My95 sti ra, remapped (simtek) & picked up today, disappointing figures or not????
13 September 2015, 10:15 PM
#31
Ok, whatever you say. 
P.S; My forged V3 Type R with a VF34 actually made more than 331bhp on standard top mount but I didn't want to stress the gearbox given that the thinking at the time was 350 max, so it would have been unwise to push further, and considering I'd just forked out around £7k on a rebuild,ancillaries,mapping etc, I didn't fancy the gearbox letting go soon after as well.
P.S; My forged V3 Type R with a VF34 actually made more than 331bhp on standard top mount but I didn't want to stress the gearbox given that the thinking at the time was 350 max, so it would have been unwise to push further, and considering I'd just forked out around £7k on a rebuild,ancillaries,mapping etc, I didn't fancy the gearbox letting go soon after as well.
13 September 2015, 10:21 PM
#32
Ok, whatever you say.
P.S; My forged V3 Type R with a VF34 actually made more than 331bhp on standard top mount but I didn't want to stress the gearbox given that the thinking at the time was 350 max, so it would have been unwise to push further, and considering I'd just forked out around £7k on a rebuild,ancillaries,mapping etc, I didn't fancy the gearbox letting go soon after as well.
P.S; My forged V3 Type R with a VF34 actually made more than 331bhp on standard top mount but I didn't want to stress the gearbox given that the thinking at the time was 350 max, so it would have been unwise to push further, and considering I'd just forked out around £7k on a rebuild,ancillaries,mapping etc, I didn't fancy the gearbox letting go soon after as well.
14 September 2015, 07:53 AM
#35
A v3 onwards intercooler will do 330 plus but it will be pretty crap at keeping charge temps down, so you may get 3 decent pulls before the charge temps are sky high and then pootle to let it cool.
Harvey (RIP) did extensive testing and his data said the above, so I would go with a fmic aside from the fact it may net you a little more power due to lower charge temps but it will let you use that power for longer safely.
Harvey (RIP) did extensive testing and his data said the above, so I would go with a fmic aside from the fact it may net you a little more power due to lower charge temps but it will let you use that power for longer safely.
14 September 2015, 08:58 AM
#36
I never had a problem with heat soak when being driven hard, and as above, bigdal got 1bhp more than my set up using a FMIC, but I'll wager he had considerably more lag, which to be fair we would all expect when comparing a VF34 to a TD05.
My point about the FMIC and 400bhp on a classic as we all know, it is folly to try and aim for 400bhp on a classic gearbox if you actually plan on using it and not just showing people your graphs for the purposes of waving your ***** down the pub, and IMO the true SAFE limit IS around 330bhp, which comes from experience of giving my Type R death at this level and the box being in tact.
So with all this taken into account AND the fact that the TD05 is a slower spooling turbo, AND as I already mentioned COST I stand by my statement that that a FMIC is overkill at the level the OP is aiming for, which he said in a previous post, he would be happy with 300bhp.
So AGAIN I'll say Forget about a FMIC on a Classic or ANY Subaru for that matter unless you are aiming for 400bhp + at which point you'll also be wanting to go 6 speed, because you will NOT have a quicker car.
I'll say it again, there is way more to this than big numbers and you'd need to meet a car running some seriously big ones (like banny's) to be running away from my set up as mentioned previously.
My point about the FMIC and 400bhp on a classic as we all know, it is folly to try and aim for 400bhp on a classic gearbox if you actually plan on using it and not just showing people your graphs for the purposes of waving your ***** down the pub, and IMO the true SAFE limit IS around 330bhp, which comes from experience of giving my Type R death at this level and the box being in tact.
So with all this taken into account AND the fact that the TD05 is a slower spooling turbo, AND as I already mentioned COST I stand by my statement that that a FMIC is overkill at the level the OP is aiming for, which he said in a previous post, he would be happy with 300bhp.
