Summonds for Careless Driving
27 April 2001, 12:03 AM
#31
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Yeah sorry, you did put the penatlys up thank you Dave.
I am not blaming the mud I am saying that this is my mistake, I didn't account for the fact in calculating what speed I should travel around a bend that there could or would be mud on the road. _I_ didn't account for the mud... I am not blaming it.
We are yes all accountable for our own actions and at the end of the day I didn't hurt anyone else other than myself. Had this not been the case it would have been a different story.
Aside from this I am not sure that there is any point punishing me further?
I now drive a lot safer not that I drove particularly unsafe before hand, I am looking into a driving course and I drivbe with a greater air of caution.
By adding points to my licence it is just going to cost me more money which won't really aid my driving. Or deter me further from doing it again.
If I had been caught speeding I can see that some points and a fine would have a purpose, in that it would be a constant reminder for 3years or more that I should stick to the limit. I already have a constant reminder that I should drive with more caution, I suppose it is possible that I might not have learnt my lesson I guess, and the fact that I already have is not possible to take into account I guess.
I am not blaming the mud I am saying that this is my mistake, I didn't account for the fact in calculating what speed I should travel around a bend that there could or would be mud on the road. _I_ didn't account for the mud... I am not blaming it.
We are yes all accountable for our own actions and at the end of the day I didn't hurt anyone else other than myself. Had this not been the case it would have been a different story.
Aside from this I am not sure that there is any point punishing me further?
I now drive a lot safer not that I drove particularly unsafe before hand, I am looking into a driving course and I drivbe with a greater air of caution.
By adding points to my licence it is just going to cost me more money which won't really aid my driving. Or deter me further from doing it again.
If I had been caught speeding I can see that some points and a fine would have a purpose, in that it would be a constant reminder for 3years or more that I should stick to the limit. I already have a constant reminder that I should drive with more caution, I suppose it is possible that I might not have learnt my lesson I guess, and the fact that I already have is not possible to take into account I guess.
27 April 2001, 12:24 AM
#32
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Dukes,
I wasn't having a go, but you do keep trying to justify it. "Well I had only had the car 4 weeks and I didn't know the road."
Maybe if you posted in your own name the replies would be substantially different. You change you name and then start a slanging match with somone who 'usually' talks a bit of sense (Sorry if this is a slur on your muppet abilities Dave
). I personally hope you get off as lightly as possible, as I can't see how a 2 grand fine will slow you down in 6 months or a year, so loss/damage of your scoob is probably more effetive punishment anyway
p.s. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Duke of Hazards:
<B>
I am sure more cars are stolen than written off, so I am sorry I added probably a £1 to your insurance premiums. [/quote]
Yes, my car was stolen last month. The keys where in the house, house doors locked, house alarm on etc etc. I have also contributed to the cost increase. The main difference here is that I don't really see how anyone could say that my claim is my fault. Yours however can only really be blamed on your actions.
I wasn't having a go, but you do keep trying to justify it. "Well I had only had the car 4 weeks and I didn't know the road."
Maybe if you posted in your own name the replies would be substantially different. You change you name and then start a slanging match with somone who 'usually' talks a bit of sense (Sorry if this is a slur on your muppet abilities Dave
). I personally hope you get off as lightly as possible, as I can't see how a 2 grand fine will slow you down in 6 months or a year, so loss/damage of your scoob is probably more effetive punishment anyway p.s. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Duke of Hazards:
<B>
I am sure more cars are stolen than written off, so I am sorry I added probably a £1 to your insurance premiums. [/quote]
Yes, my car was stolen last month. The keys where in the house, house doors locked, house alarm on etc etc. I have also contributed to the cost increase. The main difference here is that I don't really see how anyone could say that my claim is my fault. Yours however can only really be blamed on your actions.
27 April 2001, 12:29 AM
#33
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Duke
Regardless of what anyone on this board tells you, they’re not an expert. I’m certainly not, otherwise I’d be handling my own court case without a second thought.
Based on my experiences of last time, I’d go to court every time, but I’d get an EXPERT solicitor, not the local law firm who do everything from matrimonial to local licensing laws.
