View Poll Results: Vote now!
Conservatives
37
26.81%
Labour
23
16.67%
UKIP
62
44.93%
Liberal Democrats
2
1.45%
SNP
6
4.35%
Green Party
5
3.62%
Plaid Cymru
1
0.72%
Other
2
1.45%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll
General election poll
09 May 2015, 11:51 AM
#541
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Basically you have this.
Leeds North (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
Leeds East (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds South (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds West (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
TOTAL:
UKIP 76,000 - 0 seats
Cons 42,000 - 2 seats
Lab 42,000 - 2 seats
Basically the People of Leeds want UKIP to Govern but they've given the oppositions priority due to the tactical voting that the FPTP system is vulnerable to.
It's not voting for the manifesto's you prefer but voting to keep certain Parties out. If you don't feel it needs reform to give Libs/Greens/UKIP a fair crack then you are 1 dumb ***** ****a.
Leeds North (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
Leeds East (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds South (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds West (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
TOTAL:
UKIP 76,000 - 0 seats
Cons 42,000 - 2 seats
Lab 42,000 - 2 seats
Basically the People of Leeds want UKIP to Govern but they've given the oppositions priority due to the tactical voting that the FPTP system is vulnerable to.
It's not voting for the manifesto's you prefer but voting to keep certain Parties out. If you don't feel it needs reform to give Libs/Greens/UKIP a fair crack then you are 1 dumb ***** ****a.
09 May 2015, 11:55 AM
#542
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McBride is a spin doctor. He has asked a cryptic question of the same level in return. That's his way of saying- "David, sadly your brother wasn't a hit. Are you going to come back and pick up the pieces to rebuild it all, darling? That's because we don't have any one else as suitable as you, at this moment of time."
Basically, McBride has opened the doors for David. David may enter it, or he may not. We shall see.
I wonder if McBride is in touch with 'the bloke with a laptop and a bit of mouth' at all, who may consider, for what we know. Let me be less cryptic. His name is Russell Brand.
Basically, McBride has opened the doors for David. David may enter it, or he may not. We shall see.
I wonder if McBride is in touch with 'the bloke with a laptop and a bit of mouth' at all, who may consider, for what we know. Let me be less cryptic. His name is Russell Brand.
Last edited by Turbohot; 09 May 2015 at 12:09 PM.
09 May 2015, 01:26 PM
#546
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Thread Starter
7,000,000+ voters of Lab/Greens/UKIP are represented by 10 seats
1,000,000+ voters of SNP are represented by 56 seats
Basically geographical location and tactical voting is ****ting on unity and democracy. It's shouldn't be allowed.
1,000,000+ voters of SNP are represented by 56 seats
Basically geographical location and tactical voting is ****ting on unity and democracy. It's shouldn't be allowed.
09 May 2015, 01:32 PM
#547
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
That was before the Greens/UKIP rose significantly and Lib Dems slipped dramatically though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody knew just how much protection FPTP gave the big two parties.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281
The demand will grow folks, Farage has been the biggest influence in Politics for donkeys years.
Last edited by RS_Matt; 09 May 2015 at 01:40 PM.
09 May 2015, 01:52 PM
#548
Scooby Regular
Basically you have this.
Leeds North (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
Leeds East (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds South (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds West (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
TOTAL:
UKIP 76,000 - 0 seats
Cons 42,000 - 2 seats
Lab 42,000 - 2 seats
Basically the People of Leeds want UKIP to Govern but they've given the oppositions priority due to the tactical voting that the FPTP system is vulnerable to.
It's not voting for the manifesto's you prefer but voting to keep certain Parties out. If you don't feel it needs reform to give Libs/Greens/UKIP a fair crack then you are 1 dumb ***** ****a.
Leeds North (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
Leeds East (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds South (Destitute)
Lab 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Cons 1,000
Leeds West (Affluent)
Cons 20,000
UKIP 19,000
Lab 1,000
TOTAL:
UKIP 76,000 - 0 seats
Cons 42,000 - 2 seats
Lab 42,000 - 2 seats
Basically the People of Leeds want UKIP to Govern but they've given the oppositions priority due to the tactical voting that the FPTP system is vulnerable to.
It's not voting for the manifesto's you prefer but voting to keep certain Parties out. If you don't feel it needs reform to give Libs/Greens/UKIP a fair crack then you are 1 dumb ***** ****a.
Just take me through your post
Where it states UKIP got twice as many votes
Just focus on that
09 May 2015, 02:04 PM
#549
That was before the Greens/UKIP rose significantly and Lib Dems slipped dramatically though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody knew just how much protection FPTP gave the big two parties.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281
The demand will grow folks, Farage has been the biggest influence in Politics for donkeys years.