So AGAIN I'll say Forget about a FMIC on a Classic or ANY Subaru for that matter unless you are aiming for 400bhp + at which point you'll also be wanting to go 6 speed, because you will NOT have a quicker car.
I'll say it again, there is way more to this than big numbers and you'd need to meet a car running some seriously big ones (like banny's) to be running away from my set up as mentioned previously.
14 September 2015, 09:43 AM
#37
To quote Harvey
The break points as far as I can see:
Ver 1 and 2 cars with slanted intercoolers around 280 bhp.
Ver 3,4,5, and 6 cars by 320 bhp.
WRX New Age around 350 bhp.
STi New Age by 370-380 bhp.
In part it depends what turbo you are using because if you are wringing the neck of the OE turbo or a small turbo you are making more heat than would be the case for a bigger turbo working well within its capability.
When the power exceeds what the intercooler is capable of dealing with efficiently it does not stop producing power but it does create a lot of heat. On an STi 3 intercooler I produced 335 bhp. No big deal but what was a big deal was that the ACT guage only had a scale to 69.9C at that time and it was easy to exceed that air charge temperature.
In excess of 69.9C ACT is a bad thing. Trust me.
An STi 8 TMIC with scoop and undertray is clearly a step ahead of an STi5/6 intercooler.
I have done a lot of work on STi 8 eqipped Classics and a few New Age WRX. There is a case for going front mount on the STi 8 TMIC somewhere around 370-380 bhp subject to the turbo in use.(if you want optimal power output/efficiency)
I am sure that with the right turbo and injectors an STi 8 TMIC could be persuaded to hit 500 bhp. Unfortunately the efficiency of that set up will probably be deteriorating from around 370-380 bhp and while I am sure such a performance could be forced I am sure it would be VERY innefficient.
If you are not measuring ACT and pressure drop across the core you are not in a position to know how well the core is working regardless of whether it is TMIC or FMIC. I have indicated above where I believe the break points are. Beyond these power levels an efficient FMIC will show benefits. Less than these power outputs and there is not really a case for an FMIC.
Until you have monitored charge temperatures on a Subaru with TMIC, you are in the dark and may find some of the very high temperatures hard to believe unless you see them yourself. I believe that a signifigant proportion of Subaru engine failures are because of prolonged high speed running with inefficient TMICs
The guages I refer to stop reading at 69.9C.
On an STi 3 Wagon (335 bhp) not many mods, on a sprint from 0-140mph, the guage is off the clock well before 140mph. On hard cross country driving the guage is similarly off the clock with plenty WOT. Motorway cruising may be 6-12 C over ambient.
With a good FMIC, M-Way cruising may be up to 2 C over ambient and a maximum of 12 c over ambient cross country and I have had 20 C over ambient on a very hot summer day on track at ten tenths for 25 minutes.
The break points as far as I can see:
Ver 1 and 2 cars with slanted intercoolers around 280 bhp.
Ver 3,4,5, and 6 cars by 320 bhp.
WRX New Age around 350 bhp.
STi New Age by 370-380 bhp.
In part it depends what turbo you are using because if you are wringing the neck of the OE turbo or a small turbo you are making more heat than would be the case for a bigger turbo working well within its capability.
When the power exceeds what the intercooler is capable of dealing with efficiently it does not stop producing power but it does create a lot of heat. On an STi 3 intercooler I produced 335 bhp. No big deal but what was a big deal was that the ACT guage only had a scale to 69.9C at that time and it was easy to exceed that air charge temperature.
In excess of 69.9C ACT is a bad thing. Trust me.
An STi 8 TMIC with scoop and undertray is clearly a step ahead of an STi5/6 intercooler.
I have done a lot of work on STi 8 eqipped Classics and a few New Age WRX. There is a case for going front mount on the STi 8 TMIC somewhere around 370-380 bhp subject to the turbo in use.(if you want optimal power output/efficiency)
I am sure that with the right turbo and injectors an STi 8 TMIC could be persuaded to hit 500 bhp. Unfortunately the efficiency of that set up will probably be deteriorating from around 370-380 bhp and while I am sure such a performance could be forced I am sure it would be VERY innefficient.