I am using Andreas Serghis, based on the opinions I’ve heard expressed on this board and from a large number of other people. Give the guy a call and discuss it with him – he’s happy to give advice without charge. As for costs, he’s charging me £400 + travelling expenses of 40p/mile (from Brighton).
Hope this helps.
Bros
PS I’m using an alias for the same reason as you – who knows who reads the boards?
PPS Good luck
Regardless of what anyone on this board tells you, they’re not an expert. I’m certainly not, otherwise I’d be handling my own court case without a second thought.
Based on my experiences of last time, I’d go to court every time, but I’d get an EXPERT solicitor, not the local law firm who do everything from matrimonial to local licensing laws.
I am using Andreas Serghis, based on the opinions I’ve heard expressed on this board and from a large number of other people. Give the guy a call and discuss it with him – he’s happy to give advice without charge. As for costs, he’s charging me £400 + travelling expenses of 40p/mile (from Brighton).
Hope this helps.
Bros
PS I’m using an alias for the same reason as you – who knows who reads the boards?
PPS Good luck
27 April 2001, 12:44 AM
#34
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Cheers Bros, hope your's goes okay too..
I have been quoted £250 and £199 from two different firms but like you say who knows whether they are any good, so I will probably go with the Andres if I decide to take that route.
I would rather just like to forget about it though and not have to re live it all in a court room or anywhere else come to that.
That is going to be worse than any ban or fine they might give me and for that reason and possibly for my sanity I might plead guilty by post. But I am still considering all my options.. I change my job 6days after the hearing and this will then mean a commute into London which I will probably do by train anyway...
Fastbloke - Yeah I appreciate that your stolen car is not your fault, just that the little bu99ers that steal them are increasing the premiums far more than my mistake is.
I have been quoted £250 and £199 from two different firms but like you say who knows whether they are any good, so I will probably go with the Andres if I decide to take that route.
I would rather just like to forget about it though and not have to re live it all in a court room or anywhere else come to that.
That is going to be worse than any ban or fine they might give me and for that reason and possibly for my sanity I might plead guilty by post. But I am still considering all my options.. I change my job 6days after the hearing and this will then mean a commute into London which I will probably do by train anyway...
Fastbloke - Yeah I appreciate that your stolen car is not your fault, just that the little bu99ers that steal them are increasing the premiums far more than my mistake is.
27 April 2001, 12:49 AM
#35
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Dukes
"Aside from this I am not sure that there is any point punishing me further?"
Yeah, nuff said probably......
Fastbloke
"I usually talk a bit of sense" - that's a vile slur mate
"Aside from this I am not sure that there is any point punishing me further?"
Yeah, nuff said probably......
Fastbloke
"I usually talk a bit of sense" - that's a vile slur mate
27 April 2001, 08:19 AM
#36
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Duke
Following up, for info, current issue of Highway Code page 88:
Careless or inconsiderate driving:
Max £2,500 fine, disqualification discretionary, 3-9 points......
Following up, for info, current issue of Highway Code page 88:
Careless or inconsiderate driving:
Max £2,500 fine, disqualification discretionary, 3-9 points......
27 April 2001, 08:28 AM
#37
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A) Get a Solicitor QUICKLY (I know a very good one if you want)
B) DON'T do it all by Post (they will need to see you to ban you anyway)
C) whatever plead you make, do it quickly, but...
D) Don't plead anything until you have done 'Step A' and got a brief to find out what you are pleading guilty to.
B) DON'T do it all by Post (they will need to see you to ban you anyway)
C) whatever plead you make, do it quickly, but...
D) Don't plead anything until you have done 'Step A' and got a brief to find out what you are pleading guilty to.
27 April 2001, 09:30 AM
#38
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Wow, I go home and return to work this morning to find many replies!
The worrying thing is the difference in peoples opinions, and therefore the difference in the courts opinions depending on which one we go to!
Therefore it might be better for me to plead guilty by post at one court or attend and plead guilty at another. If only I knew which I was going to.
I believe unfortunatly the driving course is an option they give rather than the Summons,
I was hoping I would get the course.
As at least then I would feel ticked off by them reckonizing I have done wrong but actually doing something worth while to aid my driving.
If I get say 9points and a big fine... will that help my driving???