09 May 2015, 03:44 PM
#550
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Social democrats wanted see pr , that was decades back when Shirley Williams was pretty young thing...
I voted for them
I voted for them
Last edited by dpb; 09 May 2015 at 03:50 PM.
09 May 2015, 04:05 PM
#553
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I see Warren sneaked in the side entrance , carefully avoiding the main theme ,
looks like he's legged it already ..
looks like he's legged it already ..
Last edited by dpb; 09 May 2015 at 06:59 PM.
09 May 2015, 04:40 PM
#554
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
The LibDems have always wanted PR long before UKIP and the Greens became prominant. Besides, as mentioned before, the graphs illustrated is based on the votes that was casts. Tatical voting in this election has been widespread in this election. Whilst the current system is unfair for minor parties, under PR the graphs would not necessarily represent the results seen in your link for PR as we have no idea how the electorate will vote when you take tactical voting out of the equation.
That said 1 million votes for UKIP may have been protest votes so I dare say the likely figure maybe about 7-9 million votes. Maybe even more with the higher turnout from PR.
So PR would kill off protest votes, tactical votes and wasted votes and the results would reflect broader societies wishes more accurately.
I'm not sure how PR would effect regional voting patterns, quite frankly I find the terms Labour area/Cons area/SNP area/"Respect area" quite alarming. Maybe PR would dilute the dangerous separatism that non integrated ethnic-minority communities and Nationalism creates...
I gather PR would produce a higher turnout and interest in Politics.
09 May 2015, 04:45 PM
#555
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Luckily the rise of UKIP has destroyed far-right support. The Left don't acknowledge this.
09 May 2015, 06:37 PM
#556
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09 May 2015, 06:52 PM
#557
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So what can I say?! Lots of voters, but no MPs to match. I waited til now because I wanted to have a think about what has happened, and I see the debate has centred around PR. As has been pointed out earlier, we had a chance to change this system only a few years ago and the answer was a clear no. I am of the opinion that was the right answer, even though we suffer for it.
FPTP is the ultimate in democracy, the most popular candidate in that area wins. Its simple and effective. Democracy in some ways isnt fair to the losers, it has been described as the tyranny of the masses. Elections are a series of mini referendums. The scot nats lost the independence referendum and its just tough ****. More people wanted the alternative, you have to just suck it up.
PR pretty much guarantees a series of weak coalitions with back room deals and compromises guaranteed, you will never get a radical change passed in a coalition.
For that and other reasons, I continue to support FPTP, disagree with UKIP on PR and have finished crying into my beer!
Last edited by warrenm2; 09 May 2015 at 07:00 PM.
09 May 2015, 07:12 PM
#558
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Thx for taking such an interest in my thoughts, but I couldn't be bothered to read 4 pages at the time!
So what can I say?! Lots of voters, but no MPs to match. I waited til now because I wanted to have a think about what has happened, and I see the debate has centred around PR. As has been pointed out earlier, we had a chance to change this system only a few years ago and the answer was a clear no. I am of the opinion that was the right answer, even though we suffer for it.
FPTP is the ultimate in democracy, the most popular candidate in that area wins. Its simple and effective. Democracy in some ways isnt fair to the losers, it has been described as the tyranny of the masses. Elections are a series of mini referendums. The scot nats lost the independence referendum and its just tough ****. More people wanted the alternative, you have to just suck it up.
PR pretty much guarantees a series of weak coalitions with back room deals and compromises guaranteed, you will never get a radical change passed in a coalition.
For that and other reasons, I continue to support FPTP, disagree with UKIP on PR and have finished crying into my beer!
So what can I say?! Lots of voters, but no MPs to match. I waited til now because I wanted to have a think about what has happened, and I see the debate has centred around PR. As has been pointed out earlier, we had a chance to change this system only a few years ago and the answer was a clear no. I am of the opinion that was the right answer, even though we suffer for it.
FPTP is the ultimate in democracy, the most popular candidate in that area wins. Its simple and effective. Democracy in some ways isnt fair to the losers, it has been described as the tyranny of the masses. Elections are a series of mini referendums. The scot nats lost the independence referendum and its just tough ****. More people wanted the alternative, you have to just suck it up.
PR pretty much guarantees a series of weak coalitions with back room deals and compromises guaranteed, you will never get a radical change passed in a coalition.
For that and other reasons, I continue to support FPTP, disagree with UKIP on PR and have finished crying into my beer!