If you are not measuring ACT and pressure drop across the core you are not in a position to know how well the core is working regardless of whether it is TMIC or FMIC. I have indicated above where I believe the break points are. Beyond these power levels an efficient FMIC will show benefits. Less than these power outputs and there is not really a case for an FMIC.
Until you have monitored charge temperatures on a Subaru with TMIC, you are in the dark and may find some of the very high temperatures hard to believe unless you see them yourself. I believe that a signifigant proportion of Subaru engine failures are because of prolonged high speed running with inefficient TMICs
The guages I refer to stop reading at 69.9C.
On an STi 3 Wagon (335 bhp) not many mods, on a sprint from 0-140mph, the guage is off the clock well before 140mph. On hard cross country driving the guage is similarly off the clock with plenty WOT. Motorway cruising may be 6-12 C over ambient.
With a good FMIC, M-Way cruising may be up to 2 C over ambient and a maximum of 12 c over ambient cross country and I have had 20 C over ambient on a very hot summer day on track at ten tenths for 25 minutes.
Last edited by banny sti; 14 September 2015 at 09:45 AM.
14 September 2015, 10:18 AM
#38
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Yep as stated not chasing figures, don't get me wrong a little bit more would be nice but still being sympathetic towards engine and transmission, my 5 speed has been rebuilt and don't want to deviate from it as I'm more than happy with the way it feels with short ratios etc and besides this was what it was meant to have,
With regards to fmic vs tmic, would it be reasonable to say that if doing track days here and there a fmic would be better suited not for power gains but cooling etc considering the slanty tmic is so small and guessing inefficient,
As before not too bothered by figures bit of fmic would help temps etc this would be a route I could possibly take,
Also the reasoning for my original post was the power I achieved seemed quite low and the opinion of most people seems to be that the turbo shouldn't be that restrictive which was what I was told by the mapper so doesn't quite seem to add up, the mapper didn't mention anything about the tmic being that restrictive too so bit miffed at the moment
With regards to fmic vs tmic, would it be reasonable to say that if doing track days here and there a fmic would be better suited not for power gains but cooling etc considering the slanty tmic is so small and guessing inefficient,
As before not too bothered by figures bit of fmic would help temps etc this would be a route I could possibly take,
Also the reasoning for my original post was the power I achieved seemed quite low and the opinion of most people seems to be that the turbo shouldn't be that restrictive which was what I was told by the mapper so doesn't quite seem to add up, the mapper didn't mention anything about the tmic being that restrictive too so bit miffed at the moment
14 September 2015, 10:58 PM
#43
I think thats Spot on banny 👍
my v3 uk was running a v3 sti tmic and during road mapping jgm (rip)told me drive off the boost to let the heat soak ease , we only ever managed 4 pulls in 3rd before having to let it cool down a bit .
Admittedly it was 25° that day and Simon said he thought it was running about 330hp .
Never got that set up on a dyno but it was enough power to turn my 5 speed into a 4 speed 3 days later 😂
Hence why I'm running a fmic and 6 speed now
I think there was a company that used to make uprated "slanty" tmic (called arc) but how much better they perform or whether they still make them you'll have to research yourself .
I did offer up the v3 sti tmic to the v1 inlet as I liked the idea of having no positive boost pipework but went with a flipped inlet manifold which cut about a mtr of pipework out instead
my v3 uk was running a v3 sti tmic and during road mapping jgm (rip)told me drive off the boost to let the heat soak ease , we only ever managed 4 pulls in 3rd before having to let it cool down a bit .
Admittedly it was 25° that day and Simon said he thought it was running about 330hp .
Never got that set up on a dyno but it was enough power to turn my 5 speed into a 4 speed 3 days later 😂
Hence why I'm running a fmic and 6 speed now
I think there was a company that used to make uprated "slanty" tmic (called arc) but how much better they perform or whether they still make them you'll have to research yourself .
