Some things never change eh?

All good with me... back in UK for a short time, but crazy busy so don't worry I won't be back here like the old days Anyway must fly, have fun all

 

I posted some of my thoughts regarding the EU here but agree there is more to this than immigration. But unfortunately all we ever hear about in the media/social media is immigration. For example, whenever this subject comes up on QT, questions are nearly always based on immigration, no one seems to care about the financial/economic implications. I guess immigration has the most immediate/direct and, more importantly, a visible and tangible affect to what most of the general public perceive. And clearly the politicians on both sides here and across the Channel aren't helping either.

 

I did say I left this thread to rot through lack of serious/levelheaded discussion. I did, and sought it elsewhere.

So just to contribute and share an insight of this I thought I'd post this link:

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

It's heavy going and whilst I've not completed reading it's clear that there is more than a few issues which are lacking within our own government and also the memberships of groups/organisation of which we are bound to by treaties which are separate to the EU (ECHR as one example ).

Being out of the EU won't affect these, but maybe put a highlight on further reforms after the dust has settled; assuming we ever get politicians who are able to tackle and reform.

One guarantee is that if there were an 'Out' majority, and we actually did exit, it will not be swift and could take many years and would still leave issues (listed in the linked document) unresolved; That is assuming we do leave, which is something I still question is that would our government let us leave despite a referendum majority to leave.



Hi F1. Blimey, internet on a plane- last long haul I did still had the stethoscope/tube-headphones for entertainment LOL.

We seem to be stumbling into more common ground of recent times which made me wonder have I changed, or you? Maybe both of us

 

Your grandparents are your ancestors, right? What has their contribution got to do with you? When they die (and so become like any other dead ancestor), please enlighten me as to why it makes any difference that they paid in to something.

You don't really get social responsibility, do you?


Indeed, old people are biggest burden on the UK. Not immigrants, not unemployed.

But that notwithstanding, would you care to explain how all these immigrants got these jobs? Was there such job vacuum that they rushed in like air to fill the void? I don't recall seeing articles about people being fired in favour of immigrants, so either it's a myth, or the indigenous population didn't want/couldn't do those jobs. Which is it?


Maybe if you gave a satisfactory answer as to why the UK will go down the sh!tter we could offer a response?

There is loads left. We are not Sudan, you know, we are one of the strongest and largest economies in the world!

Your assertion was that you should not 'chuck good money after bad'. Well, continually giving out benefits to the UK population, unabated is exactly that. My answer, though you failed to see it, or possibly didn't want to, was that to highlight that depriving people of essentials, no matter how bitter a pill to swallow, is not on the general interest. Straw man was a weak answer, but slightly better than IAJFFE, your usual, lacklustre response.


There is though.



To try and reduce the national debt. However, that doesn't mean we stop spending, on whatever that may be.

Can you possibly just give us some good economic reasons for leaving the EU? Immigration and beauracracy won't really be that different in or out.

 

I was reminded the other day that whilst the "outers" complain about immigration from the former soviet bloc

it was the UK, that was one of the biggest advocates of "EU Enlargement"

Margaret Thatcher - 1988

We must never forget that east of the Iron Curtain, people who once enjoyed a full share of European culture, freedom and identity have been cut off from their roots. We shall always look on Warsaw, Prague and Budapest as great European cities’.

John Major - 1995

"‘I believe we must spread stability and democracy across a wider Europe. Eastern and central Europe have been the cockpit of war through the centuries. But we now have a historic opportunity: to bind them into a Single Market and the democratic embrace of western Europe. That is why enlargement of the European Union remains a vital objective’."

obviously as a tactic to dilute the power of the then big three

 

my grandparents paid in so their children and granchildren could take out. So did my parents.

You are talking bollo.

Not to those form outside the UK, when there is so much poverty, suffering, joblessness etc INSIDE.

Take your liberal ideas and shove them.

You are another IAJFEE.




IBull. WHERE are you getting your figures? Tory central? Old people paid for their pensions. Recent immigrants have put little or nothing in yet. WHY should they take out?

it's neither.

it's mainly that they will work for less. I know of six lads training to be platers, ALL made redundant, so the company owner could save a few bob employing six supposedly fully trained Polish welders, who would work for minimum wage or less. meanwhile, the owner bought his seventh new car to go in his seven car garage.

You just don't get it...if it's not happening to YOU, it's not happening, right?




What part of £1.5 TRILLION in debt do you not get? WHY do you think we have austerity affecting so many of our own, yet idiots like you want to give money away???



back to fairyland again. if there's so much left, and we are soooooo strong, why the austerity?



Do you have a response, or are you just waffling again?




