up the confidence and get to know the car to push the envelope and without any shadow of a doubt, the M3 is a phenominally good handling car. And yes, much better than a scoob unless it's had a shed load of money spent on it.
2. Everyone gets caught up in the whole "it's an M3" - "it must be super fast" - it's not about that, yes it's quick, mine is low 4s to 60 with the DCT, hardly a slouch, but it's not about that for me. It's about that big V8, the noise, the handling, it's an experience, a V8 singing at 9k rpm is something else compared to a 4 pot turbo.
3. Yes it has 414bhp, but its also a big car, so of course its power to weight is going to make it suffer in comparison to the scoob.
To be fair, i just chopped in the JDM Hawk at 360bhp and in 1st, quick, 2nd, quick - 3rd and on, ****e. Absolutely ****e.
M3, 1st, quick, 2nd, quick, 3rd, quick, 4th, quick... you get the picture.
They're completely different cars, i'd take the M3 any day of the week, and if you're constantly racing M3's and "showing them a clean set of heels" you really just look like a tosser in a chav mobile.
Each to their own though!
Are you "deluded" in thinking that your "heavily modded wrx" can hang with an M3? No, absolutely not. But, heavily modify anything and it can "hang" with an m3, heavily modify an M3 and it can hang with lambos.
It's just a ridiculous on-going cycle of "my heavily modded car" MIGHT be as quick as a standard car. Who cares?
Buy what you want, drive what you want, and stop comparing dick sizes. You still drive a chav mobile, and i still drive car thats seen as driven by *****. Doesnt bother me and shouldnt bother you.
1. On a test drive, you're never going to get anywhere close to the limit in terms of handling, so you havent in any way even begun to experience what the M3 does. It took me a good 6 months to build up the confidence and get to know the car to push the envelope and without any shadow of a doubt, the M3 is a phenominally good handling car. And yes, much better than a scoob unless it's had a shed load of money spent on it.
2. Everyone gets caught up in the whole "it's an M3" - "it must be super fast" - it's not about that, yes it's quick, mine is low 4s to 60 with the DCT, hardly a slouch, but it's not about that for me. It's about that big V8, the noise, the handling, it's an experience, a V8 singing at 9k rpm is something else compared to a 4 pot turbo.
3. Yes it has 414bhp, but its also a big car, so of course its power to weight is going to make it suffer in comparison to the scoob.
To be fair, i just chopped in the JDM Hawk at 360bhp and in 1st, quick, 2nd, quick - 3rd and on, ****e. Absolutely ****e.
M3, 1st, quick, 2nd, quick, 3rd, quick, 4th, quick... you get the picture.
They're completely different cars, i'd take the M3 any day of the week, and if you're constantly racing M3's and "showing them a clean set of heels" you really just look like a tosser in a chav mobile.
Each to their own though!
Are you "deluded" in thinking that your "heavily modded wrx" can hang with an M3? No, absolutely not. But, heavily modify anything and it can "hang" with an m3, heavily modify an M3 and it can hang with lambos.
It's just a ridiculous on-going cycle of "my heavily modded car" MIGHT be as quick as a standard car. Who cares?
Buy what you want, drive what you want, and stop comparing dick sizes. You still drive a chav mobile, and i still drive car thats seen as driven by *****. Doesnt bother me and shouldnt bother you.
Biggest problem with tuning an M3 is it aint cheap by any stretch. Looked at doing it and only real option for a decent power gain is supercharging, that is not cheap by any stretch. With a start price of 18k and then 6+ to super charge it by the time you have bought the kit and had it fitted you can get a much higher performance car cheaper going subaru.
As you i've been down M3 and subaru route and tbh subaru is more fun and better performing low down the speedo, which is much more usable on UK roads.
17 April 2015, 11:52 AM
#36
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IF i wanted a fast comfy car, M3 would be my choice, but for now ill also stick with my JDM Hatch
17 April 2015, 12:03 PM
#39
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M3s are okay if you want a quick car but something that you can use as a daily driver and have the best of both worlds.
Imprezas are for people who want a raw, fun driving experience.
