britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

And there in a nutshell is the absurdity of it all, Jt you sound like a good person to me but if you decide to change your beliefs you deserve to be hanged as a traitor?

Yet others can abuse children, rape, murder and commit all sorts of other atrocities. But as long as they carry on believing in God and ask for forgiveness they are OK in his eyes

Bizarre does not even describe it, what does describe it is:

The number one aim of all religion is the absolute requirement to believe over and above anything else, religion cannot afford to reduce the number of potential followers as that would be self deprecating.

Hence a child abusing priest gets away with it because he still believes but if you dare to not believe then ur hanged as a traitor or going to hell, it's all nothing but scare stories designed to make u believe or you must fear the consequences. That is not a nice premise to base any belief system on if you ask me

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

How am I having a go? My beliefs don't forbid sex before marriage.

Your beliefs do, so surely if they are true beliefs you should abstain from sex before marriage? But you don't.

Seriously not having a go, just stating the facts

Edited this post to add this:

I don't care less if you have sex before marriage, that is something you have imposed on yourself by choosing to be a Christian, if you are truly a Christian then surely you can't be picking and choosing on the basis of ur own pleasure.

JTaylor

You've missed Islam (15%) and Christianity (2.5%) which accounts for more than 200 million souls. Hindus account for 80%.

You assume wrong. As Swati attested earlier, Hindus revere Jesus as a holy man and the 180 million Muslims I mention above all recognise Jesus as a major prophet. Including the 2.5% Christians, that's 97.5% of all Indians who revere and worship Jesus.

As I've stated on at least a dozen occasions it is my firm belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father.

Fair question, but I see you've answered it below.

Jesus redeemed my life. He is my God.

JTaylor

In all honesty, BB, I think you've a fixed view of Christianity and there seems to be little point in defending the faith or apologising for it. If you have specific questions that you'd like me to answer I will have a good go, but I don't want to spend my time unpicking straw. Do a bit of research before you ask to save me having to do it for you. Apologies if this comes across as abrupt.

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

Blah Blah Blah.....

I'll tell you what I believe in.

SCIENCE FACTS TANGIBILITY

None of which any religion can provide. Buddhism being the exception.

How can so many people make such huge assumptions based on a fallacy handed down over such a long period of time? How much detail has been lost from the original story? How much has been added which is completely untrue? The whole thing is untrue, so I am still baffled why there is such a following.

And thats all that it is, a story, a fallacy, maybe even a joke!

I have no doubt that Jesus did actually exist, and was all that people reported him to be. Apart from two huge misinterpretations of the facts.

1. Certainly no son of god.

2. I no way shape or form was there any type resurrection. At most he was not dead in the first place.

Science itself proves that we are a result of evolution. Not some plaything of some ultra all powerful non existent fallacy you call god.

I hate the fact that religion causes so many conflicts throughout the world. Why is this, please explain!

But would we find something else to fight over if religion was non-existent?

But there is some hope for the future of the human race. It appears that more and more people are waking up, more and more people are actually using their own minds, as opposed to believing what idiotic and inane preachers would have them believe.

A religion free world is a free world.

But remember, the world is flat!

neil-h

Starts post complaining about people making assumptions and encouraging the use of facts. Concludes post with sweeping assumptions lacking in facts.

JTaylor

We're all hypocrites, Neil.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

If that were true we would not have the likes of ISIS spreading their distorted version of Islam, nor would thousands be flocking to their banner.

JTaylor

In what way is IS's version of Islam distorted?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

'It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent' might be good place to start. Also Jihad in Islam is supposedly defensive war not offensive. Plenty of other examples as I supect you well know. This hasn't influenced Isis in any way nor its growing number of followers. No different to Christianity when the cause demands it.

JTaylor

Interesting. I thought you might have apologised for Islam, yet you actively criticise Christianity. So are you of the view that the teachings of Islam and the teachings of Christianity are coequal?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I am pointing out that when the situation demands it both religions hoist the Jolly Roger irrspective of their official doctrines.

JTaylor

Thanks. Are there precedents set by the founders of both religions that give their followers mandate to wage war?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Who knows? Hardly anything (for that perhaps read nothing?) factual is known about either founder. I was brought up in a Christian family, attended Christian schools and I believe that every Regimental Collect in the British Army is entirely Christian based, even that of the Gurkhas. So a lot of death has been dished out in the name of the Trinity, hardly surprising that Islamists play the same game when it suits them.

JTaylor

Ok, same question based on Scripture and the Qur'an.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Assuming Scripture and Koran are based on the words and actions of the founders, and these are seemingly entirely unknown, what value may be placed on the subsequent writings that are attributed to them?

JTaylor

Enough value for you to claim war is waged off the back of said writings.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I'm claiming nothing. I'm just saying that when it suits, war is waged in the names of the respective founders.
'God favours the big battalions' is a cynical comment on the tendency of armies to send their soldiers off to war with the assurance that God fully supports their cause. Bit of a dilemma for God, of course, when being invoked by both sides.

JTaylor

Where is a precedent set by Jesus in the New Testament for Christians to wage war and is there one, set by Mohammad, in the Qur'an?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

As noted earlier the true words of the two founders are both unknown and unknowable, therefore both Koran and Scriptures are hearsay that would fare poorly if presented in a court of law as fact.

JTaylor

So going back to post 968, how can you confidently declare that IS have "distorted" Islam and when challenged cite the Qur'an as evidence of this. Yet above you claim that that evidence has no veracity. I guess we're all hypocrites.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

You're too fond of the word hypocrite for my liking; you can speak for yourself in that regard if you wish as you have admitted to being one, but don't presume to hang that lable around my neck.

I can confidently claim that Isis has distorted Islam as it is propounded by its followers, without that being an assumption that the Koran reflects the true words of the founder. They are unknown. Just as the true words of Jesus are unknown. Just as the words of Henry V at Agincourt, as proposed by Shakespeare, although regularly quoted, cetainly don't reflect Henry's actual words. Hearsay is hearsay however it is presented and by whom.

JTaylor

Which followers and from what source did they construct their religion?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Western scholars have come to believe that the Bible is nothing more than variant traditions woven into a single text, thus invalidating the Bible as a true record. Muslim scholars have interpreted this as somehow validating the Koran, conveniently overlooking the fact that the same doubts can be equally applied to the Koran.

JTaylor

Ok, so how have IS distorted Islam if you imply that there is no "true record" and that Mohammad's teachings have not been accurately captured? Upon what are you basing your confident assertion?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Stop acting dim, you're beginning to sound like your record player needs a firm tap. You know very well that I am referring to the Koran as it is written, not the unknowable words of the supposed writer and founder of Islam. And you choose to completely ignore the considered thoughts of Western scholars in relation to the bible. Or are they too disturbing for you to consider?

JTaylor

Ok, good. So can I please refer you back to the question in #975. I simply want to get to the bottom of whether you think the foundational texts of Islam and Christianity deliver a coequal message. Are they philosophically equivalent?

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Ok good what? Both texts, Bible and Koran, are agreed by scholars to be contrived and thus invalid. Any conclusions thus derived from them, philisophical or otherwise, are therefore without foundation and similarly invalid. All I've said is that Isis has misinterpreted the invalid text of the Koran.

JTaylor

Well actually you said that IS "distorted" Islam, which suggests that there is a straight and true application of the text. How are you measuring this, please?

lozgti1

C'mon.Let's get to a 1000 posts.God does exist and those that deny it are just angry about life and love to dismiss and pour scorn.However no one seems to have an idea or understanding of life,the Universe or anything really.Pretty much like the scientists who have worked out,errrrr...........nothing

Sure they are very clever really or will catch up