No more than smashing my face on an air bag, scrapping my pride and joy, smashing up someone elses car and no doubt annoying them beyond my understanding.
Yeah I made a mistake, but the chances of me doing it again are reduced considerably..
The last thing I want to do it do it again..
If you have never had an accident you won't understand what it feels like afterwards and how your driving will change afterwards to avoid it ever happening again.
I feel that Dave in your original post you showed no respect or understanding you just sat there and typed from your very narrow minded position.. Yeah okay some people drive at 80mph and then wonder why they lose control and have an accident... this is not the case here and what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
The thing that really really worries me is that you are the kind of t*at that becomes a magistrate!
Never had an accident, never got any points..
never been in trouble with the Police etc.. like that makes you an expect?
well you try driving 40,000miles a year for 9years and then not have anything happen to you... it is just to easy to judge people without actually being in their shoes mate.
Moan over.......
The worrying thing is the difference in peoples opinions, and therefore the difference in the courts opinions depending on which one we go to!
Therefore it might be better for me to plead guilty by post at one court or attend and plead guilty at another. If only I knew which I was going to.
I believe unfortunatly the driving course is an option they give rather than the Summons,
I was hoping I would get the course.
As at least then I would feel ticked off by them reckonizing I have done wrong but actually doing something worth while to aid my driving.
If I get say 9points and a big fine... will that help my driving???
No more than smashing my face on an air bag, scrapping my pride and joy, smashing up someone elses car and no doubt annoying them beyond my understanding.
Yeah I made a mistake, but the chances of me doing it again are reduced considerably..
The last thing I want to do it do it again..
If you have never had an accident you won't understand what it feels like afterwards and how your driving will change afterwards to avoid it ever happening again.
I feel that Dave in your original post you showed no respect or understanding you just sat there and typed from your very narrow minded position.. Yeah okay some people drive at 80mph and then wonder why they lose control and have an accident... this is not the case here and what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
The thing that really really worries me is that you are the kind of t*at that becomes a magistrate!
Never had an accident, never got any points..
never been in trouble with the Police etc.. like that makes you an expect?
well you try driving 40,000miles a year for 9years and then not have anything happen to you... it is just to easy to judge people without actually being in their shoes mate.
Moan over.......
27 April 2001, 10:20 AM
#39
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Dukes
I thought your latest reply was more broadminded than the previous ones until I read the following:
Quote
The thing that really really worries me is that you are the kind of t*at that becomes a magistrate!
Never had an accident, never got any points..
never been in trouble with the Police etc.. like that makes you an expect?
Unquote
Now who's being judgemental?
You can say what you like, but;
1) You smashed your own car up, nobody else -
(although you say "Well I had only had the car 4 weeks and I didn't know the road" - i.e. try and blame something else....)
2) Mine's still in one piece
3) I am at least posting in my own name......
[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 27 April 2001).]
I thought your latest reply was more broadminded than the previous ones until I read the following:
Quote
The thing that really really worries me is that you are the kind of t*at that becomes a magistrate!
Never had an accident, never got any points..
never been in trouble with the Police etc.. like that makes you an expect?
Unquote
Now who's being judgemental?
You can say what you like, but;
1) You smashed your own car up, nobody else -
(although you say "Well I had only had the car 4 weeks and I didn't know the road" - i.e. try and blame something else....)
2) Mine's still in one piece
3) I am at least posting in my own name......
[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 27 April 2001).]
27 April 2001, 10:47 AM
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Ditto to what Dave said.
Dukes - It doesn't really matter what justification you offer. You where going too fast for the road conditions and/or your driving skills. If you didn't know the road why did you expect that the bend would not tighten as it did?
"this is not the case here and what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty"
I think the fact that you bounced your car of someone else is probably proof enough. You have been the definitive cause of the accident. This will cost both Dave and myself more money at renewal time. I would much prefer if my insurance was based on my past performance than yours.
[This message has been edited by fast bloke (edited 27 April 2001).]
Dukes - It doesn't really matter what justification you offer. You where going too fast for the road conditions and/or your driving skills. If you didn't know the road why did you expect that the bend would not tighten as it did?
