Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Ok so it's a given that any outgoing trade would be more expensive to the importing country and would come under certain restrictions that we currently don't have. And imports to us obviously the same. Would this make us as a nation look within for products that usually we'd import and perhaps create jobs into the vaccuum of which may be lost?

It's certainly not as clear cut as just being in or not.

jonc

Switzerland had a referendum February of last year to limit immigration and the majority of the electorate voted to set quotas for those allowed into their country opting out of the EU agreement for freedom of movement. This will have implications with existing trade agreements with the EU, the ramifications of which have yet to be fully realised. They also recently unpegged the Swiss Franc with the Euro and caused a collapse in the Swiss stockmarket. But, this just shows that the Swiss are willing to go through the pain of distancing themselves from the EU and obviously see an advantage in doing so. It must be noted, bar the bilateral trade agreements, Switzerland is not an EU member, whilst the UK is and therefore will be more integrated into the EU in terms of trade, immigration, legislative and financial commitments. Like Switzerland, the EU is UK's largest export market and there is trade deficit which means that in theory, the EU relies more on the UK than the UK on EU.

hodgy0_2

yeah, maybe

and yes - not clear cut

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

And it must work to their advantage as I'd imagine they'd be welcomed into the EU with open arms. Ironic that the neutral Swiss have more bollocks than we do, to at least see what life would be like not being in the EU.


Exactly, so I can't see the EU turning us down in a "Switzerland" type trade agreement if we left the EU.
And decision making, us not being a part of it etc, are we involved or dictated to?

I'm neither anti or pro leaving the EU btw.

hodgy0_2

sure - to but be clear, the Swiss like Norway pay for the privilege

so if someone says the we will get all our money back - then we will not have a "Switzerland" type trade agreement"

Martin2005

I'm hopeful that come the day, the UK will not vote for such an act of self-harm as leaving the EU.

The ramifications could be colossal for the economy and for the long-term future of the our union

lozgti1

I want to emigrate to Mauritius

Blimey,scoobynet poll has ukip way,way way in front!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Then again maybe they won't. Scaremongering is about all the pro-EU lobby have left!

PS I presume you meant the EU as leaving the UK would be a bit difficult!

RS_Matt

I had a feeling they may lead, I've made a 3rd poll on a popular prog rock music forum and so far the lead parties are all level.

Martin2005

'Scaremongering'??

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

All this 'the ramifications could be colossal for the economy' crap. Yes they could, but equally they could not. Business has a habit of ignoring politics if it suits them and as long as the UK was to focus on making the conditions for business favourable then who knows? It could be way better than people think.

Martin2005

Which is why I said 'could'

But you agree then, it is a big risk?

The biggest risk is the future of the UK itself; a vote to leave the EU WILL cause some fairly big constitutional issues.

What if (and as current polling shows) the majority of Scots and Welsh vote to stay in the EU? This is going to create a huge headache and possibly precipitate break-up this country.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Of course it is a risk, but it would appear Switzerland has made it work for them.
The question is can we make it work for us?

jonc

Switzerland are nothing like the UK, so we shouldn't compare ourselves with them.

lozgti1

Good watches and chocolate for a start ;-)

Petem95

Some people on here have a very rose-tinted view of the Eu. The entire euro zone is drowning in debt. Debt levels as a percentage of gdp are the highest they've ever been:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11552293/Europes-debt-mountain-just-got-bigger.html

Only head in the sand liberals will think this situation is sustainable. The Eu has just been one massive failed socialist experiment. It should be a trade zone only and countries should govern themselves, control their own boarders, have their own currency, and very importantly control their own interest rates with their own central banks.

One of the main reasons the UK has outperformed Eu counterparts is we didn't go all in and join the euro so could control rates etc, but we've ended up being made to pay billions extra to the Eu as a result of our economy doing better.

Greece will be the first country to leave the Eu, but the project will not survive in its current form.

RS_Matt

It'll just raise the price of Bacon if we leave the EU.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

What are the differences between us and Switzerland, besides geography?. Genuine question.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

First off, if it wasn't clear to you by the end of the Scottish Referendum campaign that the Scots would absolutely not have automatic or fast-tracked entry into the EU if the Yes camp had won, you must have been living under a rock that whole time. Second, leaving aside the fact it's so tenuous an argument it reeks of desperation, if the Scots or Welshies really did begin demanding independence from the UK on the sole basis that we'd left the EU, quite frankly I'd be happy to see the back of them.

Martin2005

'Desparation' really??

Whether you would be 'happy to see the back of them' or not, doesn't really register with me as any kind valid reason to create a constitutional **** storm

jonc

As I mentioned earlier, Switzerland is not part of the EU and the UK is of course and made up of 4 countries. Scotland and Wales have already pledged to stop England forcing the rest of the UK from leaving the EU. They want a separate referendum in each of the countries in Britain, so things are far more complex.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Yep, I'd characterize your prophesying of constitutional Armageddon as exactly that.

Martin2005

It is an INEVITABLE consequence of any UK vote to leave the EU, this isn't scaremongering or desparation, but the most logical outcome, surely you can see that?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

You really do seem to have an astonishing talent for missing the point, so I'll repeat it for you, again. If the Scots or Welsh ever decided (and were allowed) to separate from the rest of the UK, there's absolutely no guarantee they'd be allowed into the EU as independent entities. So honestly, how sure are you that they'd risk membership of one just on the off-chance that they might gain membership of the other, some indeterminate number of years later?

Martin2005

I don't think that it's me that's missing the point.

Go ask the Nationalist what they'd do in such circumstances

RS_Matt

http://may2015.com/category/poll-of-polls/

Survation poll released yesterday show Labour at 29% and UKIP 18%, the tide is turning. Panelbase have UKIP at 17%.

Martin2005

How many seats does your 'cherry picked' poll get UKIP?

jonc

Well Miliband was quick to blame Cameron and jump on the news that HSBC is looking to move out of the UK because of what he says due to the uncertainty of UK's membership of the EU. Actually HSBC are also looking to move back to Hong Kong due to the structual reforms in the UK banking industry that Milliband plans to put in place with the break up of the banks' retail and investment business and the banking levies. Its share price rose 2.5% on the news.

neil-h

Well my postal vote came through this morning and I have to say I'm struggling to find a reason to vote for any of them.

c_maguire

Vote for the monkey with the blue rosette.
I did, and it gave me a warm feeling inside.

He's probably a shoe-in here though, thankfully.