Problem is a lot of people who like cars a bit but are not realy much if an enthusiast buy Imprezas thinking they are like most other 'sporty' cars but infact dont like the real rawness of them. These people should stick to the M3s
17 April 2015, 12:04 PM
#40
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17 April 2015, 12:07 PM
#41
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I genuinely thought i'd been forum assaulted by Shakespeare.
As has been said, 2 completely different cars, dont know why OP has got his knickers in a twist.
I actually agree completely that the scoob is MUCH more useable day to day in terms of power delivery, the M3 you have to ring its neck being a n/a v8, but it's very rewarding and you cant beat it singing away at 9k. The reason i went back to an M3 is because i'm a bit of a girl and like my big leather seats and the comfort, toys, gadgets, etc. For my day to day commute i wasn't man enough to put up with the scoob rawness.
Stock vs Stock, the M3 (primarily the E92) is in a different league altogether from a STI, nevermind a WRX.
I'm sick of hearing the whole "massively modded vs stock" debate, you can make a nova beat a veyron if you're willing to chuck enough cash at it ffs.
In terms of the M3 specifically, i wouldnt even consider supercharging, even ESS M3's running 600hp are doing 11s 1/4 miles, they're just not a fast car in a straight line, on the bends what they were made for is where they shine, i've genuinely never driven a better STOCK car that handles as well as the M3 does out the box, it's made for it. They're not a drag car. They're a drivers car.
Anyway, i shan't rant on any longer, i'll end up sounding like the OP.
As has been said, 2 completely different cars, dont know why OP has got his knickers in a twist.
I actually agree completely that the scoob is MUCH more useable day to day in terms of power delivery, the M3 you have to ring its neck being a n/a v8, but it's very rewarding and you cant beat it singing away at 9k. The reason i went back to an M3 is because i'm a bit of a girl and like my big leather seats and the comfort, toys, gadgets, etc. For my day to day commute i wasn't man enough to put up with the scoob rawness.
Stock vs Stock, the M3 (primarily the E92) is in a different league altogether from a STI, nevermind a WRX.
I'm sick of hearing the whole "massively modded vs stock" debate, you can make a nova beat a veyron if you're willing to chuck enough cash at it ffs.
In terms of the M3 specifically, i wouldnt even consider supercharging, even ESS M3's running 600hp are doing 11s 1/4 miles, they're just not a fast car in a straight line, on the bends what they were made for is where they shine, i've genuinely never driven a better STOCK car that handles as well as the M3 does out the box, it's made for it. They're not a drag car. They're a drivers car.
Anyway, i shan't rant on any longer, i'll end up sounding like the OP.
Last edited by mestonian; 17 April 2015 at 12:08 PM.
17 April 2015, 12:29 PM
#42
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I genuinely thought i'd been forum assaulted by Shakespeare.
As has been said, 2 completely different cars, dont know why OP has got his knickers in a twist.
I actually agree completely that the scoob is MUCH more useable day to day in terms of power delivery, the M3 you have to ring its neck being a n/a v8, but it's very rewarding and you cant beat it singing away at 9k. The reason i went back to an M3 is because i'm a bit of a girl and like my big leather seats and the comfort, toys, gadgets, etc. For my day to day commute i wasn't man enough to put up with the scoob rawness.
Stock vs Stock, the M3 (primarily the E92) is in a different league altogether from a STI, nevermind a WRX.
I'm sick of hearing the whole "massively modded vs stock" debate, you can make a nova beat a veyron if you're willing to chuck enough cash at it ffs.
In terms of the M3 specifically, i wouldnt even consider supercharging, even ESS M3's running 600hp are doing 11s 1/4 miles, they're just not a fast car in a straight line, on the bends what they were made for is where they shine, i've genuinely never driven a better STOCK car that handles as well as the M3 does out the box, it's made for it. They're not a drag car. They're a drivers car.
Anyway, i shan't rant on any longer, i'll end up sounding like the OP.
As has been said, 2 completely different cars, dont know why OP has got his knickers in a twist.
I actually agree completely that the scoob is MUCH more useable day to day in terms of power delivery, the M3 you have to ring its neck being a n/a v8, but it's very rewarding and you cant beat it singing away at 9k. The reason i went back to an M3 is because i'm a bit of a girl and like my big leather seats and the comfort, toys, gadgets, etc. For my day to day commute i wasn't man enough to put up with the scoob rawness.
