I personally believe that any government, will always find a way to implement what they want, unpopular or not, blaming it on someone or something.

I accept that leaving the EU would give them one less thing to hide behind, but I also believe that they would find something else. I imagine that the WTO, or still having to acquiesce to EU standards to be able to trade with them, will give them more than enough places to hide.

Leaving the EU doesn't get rid of those problems, it just means they won't be EU problems!

 

I like it, the CBI commissions PwC to produce a report on the effects on the economy regarding a Brexit (no doubt hoping that this will highlight issues from leaving the EU), but the report has found the UK is likely to see 'significant economic growth' in the medium/long term after leaving the EU, due to reduced costs and regulation on businesses! The 'stay in' campaign is really struggling to come up with some genuine reasons to not get out!

http://www.cityam.com/237301/the-cbi...apsing?ref=yfp

 

Unelected commisioners in Brussels telling you what to do, or home grown democracy? This guy has something to say on people power...

 

This from the guy who wanted to spend all your tax dollars on star wars , !


indeed I think dear Ronnie may been one step up the crazy scale from trump

 

Thats because you have the analytical skills of a slug, the Dunning–Kruger effect personified

 

Yet it was the very threat of Star Wars, which in reality was never going to work, that finally broke the Soviet Union.

 

Anybody would think you were an army man Paben

 

out here

**** the EU !

 

I think you will get your wish Pete. I can see this vote going your way

 

Here's the real deal clincher for me. I don't really care that much about the rest of it, but if we exit the EU, expect US type misery for mobile usage abroad


https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/roaming

 

There are so many places now have free wifi, hardly a great need for data. If you're really desperate pop into mobile phone shop, buy a cheap Sim for a week, job done.

No need to stay in the EU for any measly reason

 

I've got a feeling the measly reasons will soon add up though and I also reckon there'll be far more "measly reasons" than anyone actually realises.

 

How many of you voted in the referendum in 1975?

I did .

A big NO from me and a big NO again this time.

Circa 70% yes and 30% No was the result in 1975.
What do you imagine the vote would have been if the public could have seen 40 years into the future?
I reckon the numbers would have been reversed.

The current polls are indicating an effective tie at the moment with 20% still undecided.
I think it will be close , but I think the yes vote -To remain in the EU vote will get over the line.The British don't relish change and for that reason only I think we will stay in the EU.

Whatever the outcome, I just hope Britain will rally and that future generations do not look back at 2016 and dam us for the decision we made.

 

You can guarantee that whatever decision is made, a significant proportion of the population will look back and damn us!

 

Yes it's going to be very close. I think that the Leave voters are more motivated than Remain in general, that could be key in terms of turnout.


My gut tells me we leaving - unfortunately

 

The fact we are having a referendum at all indicates they general feeling of discontent with the EU. Do you want another 40 years of discontent or are you going to be brave and do something different?


Time and again the politician of the day have 'got us a better deal' The EU isn't giving us what we want, doesn't play fair, is corrupt and self serving, do you want more of the same?


To keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result is insanity. Be brave, suck it up, vote out and lets take ownership of our own destiny

 

i thought remain has 10% above

 

I voted in 1975, and at the time, I voted YES.

BUT: I was voting for a common market, NOT a federal superstate with all countries subservient to the state and no-one with responsibility, no-one we could vote out, anyway.
And certainly NOT for the inclusion of the dross countries we now have in, countries that are still bleeding the system nearly twenty years later.

While I was out in France over Easter, we had a meal at the neighbours. I asked them, veal farmers, (not the caged sort), how they felt about Britain leaving.

Their reply? Go as soon as you can....and for God's sake let us follow soon after!

 

What I find amusing about comments like these, is that people actually think our own government is not exactly the same!

Also, the EU is not a load of unelected bureaucrats, as Leave would have you believe. The EU commission is made up of people who are nominated by the member states to represent them. They propose laws, but those laws have to be ratified by MEPs, who are directly elected by us.

To complain that the EU Commission representative for the UK is unelected, and therefore unfair, is as daft as complaining that the Treasurer is unelected.

Whitehall is full of 'faceless bureaucrats', who have a great deal of input and influence to our laws, doesn't seem to bother Leave one bit.

Taking our destiny in to our own hands just means the government will be able to serve their own interests even more effectively without a lot of the controls the EU has put in place to protect people.

 

Well that's it then, this place is the only answer


http://www.sealandgov.org/

 

I like it: I wonder what they'd charge to be an Emperor?

 

a plus ça changes as the French say

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/plu..._la_même_chose

 

Interesting,

I was having drinks with some v old friends last Friday in London - one of whoms siblings is in the current Cabinet - and is an prominent "outer"

We all agreed that "in" is probably a better option, but a what surprised me was the view of a person who I very much respect

Who said he thought we would vote "out" - tbh this had not hit me (with all the ramifications) until he said it

Interesting times

 

In light of Obama's comments at the weekend, what do the leavers propose will be the state of the UK economy if we exit?

I know you will just say he saying stuff for whatever reason and that won't be the case, but

a) you don't know that, it could be true
b) if it is, how do you see things panning out?

Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

I believe that there will be an initial shock to the system. then it will settle down. Obama making a threat we go to the back of the queue is just rhetoric, same for the EU.
The USA and UK are the biggest investors in each others economy with billions of commerce between them a well as many nationals working living in each other countries. There is a huge incentive and drive by world powers to keep the status quo and not upset the apple cart. The american's want TTIP so have an interest in keeping the EU together.

The EU is beginning to crumble, Britain leaving will only accelerate this, others will follow. So it would be better to leave and get our economy back on track before the EU does it for us by collapsing in an un-controlled manner.

There a no guarantees in life but having our own destiny and not being tied to others who might take the UK down a path we didn't vote for or want has to be very attractive proposition.

 

So how many years of turmoil would you be prepared to accept? 5? 10? 15?

We still haven't recovered form the last financial crisis, so 8 years and counting, but possibly exacerbate the problems by leaving the EU.

And for what? No guarantee of it being better, not even a model to be honest. Probably not a great deal different on immigration, still having to follow alot of EU rules but having no say?

 

How much more "turmoil" do you want? With money disappearing, accounts not ratified, money poured into the coffers of basket case economies, more joining (Albania for one!!!) and all the dishonesty and corruption? Bear in mind that the EU has been directly responsible for the removal of two legally elected heads of state so far...how much power do YOU want them to have???

Let's be straight, here, we need to take the chance to move away from all that, because not only is it directly affecting the UK, but we are PAYING FOR IT TO DO SO!!!

Lunacy.

And now the Greeks say that if we leave, they follow...and I reckon the French just might jump ship too.

 

Advocating 'better the devil you know' etc is a poor reason to maintain the status quo and certainly no way to run a country. And exactly why would we have to follow EU rules were we to leave? And why would immigration not change?

 

That will probably depend what kind of relationship we would want with the EU (post Brexit).
The only examples we really have are Norway and Switzerland, both pay for access to the Single Market (in the case of Norway more per head than the UK), both have to comply with EU rules. Both had to sign up to free movement of people (again Norway has higher net migration per capita than the UK).


Now we may be able to come up with something better, but again, it's just another unknown, in a sea of unknowns that surround the Brexit campaign

 

I could point you at plenty of dishonesty and corruption within the UK government, most of it has been covered in these forums over the years, no doubt you complained against that too, but now strangely seem to discount it as if it's not as bad as an in the EU.