I did offer up the v3 sti tmic to the v1 inlet as I liked the idea of having no positive boost pipework but went with a flipped inlet manifold which cut about a mtr of pipework out instead
14 September 2015, 11:39 PM
#44
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engine is 20 years old, turbo is 20 years old and it doesnt make big power,,, theres a suprise,,,,,
Ok i wrote that a bit sarcy, but theres some truth in it. My type R had 105k on it and was way way down on power. turned out to be heavy wear on the engine and its now in for rebuild. But on an engine 20 years old its expected to have lost some power.
Ok i wrote that a bit sarcy, but theres some truth in it. My type R had 105k on it and was way way down on power. turned out to be heavy wear on the engine and its now in for rebuild. But on an engine 20 years old its expected to have lost some power.
15 September 2015, 06:59 AM
#46
Ok big man, if you also took the time to read the whole thread and take what I'm saying context you might actually add some value, instead of following me around the site making snide comments all the time like a little boy in the playground.
Grow up, I'm not sure who it is your trying to impress, well I am actually, but trying to make yourself look good at other peoples expense just shows me that your a pathetic little boy that hasn't progressed beyond the school playground, but hey that doesn't surprise me considering the company you keep.
If you don't like me, do one and stay clear, I'm sure both our lives will be enriched.
Grow up, I'm not sure who it is your trying to impress, well I am actually, but trying to make yourself look good at other peoples expense just shows me that your a pathetic little boy that hasn't progressed beyond the school playground, but hey that doesn't surprise me considering the company you keep.
If you don't like me, do one and stay clear, I'm sure both our lives will be enriched.
15 September 2015, 07:09 PM
#51
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I think thats Spot on banny 👍
my v3 uk was running a v3 sti tmic and during road mapping jgm (rip)told me drive off the boost to let the heat soak ease , we only ever managed 4 pulls in 3rd before having to let it cool down a bit .
Admittedly it was 25° that day and Simon said he thought it was running about 330hp .
Never got that set up on a dyno but it was enough power to turn my 5 speed into a 4 speed 3 days later 😂
Hence why I'm running a fmic and 6 speed now
I think there was a company that used to make uprated "slanty" tmic (called arc) but how much better they perform or whether they still make them you'll have to research yourself .
I did offer up the v3 sti tmic to the v1 inlet as I liked the idea of having no positive boost pipework but went with a flipped inlet manifold which cut about a mtr of pipework out instead
my v3 uk was running a v3 sti tmic and during road mapping jgm (rip)told me drive off the boost to let the heat soak ease , we only ever managed 4 pulls in 3rd before having to let it cool down a bit .
Admittedly it was 25° that day and Simon said he thought it was running about 330hp .
Never got that set up on a dyno but it was enough power to turn my 5 speed into a 4 speed 3 days later 😂
Hence why I'm running a fmic and 6 speed now
I think there was a company that used to make uprated "slanty" tmic (called arc) but how much better they perform or whether they still make them you'll have to research yourself .
I did offer up the v3 sti tmic to the v1 inlet as I liked the idea of having no positive boost pipework but went with a flipped inlet manifold which cut about a mtr of pipework out instead
Arc did make an uprated slanty tmic which I've had a look into and like you say actually wonder wether there that much of an improvement on oem, besides trying to get hold of one is near impossible as I'm certain they don't make them anymore and hardly come available for sale
15 September 2015, 07:24 PM
#52
Arc did make an uprated slanty tmic which I've had a look into and like you say actually wonder wether there that much of an improvement on oem, besides trying to get hold of one is near impossible as I'm certain they don't make them anymore and hardly come available for sale
15 September 2015, 07:44 PM
#54
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No irony here, and, yes I had thanks. OP has a PH1 car, you have a PH1.5.
Whatever your car made/didn't make is irrelevant, since it's a different phase car.