Stock vs Stock, the M3 (primarily the E92) is in a different league altogether from a STI, nevermind a WRX.
I'm sick of hearing the whole "massively modded vs stock" debate, you can make a nova beat a veyron if you're willing to chuck enough cash at it ffs.
In terms of the M3 specifically, i wouldnt even consider supercharging, even ESS M3's running 600hp are doing 11s 1/4 miles, they're just not a fast car in a straight line, on the bends what they were made for is where they shine, i've genuinely never driven a better STOCK car that handles as well as the M3 does out the box, it's made for it. They're not a drag car. They're a drivers car.
Anyway, i shan't rant on any longer, i'll end up sounding like the OP.
Dry road, straight line and there will be only one outcome though lol
17 April 2015, 12:42 PM
#44
interesting read if anyone is interested, Turbo charged E46 M3
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showth...ighlight=turbo
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showth...ighlight=turbo
17 April 2015, 12:46 PM
#45
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bit of plumbers mastic is all you need
M3 is very easy to super charge, complete bolt on ess kit is about 5-6k depending on what kit you go for, typicly defined but what supercharge comes with it, bigger charger, bigger cost.
Kit just bolts on new manifold, supercharger and associated brackets and pipes, flash the ecu for the fuel, smg settings if its smg and away you go
M3 is very easy to super charge, complete bolt on ess kit is about 5-6k depending on what kit you go for, typicly defined but what supercharge comes with it, bigger charger, bigger cost.
Kit just bolts on new manifold, supercharger and associated brackets and pipes, flash the ecu for the fuel, smg settings if its smg and away you go
17 April 2015, 01:20 PM
#46
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bit of plumbers mastic is all you need
M3 is very easy to super charge, complete bolt on ess kit is about 5-6k depending on what kit you go for, typicly defined but what supercharge comes with it, bigger charger, bigger cost.
Kit just bolts on new manifold, supercharger and associated brackets and pipes, flash the ecu for the fuel, smg settings if its smg and away you go
M3 is very easy to super charge, complete bolt on ess kit is about 5-6k depending on what kit you go for, typicly defined but what supercharge comes with it, bigger charger, bigger cost.
Kit just bolts on new manifold, supercharger and associated brackets and pipes, flash the ecu for the fuel, smg settings if its smg and away you go
I had a play with an E46 supercharged on the m1 the other week, few pulls from 50mph - 100ish, he left me sitting each time. I didnt get my knickers in a twist though, end of the day its once again the modded vs stock thing, there are tons of cars out there quicker than the M3, as i say its just not a straight line quick car (yes its fast, but in comparison to modded scoobs, lancers, etc, it's not upto legal speeds, yeah above the m3 would pass with ease, but otherwise, it's just a fast car like any other), it's just the perfect package for me as an individual which is all that should matter really.
OP needs to calm down with his WRX bumming, wrx are a good worthy car and certainly no slouch, but no, they're nothing in comparison to an M3, so please, do everyone a favour and swallow that bitter pill.
17 April 2015, 01:20 PM
#47
I think the 'modified vs stock' argument is a good one if comparing different kinds of cars that cost different amounts.
What's a stock E92 cost these days.... £25K ish ???
With that 25K you could buy a 15k spec c and throw 10k at it.
Which would be the better 'drivers' car then .?.
Stock vs stock then ofcourse, the M3 will be the better car. But why wouldn't it be, it costs far far more than a similar aged impreza.
What's a stock E92 cost these days.... £25K ish ???
With that 25K you could buy a 15k spec c and throw 10k at it.
Which would be the better 'drivers' car then .?.
Stock vs stock then ofcourse, the M3 will be the better car. But why wouldn't it be, it costs far far more than a similar aged impreza.
17 April 2015, 01:25 PM
#48
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I think the 'modified vs stock' argument is a good one if comparing different kinds of cars that cost different amounts.
What's a stock E92 cost these days.... £25K ish ???
With that 25K you could buy a 15k spec c and throw 10k at it.
Which would be the better 'drivers' car then .?.
Stock vs stock then ofcourse, the M3 will be the better car. But why wouldn't it be, it costs far far more than a similar aged impreza.
What's a stock E92 cost these days.... £25K ish ???
