France under attack.
15 November 2015, 11:48 PM
#271
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This meme is such a red herring. Is PEDIGA a far right organisation? No, although several media outlets try and portray it as such. How about the "identitarian" movement in France - Nope again. Combat 18, NF - nothing happening there. How about far left though? Hope not Hate, UAF are both well funded via Labour sources and all happy to use violence on the streets.
Your claim doesn't stand up to the evidence, unless you are claiming UKIP is far right of course?
Your claim doesn't stand up to the evidence, unless you are claiming UKIP is far right of course?
As for far right groups, go on social media and take look!
Groups like Britain First and EDL are in their absolute element right now.
16 November 2015, 12:16 AM
#272
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I think we can all agree it is a total cluster Fvck what ever which way you look at it
The UK/US policy on the whole of the Middle East has been flawed for decades
I was listening to a program on radio 4 the other day, on the Iraq aftermath
And a U.S. General (I think) said on of the big problems was that they (we) had so few US national Arab speakers - about 20 in the whole shebang
So always had to rely on non American Arab translators to handle ALL the tricky delicate negotiations throughout the post war period - no wonder the U.S. Had no clue
Fantasy land when you think about it
It made me think of a comment a UK diplomat made in another program, along the lines of the Foreign Office running down the "Arab desk" over the last 30 odd years - losing all the skills (language / culture) etc that it had acquired of half a century
So really our whole Foriegn policy was blind - simply driven by a slavish support for Saudi arabia (oil and arms sales) and Isreal - for simple big boy geopolitical reasons
The UK/US policy on the whole of the Middle East has been flawed for decades
I was listening to a program on radio 4 the other day, on the Iraq aftermath
And a U.S. General (I think) said on of the big problems was that they (we) had so few US national Arab speakers - about 20 in the whole shebang
So always had to rely on non American Arab translators to handle ALL the tricky delicate negotiations throughout the post war period - no wonder the U.S. Had no clue
Fantasy land when you think about it
It made me think of a comment a UK diplomat made in another program, along the lines of the Foreign Office running down the "Arab desk" over the last 30 odd years - losing all the skills (language / culture) etc that it had acquired of half a century
So really our whole Foriegn policy was blind - simply driven by a slavish support for Saudi arabia (oil and arms sales) and Isreal - for simple big boy geopolitical reasons
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 16 November 2015 at 12:22 AM.
16 November 2015, 02:30 AM
#273
I love scoobynet.
Brings out all the brilliant nonsense
How people can kill like this,whatever reasons,they are not good reasons.
Brings out all the brilliant nonsense
How people can kill like this,whatever reasons,they are not good reasons.
16 November 2015, 08:24 AM
#274
Apologies.Everyone is very passionate at yet another awful time.
I despair at humans sometime
I despair at humans sometime
16 November 2015, 08:30 AM
#275
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I think we can all agree it is a total cluster Fvck what ever which way you look at it
The UK/US policy on the whole of the Middle East has been flawed for decades
I was listening to a program on radio 4 the other day, on the Iraq aftermath
And a U.S. General (I think) said on of the big problems was that they (we) had so few US national Arab speakers - about 20 in the whole shebang
So always had to rely on non American Arab translators to handle ALL the tricky delicate negotiations throughout the post war period - no wonder the U.S. Had no clue
Fantasy land when you think about it
It made me think of a comment a UK diplomat made in another program, along the lines of the Foreign Office running down the "Arab desk" over the last 30 odd years - losing all the skills (language / culture) etc that it had acquired of half a century
So really our whole Foriegn policy was blind - simply driven by a slavish support for Saudi arabia (oil and arms sales) and Isreal - for simple big boy geopolitical reasons
The UK/US policy on the whole of the Middle East has been flawed for decades
I was listening to a program on radio 4 the other day, on the Iraq aftermath
And a U.S. General (I think) said on of the big problems was that they (we) had so few US national Arab speakers - about 20 in the whole shebang
So always had to rely on non American Arab translators to handle ALL the tricky delicate negotiations throughout the post war period - no wonder the U.S. Had no clue
Fantasy land when you think about it
It made me think of a comment a UK diplomat made in another program, along the lines of the Foreign Office running down the "Arab desk" over the last 30 odd years - losing all the skills (language / culture) etc that it had acquired of half a century
So really our whole Foriegn policy was blind - simply driven by a slavish support for Saudi arabia (oil and arms sales) and Isreal - for simple big boy geopolitical reasons
I still can't get over the flag a half mast on the palace of Westminster when the Saudi King died - I found that an afront to the values of this country.