You can't just bolt on a PH1.5/PH2 TMIC on a PH1 car, because the throttle body sits much further back on a PH1. It's much more cost and time efficent to fit a front mount.
Whatever you say. I don't have 400+ or a 6 speed, but, I have a quicker car than when I had the standard slanty TMIC.
Mate of mine had 440/380 or so in a Type R. Wasn't quicker than mine in a straight line....
Whatever your car made/didn't make is irrelevant, since it's a different phase car.
You can't just bolt on a PH1.5/PH2 TMIC on a PH1 car, because the throttle body sits much further back on a PH1. It's much more cost and time efficent to fit a front mount.
Mate of mine had 440/380 or so in a Type R. Wasn't quicker than mine in a straight line....
15 September 2015, 08:39 PM
#55
No irony here, and, yes I had thanks. OP has a PH1 car, you have a PH1.5.
Whatever your car made/didn't make is irrelevant, since it's a different phase car.
You can't just bolt on a PH1.5/PH2 TMIC on a PH1 car, because the throttle body sits much further back on a PH1. It's much more cost and time efficent to fit a front mount.
Whatever you say. I don't have 400+ or a 6 speed, but, I have a quicker car than when I had the standard slanty TMIC.
Mate of mine had 440/380 or so in a Type R. Wasn't quicker than mine in a straight line....
Whatever your car made/didn't make is irrelevant, since it's a different phase car.
You can't just bolt on a PH1.5/PH2 TMIC on a PH1 car, because the throttle body sits much further back on a PH1. It's much more cost and time efficent to fit a front mount.
Whatever you say. I don't have 400+ or a 6 speed, but, I have a quicker car than when I had the standard slanty TMIC.
Mate of mine had 440/380 or so in a Type R. Wasn't quicker than mine in a straight line....
This is getting funny now.You do realise that this post only serves to prove the point I was making in post 38.
You don't have to tell me what 330bhp is capable of in a classic.
Just try and imagine what yours would be like with the faster spooling VF34 ball bearing turbo and a V3 top mount as opposed to a lag inducing front mount.
At the end of the day there is more than one way to skin a cat, big numbers don't make quick cars.
Edit to add; for sure they'll monster you after 120mph, but who drives around at those speeds on a/b roads.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 15 September 2015 at 08:42 PM.
15 September 2015, 09:06 PM
#56
agree with the comments on heat soak and the slanty. it aint up to the job on 280+
I would be a little disappointed with the power on that boost but the torque is a nice improvement. what fuel did you use?
I would be a little disappointed with the power on that boost but the torque is a nice improvement. what fuel did you use?
15 September 2015, 09:50 PM
#57
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Fresh in my memory when i picked it up asked them what fuel and was told whatever was in it which wasn't a major problem as I use tesco 99, anyway car didn't have a drop of fuel in it asked where the nearest station was to be told there was bp down the road, said wouldn't it matter as it's been mapped for a specific fuel to be told that there all the same as long as it was high octane I was using, never had this before as other mappers I have used in the past have always given me an option of either v power or tesco 99 and to stick with that, didn't want to stick bp in either as heard bad things about the fuel
16 September 2015, 02:53 PM
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To quote Harvey
The break points as far as I can see:
Ver 1 and 2 cars with slanted intercoolers around 280 bhp.
Ver 3,4,5, and 6 cars by 320 bhp.
WRX New Age around 350 bhp.
STi New Age by 370-380 bhp.
In part it depends what turbo you are using because if you are wringing the neck of the OE turbo or a small turbo you are making more heat than would be the case for a bigger turbo working well within its capability.
When the power exceeds what the intercooler is capable of dealing with efficiently it does not stop producing power but it does create a lot of heat. On an STi 3 intercooler I produced 335 bhp. No big deal but what was a big deal was that the ACT guage only had a scale to 69.9C at that time and it was easy to exceed that air charge temperature.
In excess of 69.9C ACT is a bad thing. Trust me.
An STi 8 TMIC with scoop and undertray is clearly a step ahead of an STi5/6 intercooler.
