madscoob

iTrader: (3)

no and don't care who she is either but if her numbers are right, that's a hell of a lot of people who would wish harm on us

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Throw political correctness in the garbage?

Quite right.

JTaylor

https://www.scoobynet.com/1026662-st...l#post11708079

JTaylor

http://biblehub.com/matthew/7-15.htm

neil-h

Cheers gents, that's made for some interesting reading. So there are in effect different 'flavours' of Islam in much the same way there are different 'flavours' of Christianity.

JT, I see what you mean about the IS brand of Islam being the true Islam. One of those articles makes a good point in that if God/Allah/Whatever uses there respective texts to make a point, then it's likely that the texts would say exactly what the author meant (rather than being woolly and leaving it to interpretation).

All that being said, the texts have undoubtedly been tweeked over the years by various people for various purposes and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they are a shadow of how they started. Hence my feeling that if you go back far enough then most religions start at the same point (assuming of course there is an almighty being).

Paben

iTrader: (5)

In light of the many wars waged in His name, how would Jesus be viewed were the same concerns applied to him?

JTaylor

First, wars may well have been waged in the Lord's name, but that's not owing to His teachings or the example He set or because said warriors had been emulating Him. The same cannot be said of Mohammad. Secondly, if one believes that Jesus is or was a false prophet, they are free to not follow Him in the same way as I reject Mohammad. One of us may be wrong, or both of us, and that is part of what faith is.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

That's a facile response and doesn't answer the question. Who chooses to follow or not follow does not ratify or condemn the message or the messenger. The charge of 'false prophet' could be levelled at Jesus just as readily as at Mohammad, as evidence casts doubt on both. But this is not the point. The point is that the teachings of both can be twisted to mean almost anything one cares to read into them.

JTaylor

If you think the life and teachings of Jesus and Mohammad are equivalent then you don't know them.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Perhaps you don't.

Martin2005

Aren't you being a bit selective here?

daviee

How can ISIS deem this as a enemy

JTaylor

In what sense, Martin?

JTaylor

Well, we can discuss epistemological philosophy if you wish, Paben, but I'm not sure it will prove helpful. My knowledge is justified and distinct from opinion.

neil-h

Is it not generally accepted that the documentation of said teachings has been 'adjusted' over the years? In which case is it not possible that the teachings of both Jesus and Muhammad are different spins on the acts of the same person?

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

That`s the problem with beliefs, and their adjustments, over a couple of thousand years. It is an undeniable fact that religious zealots cause a disproportionate amount of the world`s intolerance and hatred.

RobJenks

Andrew Neil pretty well sums up the sand maggot terrorists.

JTaylor

Well, this is not something I've ever heard of or read as a proposal so I'd recommend you complete a well researched thesis or paper and get it peer reviewed.

hodgy0_2

lol, the application of the scientific method to a set of beliefs

JTaylor

Are you suggesting theologians and historians don't write theses and papers and have them peer reviewed?

hodgy0_2

Peer reviewed based on people beliefs and opinions, sure no problem with that

warrenm2

err humm - back on topic....?

JTaylor

You appear to have an issue with the historical method and you confuse it with faith. Do you question the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth and do you throw out all the evidence for His character and life. That is the real leap of faith...nothing more than a stab in the dark.

JTaylor

This is on topic. It's an attempt to unpick the minds of those who've been subjected to years of indoctrination by cultural relativists. The very idea that Islam may be responsible for Islamic State is an affront to many peoples' learnt responses. This equivalence, this relativism, is so deeply entrenched that we have bright people suggesting that Mohammad and Jesus are and were the same man and that the historical method is nothing more than belief and opinion. People need to wake up!

neil-h

There's no need to get defensive about it, I was just putting forward a counter view point.

You only need to look at discussions around translations of the bible (King James for instance) to see that there are parts that have drifted away from the original text in one way or another.

JTaylor

There is a need to get defensive about truth. I hear you regarding translation, I attended a Bible study around the Greek word doulós which means slave, but was translated in the KJV variously as bond-servant and servant and was done so for political reasons. The point is the original Greek text was and is available so theologians and linguists are able to re-evaluate meaning. This doesn't detract from the essence of the message and does not change the fact that Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross.

hodgy0_2

seems to be some more **** going down in Mali

the world seems to be getting a worse and more dangerous place in the last 20 years

neil-h

Agreed, the worrying thing being that I'm not sure I care.

hodgy0_2

well, yes - if you plan to retire to a gated community or escape to the hills like a US survivalist

aka do a "ray mears"

but if you have a more global outlook and hate to see parts of the world "off limits"

it is a shame

my eldest is planning a gap yuh -

with all the dangers of disease, travel on dodgy boats / planes and trains we know have to worry about some lunatic opening up with an AK47

I travelled throughout Asia (after a stop-off in Damascus) in my late teens / 20's

even spending a few weeks in Kashmir

would not be possible today :-(

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And still the mouthy left tell us the terrorists aren't winning