16 November 2015, 08:42 AM
#276
Not sure what the demographic is now but at one point something like 80% of American congress was Jewish and given their apparent un-dying support for Israel it's no real surprise that American foreign policy has effectively put us all in this situation.
16 November 2015, 09:58 AM
#277
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We've never been consistent in our approach to that part of the world. Even now after all that's happened, we struggle to do the right things for the right reasons.
I still can't get over the flag a half mast on the palace of Westminster when the Saudi King died - I found that an afront to the values of this country.
I still can't get over the flag a half mast on the palace of Westminster when the Saudi King died - I found that an afront to the values of this country.
ISIS feeds on this - "religion" is just a proxy really
apparently what exacerbated the whole instability of Syria was successive crop failures, which drove people into the cities
Unlike California Syria did not have the infrastructure or money to ameliorate the affects of the drought that swept through the region in the years prior to the conflict
and anyone who has studied revolutionary history knows this is often an important catalyst (the migration of rural into the cities) in promoting instability and unrest
16 November 2015, 11:29 AM
#278
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We'll said.
It is obviously horrific that over 100 innocent people were killed in Paris, the MM will not let us all forget for a very long time about that terrible night in France.
But what about the 100,000's of innocent men women and children killed by our bombs in Syria,Iraq, Afghanistan to name a few, the thousands maimed and left homeless.......did our MM forget about these people, is it a case of they value lives differently or is it a case of out of sight out of mind.
Double standards.
Rip to all those who lost lives.
It is obviously horrific that over 100 innocent people were killed in Paris, the MM will not let us all forget for a very long time about that terrible night in France.
But what about the 100,000's of innocent men women and children killed by our bombs in Syria,Iraq, Afghanistan to name a few, the thousands maimed and left homeless.......did our MM forget about these people, is it a case of they value lives differently or is it a case of out of sight out of mind.
Double standards.
Rip to all those who lost lives.
16 November 2015, 11:33 AM
#279
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yes, it is the instability that's feeds these sorts of conflicts - instability driven by poverty. powerlessness etc etc
ISIS feeds on this - "religion" is just a proxy really
apparently what exacerbated the whole instability of Syria was successive crop failures, which drove people into the cities
Unlike California Syria did not have the infrastructure or money to ameliorate the affects of the drought that swept through the region in the years prior to the conflict
and anyone who has studied revolutionary history knows this is often an important catalyst (the migration of rural into the cities) in promoting instability and unrest
ISIS feeds on this - "religion" is just a proxy really
apparently what exacerbated the whole instability of Syria was successive crop failures, which drove people into the cities
Unlike California Syria did not have the infrastructure or money to ameliorate the affects of the drought that swept through the region in the years prior to the conflict
and anyone who has studied revolutionary history knows this is often an important catalyst (the migration of rural into the cities) in promoting instability and unrest
16 November 2015, 11:43 AM
#280
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I'm not sure this is entirely the case. Yes, Islamic State have looked to capitalise on the instability and the power vacuum, but I think and feel that they're absolutely motivated by their god and prophet. It's dangerous to let fundamental Islam off the hook; to do this is to miss the root cause of the problem.
I respect your view
the last think I want to do is let anyone off the hook for this barbarism
16 November 2015, 11:56 AM
#281
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16 November 2015, 12:04 PM
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What do you propose, Ditch, that America and its allies cut Israel loose?
16 November 2015, 12:15 PM
#283
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
16 November 2015, 01:19 PM
#284
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Don't think that's really an option considering the Jewish influence in America, just one name springs to mind Goldman Sachs, big powerful company and I'm sure there are many others with less obviously jewish names, our own supermarket chain that many on here get their momentum fuel from Tesco which is short for Tessa Cohen, daughter of Lord Cohen, the list goes on and on all these people have influence beyond our comprehension in all of this and it runs too deep to do anything about now.