I have done a lot of work on STi 8 eqipped Classics and a few New Age WRX. There is a case for going front mount on the STi 8 TMIC somewhere around 370-380 bhp subject to the turbo in use.(if you want optimal power output/efficiency)
I am sure that with the right turbo and injectors an STi 8 TMIC could be persuaded to hit 500 bhp. Unfortunately the efficiency of that set up will probably be deteriorating from around 370-380 bhp and while I am sure such a performance could be forced I am sure it would be VERY innefficient.
If you are not measuring ACT and pressure drop across the core you are not in a position to know how well the core is working regardless of whether it is TMIC or FMIC. I have indicated above where I believe the break points are. Beyond these power levels an efficient FMIC will show benefits. Less than these power outputs and there is not really a case for an FMIC.
Until you have monitored charge temperatures on a Subaru with TMIC, you are in the dark and may find some of the very high temperatures hard to believe unless you see them yourself. I believe that a signifigant proportion of Subaru engine failures are because of prolonged high speed running with inefficient TMICs
The guages I refer to stop reading at 69.9C.
On an STi 3 Wagon (335 bhp) not many mods, on a sprint from 0-140mph, the guage is off the clock well before 140mph. On hard cross country driving the guage is similarly off the clock with plenty WOT. Motorway cruising may be 6-12 C over ambient.
With a good FMIC, M-Way cruising may be up to 2 C over ambient and a maximum of 12 c over ambient cross country and I have had 20 C over ambient on a very hot summer day on track at ten tenths for 25 minutes.
The break points as far as I can see:
Ver 1 and 2 cars with slanted intercoolers around 280 bhp.
Ver 3,4,5, and 6 cars by 320 bhp.
WRX New Age around 350 bhp.
STi New Age by 370-380 bhp.
In part it depends what turbo you are using because if you are wringing the neck of the OE turbo or a small turbo you are making more heat than would be the case for a bigger turbo working well within its capability.
When the power exceeds what the intercooler is capable of dealing with efficiently it does not stop producing power but it does create a lot of heat. On an STi 3 intercooler I produced 335 bhp. No big deal but what was a big deal was that the ACT guage only had a scale to 69.9C at that time and it was easy to exceed that air charge temperature.
In excess of 69.9C ACT is a bad thing. Trust me.
An STi 8 TMIC with scoop and undertray is clearly a step ahead of an STi5/6 intercooler.
I have done a lot of work on STi 8 eqipped Classics and a few New Age WRX. There is a case for going front mount on the STi 8 TMIC somewhere around 370-380 bhp subject to the turbo in use.(if you want optimal power output/efficiency)
I am sure that with the right turbo and injectors an STi 8 TMIC could be persuaded to hit 500 bhp. Unfortunately the efficiency of that set up will probably be deteriorating from around 370-380 bhp and while I am sure such a performance could be forced I am sure it would be VERY innefficient.
If you are not measuring ACT and pressure drop across the core you are not in a position to know how well the core is working regardless of whether it is TMIC or FMIC. I have indicated above where I believe the break points are. Beyond these power levels an efficient FMIC will show benefits. Less than these power outputs and there is not really a case for an FMIC.
Until you have monitored charge temperatures on a Subaru with TMIC, you are in the dark and may find some of the very high temperatures hard to believe unless you see them yourself. I believe that a signifigant proportion of Subaru engine failures are because of prolonged high speed running with inefficient TMICs
The guages I refer to stop reading at 69.9C.
On an STi 3 Wagon (335 bhp) not many mods, on a sprint from 0-140mph, the guage is off the clock well before 140mph. On hard cross country driving the guage is similarly off the clock with plenty WOT. Motorway cruising may be 6-12 C over ambient.
With a good FMIC, M-Way cruising may be up to 2 C over ambient and a maximum of 12 c over ambient cross country and I have had 20 C over ambient on a very hot summer day on track at ten tenths for 25 minutes.
Thanks Banny