"this is not the case here and what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty"
I think the fact that you bounced your car of someone else is probably proof enough. You have been the definitive cause of the accident. This will cost both Dave and myself more money at renewal time. I would much prefer if my insurance was based on my past performance than yours.
[This message has been edited by fast bloke (edited 27 April 2001).]
27 April 2001, 10:59 AM
#41
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Basically Dave we are not going to agree on this...
In my opinion you just backed up everything I said about you...
Quote
Mine's still in one piece
unquote
I am alright jack... so was mine until I made a small mistake which you could do anytime you drive your car, but you don't seem to be looking at it that way.
Sorry I forgot you are Mr Perfect.
I made a mistake I am not trying to blame anyone else or anything else, there are other factors which effected and influenced the outcome though. For example there was mud on the road, how am I suppose to know this before I go around the bend etc...
quote
I am at least posting in my own name
unquote
Well more fool you because I actually used to think you were a nice guy.
I'd rather change my name than turn up in court to someone that has read this and linked it with me, as funnily enough I am not currently worried about what I say being misunderstood.
I actually posted on here for some advise not abuse which is all you seem to be out for. No doubt you'll reply saying I'm wrong and of course in your head I am wrong.
In my opinion you just backed up everything I said about you...
Quote
Mine's still in one piece
unquote
I am alright jack... so was mine until I made a small mistake which you could do anytime you drive your car, but you don't seem to be looking at it that way.
Sorry I forgot you are Mr Perfect.
I made a mistake I am not trying to blame anyone else or anything else, there are other factors which effected and influenced the outcome though. For example there was mud on the road, how am I suppose to know this before I go around the bend etc...
quote
I am at least posting in my own name
unquote
Well more fool you because I actually used to think you were a nice guy.
I'd rather change my name than turn up in court to someone that has read this and linked it with me, as funnily enough I am not currently worried about what I say being misunderstood.
I actually posted on here for some advise not abuse which is all you seem to be out for. No doubt you'll reply saying I'm wrong and of course in your head I am wrong.
27 April 2001, 11:17 AM
#43
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Fastbloke,
you just backed up my reasoning for posting in a different name, thanks mate.
You just muddled my accident with Boosts...
I never mentioned that the corner tightened up, because it didn't.
Therefore if you were in court after reading this you'd be getting the wrong picture.
I didn't post on here to be told I did wrong, that is rather obvious.. but ever wondered why an Accident is called an *Accident*? because funny enough a lot of them happen by accident!
I am off to court to find out whether it was a genuine accident or if I was driving without due care and attention... I didn't post on here for a judgement, only for advise. I don't want advise on how to get off, I just want advise so I can prepare myself with all that is available to me that they don't mention, like for example that I can get copies of all the statements and info from the Police (thankyou Nerv).
Suresh - I do understand what you are saying and I am very very glad that nobody was hurt in my accident but I also feel bad for what I did to them.
Gary C - I have a couple of Solicitors numbers and I am awaiting some advise back from another. Another reason for posting on here was in the hope to get a Solicitor that actualy works for there money.
I am sure more cars are stolen than written off, so I am sorry I added probably a £1 to your insurance premiums.
you just backed up my reasoning for posting in a different name, thanks mate.
You just muddled my accident with Boosts...
I never mentioned that the corner tightened up, because it didn't.
Therefore if you were in court after reading this you'd be getting the wrong picture.
I didn't post on here to be told I did wrong, that is rather obvious.. but ever wondered why an Accident is called an *Accident*? because funny enough a lot of them happen by accident!
I am off to court to find out whether it was a genuine accident or if I was driving without due care and attention... I didn't post on here for a judgement, only for advise. I don't want advise on how to get off, I just want advise so I can prepare myself with all that is available to me that they don't mention, like for example that I can get copies of all the statements and info from the Police (thankyou Nerv).
Suresh - I do understand what you are saying and I am very very glad that nobody was hurt in my accident but I also feel bad for what I did to them.
Gary C - I have a couple of Solicitors numbers and I am awaiting some advise back from another. Another reason for posting on here was in the hope to get a Solicitor that actualy works for there money.
I am sure more cars are stolen than written off, so I am sorry I added probably a £1 to your insurance premiums.
