JTaylor

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/

I posted this earlier. It's not a load of lefty claptrap co-opting Islamist narrative, nor is it far-right propaganda masquerading as 'news'. What it is is a brilliantly written, insightful and disturbing look at Salafist Islam and their Islamic State. The Atlantic is a well respected and moderate current affairs magazine and I urge everybody to read this article if they wish to understand the enemy we (the world including nominal and cultural Muslims) face.

JTaylor

Evil exists. We saw it on Friday 13th.

Martin2005

JT are you saying that what we like to call 'radicalisation', is in fact a process of Islamic enlightenment?

hodgy0_2

Nice little 5 min film on the Syrian conflict

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I think Islamic realism would be closer to the truth.

JTaylor

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll have a go. I certainly think that Salafist Islam is pure. The idea that IS are not true Muslims and the Muslims we see assimilating are true Muslims is ridiculous. The inverse is correct. I try to be Biblical in my Christianity, I am an evangelical baptist, and this leads me to believe in the power of love and forgiveness. A serious Qur'an following Muslim who knows his man and his book will support the establishment of the caliphate, will pledge allegiance to the caliph and will willingly give his life to extend the caliphate's boundaries. Of course this is radical, true Islam is radical. Christ was a radical, too, in so much as he challenged the zeitgeist of His time with His teachings. But radical Christianity and radical Islam are very different. Opposite, in fact. People say "IS aren't representative of Islam", well I'm afraid they are. Study the man, study the book, and you'll get an insight in to Islamic State.

Martin2005

Literalism is where the religious go wrong IMO

hodgy0_2

And only applies it to "the other side" imo

Martin2005

Indeed

JTaylor

Well I don't think it's as simple as that. Take my faith; there are those things that are literally true and those that are not. Christ said that there are some who have eyes to see and ears to hear, meaning that not everyone will 'get' it. For example, when Christ described Himself as The Door, The Vine and The Shepherd, He didn't mean that He had hinges and a handle and grapes growing on Him and actual sheep to look after, He was painting a picture, giving illustrations. He taught almost exclusively in parables. However, the story of the resurrection is to be accepted as literally true. It's about discernment.

Salafist Islam, on the other hand, is absolutely literalist and exoteric.

WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

That is one of the articles I found and have read.

Martin2005

But these are all ancient texts, texts that will have been edited, rewritten, embellished and partly deposed of. Therefore do you actually know for sure whose words you are reading?

JTaylor

Fair question, but a massive one to answer and it's late. Have a look at this wiki' page and we can discuss it tomorrow if you'd like.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible

WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

Good grief. The Bible was first written in the 1st century. There was no television, no telephones, no internet, no publishers to reel off endless copies of this work of fiction.
Several people read the book, and tell their friends, who tell their freinds, who tell aquaintences . . . . . . so on and so forth. After it's done the rounds, this fiction somehow is turned to fact (by those that believe).
Six hundred years later, Islam create a version of the book, to call their own.
Many many years of bloodshed follow.

For all we know, in two thousand years time 'Christians' could be praying to The Lord Harry Potter and Dumbledore Almighty, while the Muslims worship Gandalf and Bilbo Baggins.

The world would be a far better place without religion.

hodgy0_2

And thank Fvck for that - you can only imagine the sort of cr4p that would be peddled as "FACT", because it is on the Internet


Doesn't bare thinking about

hodgy0_2

Ah you have, worshipping Harry Potter, quite

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

So in answer to my own question.

Basically, they're not going to be happy until there is only 5000 of them left to go into battle with "The army of Rome" during which another chunk of them will die, but the remainder will be saved by Jesus.

You couldn't make it up, OH WAIT!!!!!

neil-h

Strictly in your opinion of course. I do find some of your posts strange JT, you seem to have a pretty good understanding of religion and interpretation. Yet you apply an outlook towards Islam which wouldn't be alien to an IS militant.

Pure speculation. No more, no less.

JTaylor

No. My opinion after decades of study and the opinion of scholars of all stripes; theist and atheist, Muslim and non-Muslim.

Well quite. I assert that IS practice Islam in accordance with the life and times of their prophet. If you (or anyone else) want to challenge this, please do so using the source texts as opposed to popular memes and soundbites from well meaning, but ill-informed apologists.

neil-h

I wasn't challenging your interpretation of the teachings themselves, that's entirely up to you. What i was challenging is the way you express those interpretations in that it comes across very much in the way "these are my views of Islam and anything else is wrong/not real Islam". Which really contrasts with your attitude towards your fellow Christians (and to a certain extent agnostics/atheists), which seems to be far more accommodating of different interpretations.

JTaylor

Yes, because Salafism is immutable and literal. Surely I've made that clear. This isn't open to interpretation, it is a matter of fact. What I will accept is that there are other branches of Islam that'll disagree with me and whilst I have sympathy with their position, I consider it wrong. This isn't arrogance or chauvinism, this is saying that 2+2=4. I consider Mohammad to be a false prophet, I view IS to be true followers of that false prophet and my heart goes out to the billions of nominal and cultural 'Muslims' who have been deceived over the past 1600 years. If you believe otherwise then perhaps you ought to consider declaring the shahada.

neil-h

Any chance you can point me in the direction of some light reading to back this up? I'd be interested to see a sensible source that demonstrates your point, seeing it's often spouted that Islam is a religion of peace but there are also a lot of people who believe the opposite.

Discussions on the ins and outs of religion aside, it's exactly that logic (in bold) that starts wars.

JTaylor

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-true-believers

Sam Harris is one of my favourite 'new atheist' writers. A quite brilliant man and a widely respected academic. There's another article of his that I can't find at the moment, I'll try and find it for you after work. I'd also recommend Sayyid Qutb to read the perspective of a Muslim scholar.

We're already at war and I reserve my right to speak as I find and go where the truth leads me. Here I stand, I can do no other.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

http://www.bmf.org/iswp/editors.html

http://muslimmatters.org/2014/04/22/...yasir-qadhi/5/

Martin2005

JT do you believe that those that don't accept Jesus into their hearts will be 'cast into the lake fire' to suffer eternal torment?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

It's surprising, considering the troubles that Mohammad has allegedly caused, that Jesus didn't issue dire warnings about his coming. Surely he would have been viewed as the antichrist?

hodgy0_2

hi Martin,

I have been over this with JT on a previous thread - not sure what one, there have been a few over the last years or two

but it is a good question

I asked it too, as I had long conversations with an evangelical Christian some 25 years ago

wasn't convinced then, happy to say still unconvinced

Martin2005

For me it kind of explodes idea that JT is happy to support that Islam is inherently bad and Christianity inherently good.

Any religion that has as a core principle the idea that non believers are to be subjected to an atrocity like eternal damnation, is sick, and doesn't believe in god. They are actually are afraid of an all powerful, bigoted, uncompassionate, small minded, thin skinned monster.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

epic take down, the woman on the panel has a point just look at the numbers

hodgy0_2

do you know who Brigitte Gabriel is?