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
16 November 2015, 01:21 PM
#285
Don't think that's really an option considering the Jewish influence in America, just one name springs to mind Goldman Sachs, big powerful company and I'm sure there are many others with less obviously jewish names, our own supermarket chain that many on here get their momentum fuel from Tesco which is short for Tessa Cohen, daughter of Lord Cohen, the list goes on and on all these people have influence beyond our comprehension in all of this and it runs too deep to do anything about now.
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
16 November 2015, 01:29 PM
#286
The whole system is funded by parties with "special interests" indeed they even set up groups called, strangely enough "special Interests" and pay people to lobby ministers (ie wine and dine offer "contributions" WINK WINK) and members of congress to "ask question" push bills through parliment and the senate on their behalf.
Seriously dude are you living in cloud cuckoo land.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 16 November 2015 at 01:35 PM.
16 November 2015, 01:52 PM
#287
How is it conspiritard crap, if you can't see the links between government/politicians and big business / corporations then I can only assume you have been living in a cave somewhere in outer Mongolia.
The whole system is funded by parties with "special interests" indeed they even set up groups called, strangely enough "special Interests" and pay people to lobby ministers (ie wine and dine offer "contributions" WINK WINK) and members of congress to "ask question" push bills through parliment and the senate on their behalf.
Seriously dude are you living in cloud cuckoo land.
The whole system is funded by parties with "special interests" indeed they even set up groups called, strangely enough "special Interests" and pay people to lobby ministers (ie wine and dine offer "contributions" WINK WINK) and members of congress to "ask question" push bills through parliment and the senate on their behalf.
Seriously dude are you living in cloud cuckoo land.
I don't doubt there are back room deals going on in politics and business but this doesn't mean the whole world is run to the benefit of few "powerful Jews."
Why you try and steer this thread to blaming migrants and Jews for the way the world is is beyond me. If I'm in cloud cuckoo, I dread to think what your version of reality is.
16 November 2015, 02:17 PM
#288
I tell you why it's conspiritard, you spout cr@p alluding to how the Jews run the world based on "facts" like Tesco bollox you just typed and obviously believe to be true. Do some research, Jack Cohen had 2 daughters, neither of them called Tessa.
I don't doubt there are back room deals going on in politics and business but this doesn't mean the whole world is run to the benefit of few "powerful Jews."
Why you try and steer this thread to blaming migrants and Jews for the way the world is is beyond me. If I'm in cloud cuckoo, I dread to think what your version of reality is.
I don't doubt there are back room deals going on in politics and business but this doesn't mean the whole world is run to the benefit of few "powerful Jews."
Why you try and steer this thread to blaming migrants and Jews for the way the world is is beyond me. If I'm in cloud cuckoo, I dread to think what your version of reality is.
This **** storm we are in, led into via American policy via big business, oil, gas, minerals world domination call it what you will, it's all connected, all these special interest groups big business and business men with their family financial dynasty is what has put us where we are today and people in morgues ALL around the world, including Jews and migrants.
I mentioned migrants earlier because of what I believe to be a way in which some terrorists have gotten into Europe along with weapons, using the migrant crisis as a cover, as for the jews / Isrealies they have been at war with Muslims for some considerable time, they also happen to have great influence in American politics and policy, which I think is a contributory factor to the situation we now all find our selves in.
Have you not noticed how very little is reported about goings on in palestine these days or Iraq or Afganistan, some nice distraction tactics going on me thinks.
If this makes me a racist anti jew anti migrant because I'm prepared to look at the bigger picture and not be blinded by a couple of hundred of dead french people when allied forces and the powers that be have been killing muslims all around the world for some considerable time in the name of democracy then so be it.
You keep your head in the sand mate, just be careful you don't get bitten on the **** while you're at it.
Ok I got it wrong on the lord Cohen thing but you will find that Tesco IS names after Tessa Cohen who is one of that dynasty.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 16 November 2015 at 02:19 PM.
16 November 2015, 03:20 PM
#289
That kind of stigmatisation and those by association is partly why some are driven to extremism. There is plenty of barbarity committed by various religions; Christians across Africa against Muslims, Buddhist monks killing Muslims in Sri Lanka, Sikhs against Hindus, etc. Therefore we may as well distrust all religions based on that logic. Distrust extremism would be more accurate perhaps.
Last edited by jonc; 16 November 2015 at 03:26 PM.