27 April 2001, 11:26 AM
#44
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But since you are expecting me to argue:
You say you came on here looking for advice - in your very first post, you asked what the penalties are - I have actually answered your question by quoting what it says in the Highway Code.
"I am not trying to blame anything else" - then you go on to say in the very next sentence "there was mud on the road, how was I expected to know this?" - well, you do seem to get mud on the road at this time of the year........
At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our OWN actions - yours could have wrecked someone else's life - it is only lucky it did not. However, as you say, you have learned from it....
You say you came on here looking for advice - in your very first post, you asked what the penalties are - I have actually answered your question by quoting what it says in the Highway Code.
"I am not trying to blame anything else" - then you go on to say in the very next sentence "there was mud on the road, how was I expected to know this?" - well, you do seem to get mud on the road at this time of the year........
At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our OWN actions - yours could have wrecked someone else's life - it is only lucky it did not. However, as you say, you have learned from it....
27 April 2001, 12:02 PM
#45
With Dave T-S on this one. . .
A commment from an ex-scooby driver (soon to be one again though) Sorry mate, if you drive crap (note: not the same as a crap driver) you deserve to be punished.
Sorry to be judgmental but I got hit up the Gary at high speed a few years ago on the German autobahn and still suffer the consequences of the careless idiot.
Yes, I am bitter, but so would you be!
You don't seem too repentant, but nonetheless, hope it only costs a few points and a bit of cash.
Suresh
A commment from an ex-scooby driver (soon to be one again though
) Sorry mate, if you drive crap (note: not the same as a crap driver) you deserve to be punished.Sorry to be judgmental but I got hit up the Gary at high speed a few years ago on the German autobahn and still suffer the consequences of the careless idiot.
Yes, I am bitter, but so would you be!
You don't seem too repentant, but nonetheless, hope it only costs a few points and a bit of cash.
Suresh
27 April 2001, 02:08 PM
#46
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My God, theres no way I am ever going to post on this board if (God Forbid) I ever have an accident.
I cannot believe how judgmental you lot are, I really can't. You are treating him as though he / she did this with fore-thought and malice.
I cannot believe how judgmental you lot are, I really can't. You are treating him as though he / she did this with fore-thought and malice.
27 April 2001, 02:33 PM
#47
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Duke,
Get a solicitor, he will take the emotion out of this and work to the law. He will try to get you off or at worst as small a sentence as possible. It doesn't matter what the people on here say, you are entitled to a defence and to try to get off, the case is not clear cut as essentially its a quantative charge based on the Police perception and on CPS judgement. Its not black and white, you will be tried purely on the charge not on the other collateral damage, sure you hurt someone and you trashed your car but essentially your case to answer is that you drove badly.
Your feelings of personal guilt are not representative of the law nor do they mean your guilty there is no link. Deal with the court with a Solicitor and then you can personally deal with your concience in any way you like after that, thats must be a personal thing for you. Do not however mix them up together and hope that by beating yourself on one that it'll cure the other !!!
The high and mightly among us should remember the saying 'Pride comes before a fall', hopefully it won't happen to anyone here but from experience after an accident its impossible to detach yourself from it in an uncaring way, especially if you think you could have helped avoid it, as is obviously the case here.
Regards
Cammy
Regards
Cammy
Get a solicitor, he will take the emotion out of this and work to the law. He will try to get you off or at worst as small a sentence as possible. It doesn't matter what the people on here say, you are entitled to a defence and to try to get off, the case is not clear cut as essentially its a quantative charge based on the Police perception and on CPS judgement. Its not black and white, you will be tried purely on the charge not on the other collateral damage, sure you hurt someone and you trashed your car but essentially your case to answer is that you drove badly.
Your feelings of personal guilt are not representative of the law nor do they mean your guilty there is no link. Deal with the court with a Solicitor and then you can personally deal with your concience in any way you like after that, thats must be a personal thing for you. Do not however mix them up together and hope that by beating yourself on one that it'll cure the other !!!
The high and mightly among us should remember the saying 'Pride comes before a fall', hopefully it won't happen to anyone here but from experience after an accident its impossible to detach yourself from it in an uncaring way, especially if you think you could have helped avoid it, as is obviously the case here.