With that 25K you could buy a 15k spec c and throw 10k at it.
Which would be the better 'drivers' car then .?.
Stock vs stock then ofcourse, the M3 will be the better car. But why wouldn't it be, it costs far far more than a similar aged impreza.
Of course, you could buy a 5k corsa and throw 30k at it and it'll mince up lambos. But....
You still have a 5k corsa.
Anyway, throw 10k at a spec c and it'll still rattle
Last edited by mestonian; 17 April 2015 at 01:27 PM.
17 April 2015, 02:00 PM
#49
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Yeah, mine cost me £26k with DCT and every single upgrade including harmon kardon. Not bad considering the original price 4 years ago.
Of course, you could buy a 5k corsa and throw 30k at it and it'll mince up lambos. But....
You still have a 5k corsa.
Anyway, throw 10k at a spec c and it'll still rattle
Of course, you could buy a 5k corsa and throw 30k at it and it'll mince up lambos. But....
You still have a 5k corsa.
Anyway, throw 10k at a spec c and it'll still rattle
17 April 2015, 02:30 PM
#50
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Irrespective of whose right or wrong, love the retort. 
Don't think comparing standard to mod is fair. I could buy a £1K classic, shove £5K into the engine and destroy most things on the road. Might not last that long mind
Only M3 I would want is the Saloon which I think is gorgeous but I like a big boot and as no M3 Touring exists (as such) my heart is "almost" set on an RS4 Avant whether its dull or not - I'm dull so we'll get on well
In actual fact, I'm probably going to go with the JDM weekender and another oil burner Audi for the week
Don't think comparing standard to mod is fair. I could buy a £1K classic, shove £5K into the engine and destroy most things on the road. Might not last that long mind
Only M3 I would want is the Saloon which I think is gorgeous but I like a big boot and as no M3 Touring exists (as such) my heart is "almost" set on an RS4 Avant whether its dull or not - I'm dull so we'll get on well
In actual fact, I'm probably going to go with the JDM weekender and another oil burner Audi for the week
Last edited by EddScott; 17 April 2015 at 02:32 PM.
17 April 2015, 02:42 PM
#51
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Irrespective of whose right or wrong, love the retort.
Don't think comparing standard to mod is fair. I could buy a £1K classic, shove £5K into the engine and destroy most things on the road. Might not last that long mind
Only M3 I would want is the Saloon which I think is gorgeous but I like a big boot and as no M3 Touring exists (as such) my heart is "almost" set on an RS4 Avant whether its dull or not - I'm dull so we'll get on well
In actual fact, I'm probably going to go with the JDM weekender and another oil burner Audi for the week
Don't think comparing standard to mod is fair. I could buy a £1K classic, shove £5K into the engine and destroy most things on the road. Might not last that long mind
Only M3 I would want is the Saloon which I think is gorgeous but I like a big boot and as no M3 Touring exists (as such) my heart is "almost" set on an RS4 Avant whether its dull or not - I'm dull so we'll get on well
In actual fact, I'm probably going to go with the JDM weekender and another oil burner Audi for the week
He loves his WRX, that's all that matters
The RS4 is a great car, don't get me wrong, but the 4WD just makes it so safe, in a way. Sure, if you like that sort of thing it's a fantastic car, goes well (ish) and sounds brilliant.
17 April 2015, 04:07 PM
#52
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RS4's are stunning cars. And at least you dont meet another 5 of them everytime you get to the traffic lights, unlike the M3. They are so common its almost as if they were giving them away free in The Sun !
17 April 2015, 04:21 PM
#53
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RS4's on the other hand, i know of tons, they're about as rare around here as astras, but living close to bradford its not surprising they're everywhere
If you do see so many more M3's, probably for a reason, much superior car to the RS4.
And if you havent had an RS4, i can see why it's easy to say they're "stunning" - i thought the same - buy one, see how bored you are after a fortnight
Last edited by mestonian; 17 April 2015 at 04:24 PM.