There is though.





Of course it does. If you go bankrupt, they STOP you spending like an idiot, giving it away, gambling, drugs etc. That's what YOU want the UK to do...chuck money at countries who will then take our jobs...as has already happened. Good money after bad.

I have done so. And who says? you???? LOL

1. we will no longer have to follow their rules, while the rest of them don't.
2. knock-on from that: nowhere for government to hide for silly decisions.
3. saving huge sums of money EVERY DAY.
4. Stop giving money to countries to take our jobs.
5. No more unlimited immigration.
6. More control of our own spending, borders etc.
7. No need to adhere to quotas others don't.

That should be enough to go on with.


And one last one: Mandelsson says we should stay in. This is the man who was sacked from TWO cabinet posts for dishonesty, so whatever HE says, we should do the opposite.

 

And, of course, Thatcher and Major were such BRILLIANT politicians.......

 

You clearly don't understand how the state pensions are funded then.
The money today's pensioners put in when they were working is long since spent. Spent on the people in retirement when they were working.
What will fund today's pensioners is today's taxpayers.

 

OK, so it works in reverse. same as, same as.

The point being that we can't afford to give our taxes to those who won't or can't pay in, from outside the UK. We have enough here already.

Again...£1.5 TRILLION!!!!

 

Our near neighbours have similar levels debt !

 

So explain how it is that, when I travel to France, a supposed basket case in economic terms, and Belgium...no better apparently, they are building new roads, railways, bridges, science parks, shopping centres, artisan centres, logistics centres etc etc every time I go. There's something new on my route. Stuff being built. Dangerous roads being re-aligned, repaired etc etc.

Yet in the UK, apart form a bit in the SE: nothing.

I just don't believe what is said.

 

Not what I see. A load of development in South Wales and have just come back from Plymouth and it was like a different city from the last time I was down there.

 

everybody understands it, it's a legal ponzi scheme,

 

JT: I'd invite you to come and look at Humberside: Scunthorpe, Hull, Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Killingholme, Immingham, if I had room.

There is land STILL available in Scunthorpe, for example, since the Tories closed one of our steelworks in 1980...that's 35 years!!! And little or nothing. Hull and Scunthorpe are three of the most depressed areas in the UK...in fact one area of Scunthorpe was second only to one of the London Boroughs under Labour, John Prescott's department said so

This weeks sees the last shift at the larger of the two coke ovens at the remaining works, a total of 900 jobs on the works alone, gone in three months. And that's not counting the contractors and associated support industries. The town is dying on it's feet.

Meanwhile, the Germans and Italians gave financial and energy help to THEIR steel industries WITHOUT ASKING THE EU. We asked, had permission denied and away we go...yet again THAT'S why I loathe the EU, the dishonesty.

Grimsby and Hull have seen their fishing decimated, with Britain being allocated only 30% of the fish from our own waters. Most Cod and Haddock landed at Gy or Hull are now caught by Icelandic boats.....you remember...the little island that defeated the royal navy, thanks to our great friends the USA

There is always TALK about new ports and new industries on the Humber, but we never SEE any...and what is in the area is slowly dying due to EU manoeuvring(sp).

Meanwhile, Redcar is even worse off: their works has already closed.

But hey...north of Watford, who cares?

The EU fees we pay daily could help THIS area out of the hole it's in, that's for sure.

The Tories recently gave the whole area £3M, less than 1/6 of what we pay daily to the EU at the lowest rate stated, and it's supposed to do good here for FIVE YEARS!!

 

No it's taxation

 

For one so unlucky don't you think that you should support the opposite viewpoint?

 

That really does come down to a matter of opinion does it not.

 

<iframe width="665" height="429" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qPb91eT80L8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

 

Aye, make a joke of it.
IAJFEE.

 

It's not a joke. If failure is a certainty for anything you undertake you could be a massive success simply by throwing your best efforts into something you detest. Or you could make a fortune like that fat American golfer who reckoned he was paid $100,000 a year by Nike not to wear their clothes.

 

I guess the French and others have to cope with a lot more actual refugee thus infrastructure

After all , it's illegal send em home , according to unhcr

 

free health care in france for them

 

watch the norway one after on the same youtube link,
humvee's and minigun time if i had my way

 

Well I'm impressed , they speak very fine American

lol

 

useful tip, read the comments on YouTube and have a have a proper look at that video. It's not immigrants in Norway.

 

http://j.mp/24L7rfV

Forty-three years of broken EU promises.

 

Mine was migrants.

 

lmbo i never said it was norway, didn't the humvee reference give it away for all you intelligent types

 

dunno what youre trying to say ?