16 November 2015, 03:41 PM
#290
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That kind of stigmatisation and those by association is partly why some are driven to extremism. There is plenty of barbarity committed by various religions; Christians across Africa against Muslims, Buddhist monks killing Muslims in Sri Lanka, Sikhs against Hindus, etc. Therefore we may as well distrust all religions based on that logic. Distrust extremism would be more accurate perhaps.
Love Muslims, distrust Islam.
16 November 2015, 05:01 PM
#291
I'm not steering the thread anywhere pal, I'm merely saying it as I see it.
This **** storm we are in, led into via American policy via big business, oil, gas, minerals world domination call it what you will, it's all connected, all these special interest groups big business and business men with their family financial dynasty is what has put us where we are today and people in morgues ALL around the world, including Jews and migrants.
I mentioned migrants earlier because of what I believe to be a way in which some terrorists have gotten into Europe along with weapons, using the migrant crisis as a cover, as for the jews / Isrealies they have been at war with Muslims for some considerable time, they also happen to have great influence in American politics and policy, which I think is a contributory factor to the situation we now all find our selves in.
Have you not noticed how very little is reported about goings on in palestine these days or Iraq or Afganistan, some nice distraction tactics going on me thinks.
If this makes me a racist anti jew anti migrant because I'm prepared to look at the bigger picture and not be blinded by a couple of hundred of dead french people when allied forces and the powers that be have been killing muslims all around the world for some considerable time in the name of democracy then so be it.
You keep your head in the sand mate, just be careful you don't get bitten on the **** while you're at it.
Ok I got it wrong on the lord Cohen thing but you will find that Tesco IS names after Tessa Cohen who is one of that dynasty.
This **** storm we are in, led into via American policy via big business, oil, gas, minerals world domination call it what you will, it's all connected, all these special interest groups big business and business men with their family financial dynasty is what has put us where we are today and people in morgues ALL around the world, including Jews and migrants.
I mentioned migrants earlier because of what I believe to be a way in which some terrorists have gotten into Europe along with weapons, using the migrant crisis as a cover, as for the jews / Isrealies they have been at war with Muslims for some considerable time, they also happen to have great influence in American politics and policy, which I think is a contributory factor to the situation we now all find our selves in.
Have you not noticed how very little is reported about goings on in palestine these days or Iraq or Afganistan, some nice distraction tactics going on me thinks.
If this makes me a racist anti jew anti migrant because I'm prepared to look at the bigger picture and not be blinded by a couple of hundred of dead french people when allied forces and the powers that be have been killing muslims all around the world for some considerable time in the name of democracy then so be it.
You keep your head in the sand mate, just be careful you don't get bitten on the **** while you're at it.
Ok I got it wrong on the lord Cohen thing but you will find that Tesco IS names after Tessa Cohen who is one of that dynasty.
Look, these extremists don't attack just because of America's foreign policy, they attack for whatever they see as an affront to their beliefs and religion. For example, the Charlie Hebdo attack was not against America's policy or secret deals by Jews. They also attack other Muslims who don't follow their interpretation of Islam. Like you said, crazy people do crazy things.
Last edited by jonc; 16 November 2015 at 05:03 PM.
16 November 2015, 05:39 PM
#293
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Over 400000 now
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
I found another petition from several months ago with over 400000 signatures wanting to open the borders and take more refugees, I wonder if they still think that's a good idea?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
I found another petition from several months ago with over 400000 signatures wanting to open the borders and take more refugees, I wonder if they still think that's a good idea?
16 November 2015, 05:45 PM
#294
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Don't think that's really an option considering the Jewish influence in America, just one name springs to mind Goldman Sachs, big powerful company and I'm sure there are many others with less obviously jewish names, our own supermarket chain that many on here get their momentum fuel from Tesco which is short for Tessa Cohen, daughter of Lord Cohen, the list goes on and on all these people have influence beyond our comprehension in all of this and it runs too deep to do anything about now.
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
Remember what the queen said when Diana kissed concrete in Paris?
16 November 2015, 05:46 PM
#295
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Over 400000 now
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
I found another petition from several months ago with over 400000 signatures wanting to open the borders and take more refugees, I wonder if they still think that's a good idea?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516
I found another petition from several months ago with over 400000 signatures wanting to open the borders and take more refugees, I wonder if they still think that's a good idea?
