Anyone in the Solar panel business?
27 December 2015, 05:56 PM
#31
The whole system is skewed and misleading. The best solar panels are only at best 22% efficient so any drop off in performance will have a huge impact in efficiency. By the time you start to make back the install cost you will need to replace panels. Repairs are linked to the original installation company, so will be prohibitively expensive. Selling your home will be problematic if new owners don't want solar panels and the roof is still leased to the solar company.
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
27 December 2015, 09:07 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
You have missed the point as i like petrol engine cars including subarus big V8`s etc.and think life is to short to worry about saving a bit on electricity in 10 years time as life is for living and the planet has been here for millions of years and survived so rev up and go like a bat out of hell i say.
27 December 2015, 11:15 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
The whole system is skewed and misleading. The best solar panels are only at best 22% efficient so any drop off in performance will have a huge impact in efficiency. By the time you start to make back the install cost you will need to replace panels. Repairs are linked to the original installation company, so will be prohibitively expensive. Selling your home will be problematic if new owners don't want solar panels and the roof is still leased to the solar company.
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
Last edited by wrx300scooby; 27 December 2015 at 11:20 PM.
27 December 2015, 11:37 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
You have missed the point as i like petrol engine cars including subarus big V8`s etc.and think life is to short to worry about saving a bit on electricity in 10 years time as life is for living and the planet has been here for millions of years and survived so rev up and go like a bat out of hell i say.
so for me the extra I get is more than welcome
28 December 2015, 11:46 AM
#36
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28 December 2015, 11:57 AM
#37
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The whole system is skewed and misleading. The best solar panels are only at best 22% efficient so any drop off in performance will have a huge impact in efficiency. By the time you start to make back the install cost you will need to replace panels. Repairs are linked to the original installation company, so will be prohibitively expensive. Selling your home will be problematic if new owners don't want solar panels and the roof is still leased to the solar company.
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
Planning happily allows panels on roofs without permission but puts up barriers for ground install which would be easier and cheaper. Solar works only during daylight. You need loads for decent power generation.
If you think it's viable and the issues mentioned can all be overcome or ignored if you're an idiot then go for it
Panel efficiency is simply the amount of power produced per m2 of panel area. A 22% efficient panel produces 220w per m2 of panel area.
If you fit lower efficiency panels you just need a bigger roof to get the system capacity that you require.
Cheers
Steve
28 December 2015, 12:25 PM
#38
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I work in the industry and have been selling solar panels, amongst other renewable products, for several years.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
28 December 2015, 02:00 PM
#39
My mates dad is one of the world leaders in solar panel technology (this dude..... http://www.uva.nl/en/news-events/new...onversion.html). At the moment he does not have solar panels due to various factors with one being the inefficiency of them. However I spoke to him last week as I am debating getting some and he has said that by this time next year the panels will be around the 45% efficiency mark.
28 December 2015, 02:22 PM
#41
I work in the industry and have been selling solar panels, amongst other renewable products, for several years.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
Got someone coming round next Tuesday for a survey but will not commit to any pressure selling techniques if they attempt that route.
28 December 2015, 04:55 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
28 December 2015, 04:56 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
I work in the industry and have been selling solar panels, amongst other renewable products, for several years.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
Firstly, let me say that if you are doing this you have until the 14th January to get your system installed and commissioned and you might not be able to get your first choice installer/equipment.
With regards to price, you should expect to pay around £5,500-6,000 for a decent installer using decent equipment based on a string inverter. You'll be £6,000-6,500 for a micro-inverter based package. You can get cheaper than this if you use a small one man band (i.e. spark with his MCS) company but you'll need to research carefully to ensure he has the credentials/experience/after care, etc.
Do not pay more than indicated above regardless of what the person tells you about the 'panel' or 'inverter'. Those prices are for high quality stuff and the only time you should pay more is if you are getting a SunPower solar panel (even then, you are paying mostly for the name).
I'll try to address some of the other issues/myths raised in the thread:
Get your panels for free
No disrespect to the member that has done this but, I'd day that in 99.9% of cases this is a bad idea. You effectively rent your roof to a 3rd party and this can create all manner of issues in the future if you sell or re-mortgage. Many of these companies also require you to inform them of system failure and will charge you for lost FIT revenue if you don't. The only benefit you get is the free electricity but on average you'll probably not be able to use more than about 35% of what is produced. Assuming 3500 kWh per annum, that's 1225kWh of free electricity put to use. In monetary terms, that's about £160 saved per year on your bill (at best).
The FIT is what makes solar and, at the current rate, it's worth about £550-600 per year giving it a lifetime value of about £12,000. When a system costs around £6,000 to put in, you'd be better to finance it and shell out £1,500 in interest payments as that way you have complete ownership and control of your system and get the £12,000 FIT payments that more than cover the £7,500 total cost.
Panel Quality
The best panels in the world are SunPower, they repeatedly ace independent yield tests. However, of the 180-odd panels tested 90% of them are within about 5% of the test winners annual yield output. In short, if you get 10 quotes for 10 different panels the chances are the annual output of all the panels will be within a few percent of each other. The physical build quality or health of the manufacturing company are far more important considerations. The biggest mistake I see is consumers getting all hung up on the panel when a poor installation can reduce the yield of any array by far more than a few percentage points.
Panels aren't efficient yet
The panel isn't what holds your domestic installation back, it's the regulations. When installing a solar system your installer will make a G83 notification to the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) to inform them of the connection. As it sounds, this is simply a "notification" not an "application". On a single phase power supply the maximum amperage for a power generating technology is 16A. At 230v, 16A = 3680W (P=IV), so your 4kW array in peak conditions will actually be capped to this output or less by the inverter. To put more power on the grid you'd need to make a G59 application and that will incur significant additional cost and hassle (especially if the DNO requires a transformer upgrade).
So, if you double the efficiency of the average panel all it means is that your 4kW array becomes half the size. This is nice from an aesthetic point of view and is good for those people that can only fit 2-3kW on their current roof. However, if your roof can take a 4kW array now then there is little advantage. The only place you will gain an advantage as panels get better is non-peak performance (i.e. low light conditions, etc). If you think of the production curve as similar to a torque curve it would benefit greatly by adding more performance at the bottom.
28 December 2015, 09:53 PM
#45
My mates dad is one of the world leaders in solar panel technology (this dude..... http://www.uva.nl/en/news-events/new...onversion.html). At the moment he does not have solar panels due to various factors with one being the inefficiency of them. However I spoke to him last week as I am debating getting some and he has said that by this time next year the panels will be around the 45% efficiency mark.
Obviously worked.Now they're all but gone the new technology is being released and the incentives have gone, surprise surprise.
Also looked into wind generation and it's a similar deal in that by the time you're at breakeven the turbine is about fubard, also storage was a problem with the amount of batteries required and their life span.
I decided to hang fire and see where the market goes as it's about to go through some big changes over the next couple of years.
31 December 2015, 04:38 PM
#46
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Has anyone looked into a roof built from solar panels ? I found a website a few months ago with a product that used what looked like plastic tiles with solar inserts they could build an entire roof from. The closest I can find now is solar roof shingles. I will be self building an eco 6 house next year and I have no choice about having a ground source heat pump, and a solar powered roof so I really want save money as an eco 6 building is a full on pain in the **** with a huge pricetag.
01 January 2016, 11:00 AM
#50
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My issue with in roof systems is cooling. Solar panels lose efficiency as they heat up which is why systems that sit a few cm proud of the roof gain a natural cooling effect from air movement across the back of the panel.
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