Regards
Cammy
Regards
Cammy
27 April 2001, 03:58 PM
#48
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Best of luck Dukes.
Everyone makes mistakes, no justification but it happens. Life is a learning experiance and you certainly sound like you've took something away from this (and I have), and in the process were lucky enough not to hurt anyone.
Don't let the negativity above get to you. If you're going to court, keep you're head clear of any acqusations made - WHATEVER the circumstances. Remeber the law exists to see a fair trial to anyone, and the above postings show why we need a legal system. To put the average view across. Whether you are innocent or not is not really for the people posting to this board to decide. And again whatever the magistrate decides is their decision. But only you (and possibly you're mate in the car) actually knows what really happened.
Best of luck
Everyone makes mistakes, no justification but it happens. Life is a learning experiance and you certainly sound like you've took something away from this (and I have), and in the process were lucky enough not to hurt anyone.
Don't let the negativity above get to you. If you're going to court, keep you're head clear of any acqusations made - WHATEVER the circumstances. Remeber the law exists to see a fair trial to anyone, and the above postings show why we need a legal system. To put the average view across. Whether you are innocent or not is not really for the people posting to this board to decide. And again whatever the magistrate decides is their decision. But only you (and possibly you're mate in the car) actually knows what really happened.
Best of luck
01 May 2001, 12:10 AM
#49
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My summons read "You drove without due care and attention to other road users by losing control of you vehicle causing damage to your own vehicle and a second vehicle"
I can't dispute that and if I was asked to describe the accident in court it would sound much worse - hence the plea by post.
Not sure what you should do Duke.
I'm glad I got something in the post as I would be crapping myself if I knew i definately had to go to court in a few days.
I can't dispute that and if I was asked to describe the accident in court it would sound much worse - hence the plea by post.
Not sure what you should do Duke.
I'm glad I got something in the post as I would be crapping myself if I knew i definately had to go to court in a few days.
01 May 2001, 12:47 AM
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This is very true boost, if I knew I was going to get the same or similar punishment for a post plea and an appearance plea then obviously the post plea would be my choice too.
Infact if I got say 6point by post and 3points by appearing I think I'd rather post it..
I am assuming they will read out the statements in court... checking summons now... no if I plea by post then just the statement of the facts on the front of the summons will be read out and my letter of mitigation.
Hummmmm... I now see what you mean, if you appear then your statement and any witnesses statements and Police reports etc will be read out and it could make it worse.
pleaing quilty by post doesn't seem so bad then really... I just need a "I am sorry letter" to accompany the summons return form.
Still considering my options..
Infact if I got say 6point by post and 3points by appearing I think I'd rather post it..
I am assuming they will read out the statements in court... checking summons now... no if I plea by post then just the statement of the facts on the front of the summons will be read out and my letter of mitigation.
Hummmmm... I now see what you mean, if you appear then your statement and any witnesses statements and Police reports etc will be read out and it could make it worse.
pleaing quilty by post doesn't seem so bad then really... I just need a "I am sorry letter" to accompany the summons return form.
Still considering my options..
01 May 2001, 09:17 AM
#51
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Well it continues!
Boost - I believe that "Driving without due care and attention" is a separate offence to "Driving without due care and attention to other road users"
I presume because I lost control on a bend and there happened to be another car coming the other way which I hit I actually wasn't not paying attention to the other road user.
I guess had I for example overtook a car and hit something coming the other direction or pulled out in front of someone at a junction this seems more likely to be "driving without due care and attention to other road users" I believe I am up for a CD10 and the other is a CD30, conviction codes.
I heard back from an online solicitor free advise today which I was going to cut and paste in but they have a copy right on it.
Basically they say that the court will try and prove that I was not driving how a Prudent and competent driver would have in the same situation and of my own ommission that I "lost control" that it is likely that on this occasion my driving did drop below this standard. Fair enough.
Therefore I am likely to get found guilty and get between 3 and 9 points and a fine.
Also as was mentioned previously by Joey I think that if I plead NOT guilty and then get found guilty it will be a higher charge.