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17 April 2015, 05:49 PM
#54
Let's not forget how much these cars cost. You are talking about a car that costs twice the price of the other. Ofcourse the M3 is going to be a nicer place to be for Christ's sake. Just like a Bentley is a nicer place to be than the M3, but again the Bentley is twice the price of the M3.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
17 April 2015, 06:10 PM
#55
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Let's not forget how much these cars cost. You are talking about a car that costs twice the price of the other. Ofcourse the M3 is going to be a nicer place to be for Christ's sake. Just like a Bentley is a nicer place to be than the M3, but again the Bentley is twice the price of the M3.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
17 April 2015, 06:12 PM
#56
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Strange, must just be like that your way. I see literally NO e92 m3's around my area, lots of e46 m3's yes, but no e92's, infact i know of only mine and one other older bloke with a red one.
RS4's on the other hand, i know of tons, they're about as rare around here as astras, but living close to bradford its not surprising they're everywhere
If you do see so many more M3's, probably for a reason, much superior car to the RS4.
And if you havent had an RS4, i can see why it's easy to say they're "stunning" - i thought the same - buy one, see how bored you are after a fortnight
RS4's on the other hand, i know of tons, they're about as rare around here as astras, but living close to bradford its not surprising they're everywhere
If you do see so many more M3's, probably for a reason, much superior car to the RS4.
And if you havent had an RS4, i can see why it's easy to say they're "stunning" - i thought the same - buy one, see how bored you are after a fortnight
Im not saying M3s are no good, they are great cars, look great drive great etc etc but they really are designed for the businessman who 'quite likes cars sometimes' to use as an everyday car. Quick and fun but dead easy to drive.
Thats how i see it anyway, but i admit they are a lovely place to be inside. BUT so are most half decent new cars now days.
The RS4 i have never owned but have had them in at work and driven them and they are lovely! Granted it was only the occasional drive. And TBH id prefer an impreza over one anyday as well.
Oh btw im not just an Impreza fanboy, im a fanboy of fun hardcore jap cars. Give me a well built high powered RX7 over anything! Now thats a car that would scare M3 owners haha.
17 April 2015, 06:17 PM
#57
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17 April 2015, 06:33 PM
#58
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Let's not forget how much these cars cost. You are talking about a car that costs twice the price of the other. Ofcourse the M3 is going to be a nicer place to be for Christ's sake. Just like a Bentley is a nicer place to be than the M3, but again the Bentley is twice the price of the M3.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
But is a brand new M3/4 twice as good as a new STI because they cost twice the price ??
My pal owns a new M4, while it really is a nice car inside and out I'm not sure it's worth the extra 30 grand over a new STI.
1. On a test drive, you arent going to experience any car properly. Who drove home from collecting their car like they did on a test drive? No-one i bet.
2. They're completely different cars in almost every way, and really arent there to be compared.
3. The modded vs stock is irrelevant unless you're purely interested in the financials, yes a 10k car can be faster than a 100k car, but does that mean someone who buys a lambo would want a tanked up corsa just because its quicker? No.
I personally arent that fussed what's quicker than me because ive bought whats right for me day to day. Hell, if i had the money i'd be floating around in an aventador and still, there would be 30k highly modded cars quicker than me, i again wouldnt care less.
As for the new M4, it's a nice car, the only thing missing is the big V8/V10 up front because of all the f**king tree hugger do gooders. Yeah its quick, but sounds pants and doesnt feel like an M when in one (in my opinion).
I was surprised to learn you can pick bentley continentals up for the same price as my M3 - although it's a bit erm, "boaty" for my liking, still for a big car they move.
I wonder if a heavily modded wrx could stick with a big bentley?..... let's not......
Last edited by mestonian; 17 April 2015 at 06:37 PM.
17 April 2015, 06:45 PM
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I had a B7 RS4 for 2yrs. Great car, but let down by DRC (daft suspension) and I never felt 100% throwing it around corners.
I traded in for a new 2012 M3 coupe with competition pack. I loved that car and went to the 'ring twice in it.
Last yr I traded for a new M4. If it's torque you want then this certainly ticks the box. I miss some aspects of the M3 but love the M4. Although it's tricky to drive quickly in the wet.
Nick
I traded in for a new 2012 M3 coupe with competition pack. I loved that car and went to the 'ring twice in it.
Last yr I traded for a new M4. If it's torque you want then this certainly ticks the box. I miss some aspects of the M3 but love the M4. Although it's tricky to drive quickly in the wet.
Nick