How does that even remotely constitute the 'ultimate democracy'?
I totally get the pragmatic argument for FPTP, but we should be a democracy not a 'pragmocracy'.
Last edited by Martin2005; 09 May 2015 at 07:32 PM.
09 May 2015, 08:46 PM
#559
Scooby Regular
The simple fact is no voting system is perfect, all have idiosyncrasies and anomalies
For some people to pretend this is the first time FPTP has thrown up these anomalies is simply farcical - ask any liberal democrat voting in the 90's
PR has some attractive features, but also has anomalies and struggles fit into our constituency based representational model
No one likes a sore loser, and we have the government we desrve, I suspect as in 2010 life is going to get much harder for quite a few people
And correspondingly easier for some
For some people to pretend this is the first time FPTP has thrown up these anomalies is simply farcical - ask any liberal democrat voting in the 90's
PR has some attractive features, but also has anomalies and struggles fit into our constituency based representational model
No one likes a sore loser, and we have the government we desrve, I suspect as in 2010 life is going to get much harder for quite a few people
And correspondingly easier for some
09 May 2015, 09:02 PM
#560
When voting many people vote for their MP who do a lot of work for their constituency who then go on to represent them in the House of Commons. Because of this PR is difficult to implement. How do you get the MP you voted for in your constituency to represent you in Parliament under PR?
10 May 2015, 03:27 PM
#561
Who incepted this witless idea into your pea-sized brain? A Syrian general, a Somali warlord or a Chechen gun runner ? Or are you such a dumb-**** d1ckhead you came to this conclusion yourself?
10 May 2015, 03:35 PM
#562
I've seen some asinine comments on SN in the past few years (unsurprising, I suppose given that it's full of dimwit 'Kippers') but this has to be the most imbecilic post I've read.
Who incepted this witless idea into your pea-sized brain? A Syrian general, a Somali warlord or a Chechen gun runner ? Or are you such a dumb-**** d1ckhead you came to this conclusion yourself?
Who incepted this witless idea into your pea-sized brain? A Syrian general, a Somali warlord or a Chechen gun runner ? Or are you such a dumb-**** d1ckhead you came to this conclusion yourself?
11 May 2015, 02:46 PM
#564
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Oh, well. All done and dusted with!
Tell you what, one person must be seriously p!ssed off today i.e. Boris Johnson. I don't know if any of you remember that a few weeks ago he was asked to comment on Cameron's wish to continue as a party leader for another five years. He couldn't keep his disappointment hidden as his body lingo and his words gave it away. His face was a frustrated picture when he was parking his push bike. I think he would have loved to see his party's government come down. Then he would have liked to become the party leader, to raise it back up again; in the next election. Then he could have become the PM. Now, with another five years with Cameron, he can't be sure if there will be Tories government again.....
Tell you what, one person must be seriously p!ssed off today i.e. Boris Johnson. I don't know if any of you remember that a few weeks ago he was asked to comment on Cameron's wish to continue as a party leader for another five years. He couldn't keep his disappointment hidden as his body lingo and his words gave it away. His face was a frustrated picture when he was parking his push bike. I think he would have loved to see his party's government come down. Then he would have liked to become the party leader, to raise it back up again; in the next election. Then he could have become the PM. Now, with another five years with Cameron, he can't be sure if there will be Tories government again.....
11 May 2015, 04:18 PM
#565
Scooby Regular
Can you see the mistake in that Matt?
The bit that states 3,881,129 is two times (2,415,888 + 1,454,436)
Not to mention the fact that the SNP seats represent 50% of those voting in the constituencies in which they stood, not 4.7%
If UKIP are going to do better next time hopefully they or their supporters will be able to do simple arithmetic by then. And maybe be able to understand a simple map
The bit that states 3,881,129 is two times (2,415,888 + 1,454,436)
Not to mention the fact that the SNP seats represent 50% of those voting in the constituencies in which they stood, not 4.7%
If UKIP are going to do better next time hopefully they or their supporters will be able to do simple arithmetic by then. And maybe be able to understand a simple map
Last edited by Devildog; 11 May 2015 at 04:24 PM. Reason: there are not enough insults in the day for that bunch of idiots
11 May 2015, 05:05 PM
#566
Scooby Regular
Well farage can't even keep his promises when he looses, his resignation 'wasn't accepted' aka, he can claim he resigned but hasn't got too.
What a lying toe rag
What a lying toe rag
11 May 2015, 05:17 PM
#567
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They have no one else in their party, worthy of the leadership. so what can they do.
There goes his family holiday that he hasn't taken since 1993!
11 May 2015, 05:30 PM
#569
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