So they basically recommended pleading guilty. They also didn't suggest I tick the box and do it by post, but then they wouldn't as they then offered their defense service.
I notice on the summons it says I can write and get their case against me, but gives no address (most helpful) has anyone done this or know who I should write too?
Lastly I have also heard that I can retrieve the Police report of the accident (for £40) and have someone check through this and reconstruct the accident and check for any mistakes the Police might have made, which I don't currently think it is worth doing but any views on this? I suppose if they have mistake a skid mark and then calaculated my speed to be higher or something then I could be convicted for a worse situation than actually occurred. I don't believe there were any skid marks but I couldn't think of another example!
I am less likely to take you patromony to heart today DaveT-S so bring it on!!!!!!!
Snooty git...
Boost - I believe that "Driving without due care and attention" is a separate offence to "Driving without due care and attention to other road users"
I presume because I lost control on a bend and there happened to be another car coming the other way which I hit I actually wasn't not paying attention to the other road user.
I guess had I for example overtook a car and hit something coming the other direction or pulled out in front of someone at a junction this seems more likely to be "driving without due care and attention to other road users" I believe I am up for a CD10 and the other is a CD30, conviction codes.
I heard back from an online solicitor free advise today which I was going to cut and paste in but they have a copy right on it.
Basically they say that the court will try and prove that I was not driving how a Prudent and competent driver would have in the same situation and of my own ommission that I "lost control" that it is likely that on this occasion my driving did drop below this standard. Fair enough.
Therefore I am likely to get found guilty and get between 3 and 9 points and a fine.
Also as was mentioned previously by Joey I think that if I plead NOT guilty and then get found guilty it will be a higher charge.
So they basically recommended pleading guilty. They also didn't suggest I tick the box and do it by post, but then they wouldn't as they then offered their defense service.
I notice on the summons it says I can write and get their case against me, but gives no address (most helpful) has anyone done this or know who I should write too?
Lastly I have also heard that I can retrieve the Police report of the accident (for £40) and have someone check through this and reconstruct the accident and check for any mistakes the Police might have made, which I don't currently think it is worth doing but any views on this? I suppose if they have mistake a skid mark and then calaculated my speed to be higher or something then I could be convicted for a worse situation than actually occurred. I don't believe there were any skid marks but I couldn't think of another example!
I am less likely to take you patromony to heart today DaveT-S so bring it on!!!!!!!
Snooty git...
01 May 2001, 09:39 AM
#52
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"I am less likely to take you patromony to heart today DaveT-S so bring it on!!!!!!!
Snooty git... "
Well, as you've invited me......nah, fish aren't biting today. Mind you, I think you meant patronising....but you shouldn't kick a man while he is down, so I won't
Snooty git... "
Well, as you've invited me......nah, fish aren't biting today.
Mind you, I think you meant patronising....but you shouldn't kick a man while he is down, so I won't
01 May 2001, 10:10 AM
#53
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Mine to was driving without due care and attention to other roads users, its just a pain to type it all out. I don't remember seeing any of those offence codes mentioned on my summons or the fact that I could request the evidence they had against me. I did get a letter enclosed which claimed to list the witnesses and their statements and give me a chance to get them to present oral evidence in court if I wanted. The odd thing was no statements were attached and no names were listed. One solicitor told me that the CPS had made a mistake and that it was good since they can't use any wintness statements that I have not been notified of. Any way its not long for me to hear now.
01 May 2001, 11:06 AM
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Well mine isn't the "to other road users" one but the plain "Driving without due care and attention".
I didn't get an enclosed letter or anything like that. So I don't know of any witnesses.
Just re-reading the summons and it reads "YOU OVERTOOK A SLOWER MOVING VAN AND THEN LOST CONTROL OF YOUR VECHILE AND VEERED OVER TO THE OFFSIDE OF THE ROAD AND COLLIDED WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE TRAVELLING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION"
Which is not strictly true.. it implies I was still overtaking when I lost control which is not the case. I had overtaken and returned to the left side of the road slowed down and then turned a bend when I lost control. Anyway...
On Page 4 is says that my solicitor or myself my obtain the prosections case.
The conviction codes I got off of an insurance website which is the code that would go on the licence if convicted.