16 November 2015, 07:05 PM
#296
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Yes, it is. Read Raf's comments a couple of pages back, the guy doesn't even know his own book. I'm not prepared to demonise him or a group of people who are, in the main, ignorant of their own socio-religious inheritance. They've been duped and so I'll love them and hope that they reciprocate, but I'll distrust an idea like Islam that seems to breed violence and poverty and intolerance and I'll distrust it even more having read the text and studied its founder. I consider Muslims to be my neighbour and my Man and my Book commands me to love them. That is what I shall do.
Last edited by JTaylor; 16 November 2015 at 07:19 PM.
16 November 2015, 07:32 PM
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Yes, it is. Read Raf's comments a couple of pages back, the guy doesn't even know his own book. I'm not prepared to demonise him or a group of people who are, in the main, ignorant of their own socio-religious inheritance. They've been duped and so I'll love them and hope that they reciprocate, but I'll distrust an idea like Islam that seems to breed violence and poverty and intolerance and I'll distrust it even more having read the text and studied its founder. I consider Muslims to be my neighbour and my Man and my Book commands me to love them. That is what I shall do.
Unfortunately these primitive beliefs are part of this problem, but adding in yours isn't moving us forward. Until both of you wake up from your DELUSION, we aint gonna make real progress. If he is such a good egg, why doesn't he renounce Islam? Oh wait he agrees with being part of it, AND ALL IT STANDS FOR. Yes his social group/family might revolve around it, but again, if its rotten, denounce it and leave
16 November 2015, 07:50 PM
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Ahh right, so he's been duped but you haven't. Oooooo Kkkkkkk.....
Unfortunately these primitive beliefs are part of this problem, but adding in yours isn't moving us forward. Until both of you wake up from your DELUSION, we aint gonna make real progress. If he is such a good egg, why doesn't he renounce Islam? Oh wait he agrees with being part of it, AND ALL IT STANDS FOR. Yes his social group/family might revolve around it, but again, if its rotten, denounce it and leave
Unfortunately these primitive beliefs are part of this problem, but adding in yours isn't moving us forward. Until both of you wake up from your DELUSION, we aint gonna make real progress. If he is such a good egg, why doesn't he renounce Islam? Oh wait he agrees with being part of it, AND ALL IT STANDS FOR. Yes his social group/family might revolve around it, but again, if its rotten, denounce it and leave
16 November 2015, 08:36 PM
#299
Oh dont get me wrong I have read and read some translations of the Quran. Had parts of it translated to me to help me understand also which is why I stand by my belief thats it is a religion of peace TO ME. Not in a position to pull quotes out of context and give explanations other than using google which wouldnt be right 
However this thread is about the Paris attacks and not Islam.
A quote from another forum pretty much sums it up for me...
"Whilst all these people are blaming religion, I just want to remind you ISIS have killed over 100,000 MUSLIMS in the last couple of years. Think of that figure for a second whilst you think of what happened in Paris. They do not care about what you think or say, they are out there to create this hatred and split and they are doing a damn good job of it. We give these guys SO much air time and we constantly bang on about them and how we should all be scared of them and that they are going to kill us all. As a Muslim I should be more afraid than most, as if ISIS won't kill me it will be someone in the security forces who thinks I am one of them but am I scared? Not the slightest, I don't have time for that."
Cheers All and peace out!
However this thread is about the Paris attacks and not Islam.
A quote from another forum pretty much sums it up for me...
"Whilst all these people are blaming religion, I just want to remind you ISIS have killed over 100,000 MUSLIMS in the last couple of years. Think of that figure for a second whilst you think of what happened in Paris. They do not care about what you think or say, they are out there to create this hatred and split and they are doing a damn good job of it. We give these guys SO much air time and we constantly bang on about them and how we should all be scared of them and that they are going to kill us all. As a Muslim I should be more afraid than most, as if ISIS won't kill me it will be someone in the security forces who thinks I am one of them but am I scared? Not the slightest, I don't have time for that."
Cheers All and peace out!
Last edited by RAF1; 16 November 2015 at 08:37 PM.
16 November 2015, 08:38 PM
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I used to think and feel like you, but I realised that actually all that hate does is push Muslims away. They may well be more inclined to retreat in to the fundamentals of their belief system and worse, become radicalised by the type of bearded men that prey on the disenfranchised, the bullied and the hated. As somebody once said to me, you're part of the problem. Learn to love, Warren.