So if what you are saying is correct regarding witnesses perhaps they only have my statement to go from...
I didn't get an enclosed letter or anything like that. So I don't know of any witnesses.
Just re-reading the summons and it reads "YOU OVERTOOK A SLOWER MOVING VAN AND THEN LOST CONTROL OF YOUR VECHILE AND VEERED OVER TO THE OFFSIDE OF THE ROAD AND COLLIDED WITH ANOTHER VEHICLE TRAVELLING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION"
Which is not strictly true.. it implies I was still overtaking when I lost control which is not the case. I had overtaken and returned to the left side of the road slowed down and then turned a bend when I lost control. Anyway...
On Page 4 is says that my solicitor or myself my obtain the prosections case.
The conviction codes I got off of an insurance website which is the code that would go on the licence if convicted.
So if what you are saying is correct regarding witnesses perhaps they only have my statement to go from...
01 May 2001, 03:26 PM
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Duke
On the other hand, if you appear in court you can make the point that whilst you accept that you committed the offence, in fact your overtake was safe and that the loss of control was entirely separate.
Turn up, look concerned, express your (very real) remorse at the accident and the consequences it could have had for you and other road users. You can do this by post, but I'm not convinced it will have the same effect.
I understand what Boost is saying, but his incident will probably sound worse if he appears in court, yours probably won't ......
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Bros
On the other hand, if you appear in court you can make the point that whilst you accept that you committed the offence, in fact your overtake was safe and that the loss of control was entirely separate.
Turn up, look concerned, express your (very real) remorse at the accident and the consequences it could have had for you and other road users. You can do this by post, but I'm not convinced it will have the same effect.
I understand what Boost is saying, but his incident will probably sound worse if he appears in court, yours probably won't ......
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Bros
01 May 2001, 03:37 PM
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Yeah the only persons statement I would like to not get read out is the Van drivers that I overtook... I wasn't going excessive and it was a safe place to overtake and the accident was unrealated to this.
He was raving afterwards that I was going to fast etc.. he must sit in his van a 30-40mph all day and scream at people that overtake at the speed limit....
I don't think that would look to good...
The car I hit would probably be something like :
Came around a bend to see a car sliding sideways taking out the bollards which then veered onto my side of the road and hit me head on. Don't think he could paint it any other way than how it happened but still not good.
He was raving afterwards that I was going to fast etc.. he must sit in his van a 30-40mph all day and scream at people that overtake at the speed limit....
I don't think that would look to good...
The car I hit would probably be something like :
Came around a bend to see a car sliding sideways taking out the bollards which then veered onto my side of the road and hit me head on. Don't think he could paint it any other way than how it happened but still not good.
02 May 2001, 09:21 AM
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Well I was advised that I should plead guilty and that I would be facing 3 to 9points... checked with insurance and with an extra years no claims and 9points next renewal it was about £100 up on last years.
So currently thinking that not having to stand up in court and go through it all and all the other reports and statements it seems worth the risk of 9points.
Just hoping a ban doesn't sneek in there, but I cannot see it.
So I am trying to get myself onto either a defensive driving course or onto the Advanced Driving scheme... because I want to improve my driving and also it will look good on the mitiagation letter to say I am doing an advanced driving course to improve my driving etc..
That is the current situation.
As to being sla99ed off... yes it does seem a bit off, but I have still gained some help and advise, some of it emailed to me rather than placed on the board (afraid of more abuse).
There was me thinking I was immature...just goes how wrong you can be sometimes.
Thank you for everyones help so far.
So currently thinking that not having to stand up in court and go through it all and all the other reports and statements it seems worth the risk of 9points.
Just hoping a ban doesn't sneek in there, but I cannot see it.
So I am trying to get myself onto either a defensive driving course or onto the Advanced Driving scheme... because I want to improve my driving and also it will look good on the mitiagation letter to say I am doing an advanced driving course to improve my driving etc..
That is the current situation.
As to being sla99ed off... yes it does seem a bit off, but I have still gained some help and advise, some of it emailed to me rather than placed on the board (afraid of more abuse).
There was me thinking I was immature...just goes how wrong you can be sometimes.
Thank you for everyones help so far.