Where did I say it did? It was you that said we have more to lose etc. Justify it.

 

What's your point, mastermind?

 

'Where did I say it'... well I guess I must of got the wrong idea when you said that the EU threatens our freedoms!!!!

'Justify it'....I did!

 

I realise that it is well beyond pointless discussing anything with you if you really believe that I belittle the sacrifice of our servicemen and women. That's just a cheap shot, and totally out of order.

 

I would argue that in the long term the EU WOULD curtail the rights of citizens. A bit of research into the Hegelian Dialectic goes some way in understanding this theory.

The orchestrated mass invasion of Europe last year by 1m+ third world muslims is clearly a deliberate attempt to stoke up tensions and even violence among the people of Europe. The "solution" will be presented by the elites in the form of ever greater surveillance by governments and the imposition of an effective police state. People will welcome this intervention through fear even if it reduces personal freedoms.

Most people will find this idea ludicrous and impossible to believe however I would ask you to just ask yourselves the following: with all the politicians, civil servants, quangos and "think tanks" we Europeans pay to make the right decisions for us...why on Earth would any sane government(s) believe sudden mass immigration of low IQ, largely poorly educated, adherents of the religion of peace could ever bring about anything other than total chaos, enormous upheaval and massive taxpayer burden?! One would have to be borderline delusional to believe anything different.

I am NOT opposed to protecting and offering refuge for people genuinely fleeing conflict in fear of their lives. However the overwhelming majority of recent arrivals in Europe are economic migrants and NOT refugees. Our wonderful mainstream media have done a great job of obfuscating the reality of the situation in this regard - a prime example being the hysteria whipped up by one dead child washed up on a beach.

 

And the 4 million people in camps in countries around Syria, what are they?
'Economic refugees'?

 

I don't deny they are genuine refugees. There is no reason not to accept controlled numbers in European countries but to allow millions is sheer lunacy - regardless of their intentions. It is MUCH more cost effective to help these people in the middle east and NOT try to integrate them into European societies.

 

I agree, but we didn't help them where they were, now we see the consequences.
I really don't think this some kind of conspiracy, far more likely to be one big ****-up.
Unfortunately politicians are paralysed when it comes to genuinely doing what is needed in situations like Syria, because it costs a lot of money, and Western societies are full of short sighted people like Alcazar, who oppose spending money outside of their own country.

 

With freedom comes responsibility

My general impression is The iq of the potential asylum seeker is above average

 

Based upon what? Average for their own country? Perhaps. Western standards? Think again. Given the majority of arrivals to Europe have been from Muslim countries, you may find the following enlightening:

https://www.questia.com/library/jour...and-non-muslim

Anyway, this is meant to be a discussion about the EU specifically so I'll let it get back on track.

 

In Germany the argument is quite simple. The 'native' German population is severly shrinking as the average family is just 1.2 children. Couple with that the fact that people are also living longer, there is a massive looming problem about how they can possibly afford the future pensions.

After a couple of decades of trying to reverse the decline via tax incentives has had little effect, they will now progressively increase the retirement age to 67 over the next 10 years. Now, the solution has landed on their doorstep with a million migrants arriving to potentially foot the pensions bill. The migrants have been extremely welcome in Germany.

As for the notion that they are all low IQ and pooly educated is complete rubbish and meerly highlights your lack of understanding of the subject. In fact it is often the people with higher IQs and education that will make the calculated risk to endanger their lives travelling in search of a better life for them and their families.

 

It sounds like prejudiced ****e to me

And you brought it up

 

There is that argument but arguably Germany has created more problems for itself than it will ever solve with this course of action. If the migrants have been extremely welcome it seems odd that support for AFD has grown substantially.
It also runs counter to fairly widely publicised stories of vastly increased crime following the migrant influx. I've not been to Germany (I notice you have!) so it could all be scaremongering for all I know.

I did not state they are ALL low IQ and poorly educated. It is a simple fact that they are relatively so when compared to European populations. As for seeking a better life for their families - it seems odd that there are so relatively few women and children.

 

Yes let's keep it on track - about the EU

And not be diverted by some white supremacist who believes in all sorts of nonsense regarding IQ and race

 

I have read a lot of reports in the UK media regarding the migrant crisis and its quite laughable how misrepresentitive they usually are.

I've heard how Germany has closed the border to Austria and Schengen zone is falling apart. I live on the German/Austria border and where I am, the border was never closed, restricted or changed in any way throughout the crisis. There were some controls near the Salzburg border, but nothing near the chaos that the British press made out!

Crime in Germany has been been generally increasing in Germany since the start of the economic crisis in 2008. There was the case of sex abuse incidents in Cologne on New Years Eve attributed to immigrants, but thankfully that appears to have been a one off incident. There have also been number of arson attacks on asylum centres, usually during construction and almost certainly organised by a minority of right wing extremists. There has been very little increase of crime attributed to the immigrants themselves - Some fighting within the asylum centres and some minor vandalism, most of which is attributed to bordom due to the fact they are not alowerd to work during the asylum process.

The AFD have virtually no support. For their rallies, a few hundred people turn up from across Germany while thousands of local residents stage counter demonstrations. They made some minor political gains in one or two regions in recent local elections which has mainly be attributed to record low turn outs - only the extremists bothered to vote, similar to UKIP voters in the Euro elections! Following the regional elections, many people were angry at themselves for not voting!

There is an asylum centre about a kilometer down the road from where I live. Many immigrants come to exercise in the training ground accross the road from me and I've got to know a few of them. They are very nice people who are desparate to work. Mostly from very good backgrounds and highly educated - doctors, teachers, lawers. As yet, I didn't meet any cleaners or refuse workers, yet many of them would hapilly do those jobs right now, just to have something to do - the boredom is killing them! There is actually quite a lot of women and children, particularly unaccompanied children where the parents couldn't afford to travel with their children (it costs them a lot to take an overcrowded dinghy across the Med), they were just so desparate for their children to have a better life. Also many women have lost their husbands during the conflict, similarly men have lost their wifes and children. There are also a number of families that have been split up during the travels and are praying they can find each other again in Germany. Nobody I have spoken too has any interest in travelling to other EU countries later - They have been welcomed in Germany, they like it here and they want to stay here! In my oppinion I would say its very unlikely that the UK can expect a massive increase from these immigrants once they get passports!

Germany is very much aware of the potential for future problems from the mass influx on immigrants and failures that have been made in the past both in Germany and other countries. Certainly there is no guaruntees that there won't be future problems, but at least they're taking action to help them integrate and also to educate the German population in what they can do to promote better integration.

 

1. Of COURSE the EU threatens freedoms: freedom to deport criminals, freedom to refuse entry to more and more migrants, among a whole host of little rules and regs. that YOU don't seem able to see it says a lot about you Martin.

And I'm asking you to justify your last statement in that post:

Justify that, if you can?

 

By the way;

Some months back, I posted about how dishonest the UK media were, over the reporting of the migrant crisis. I got shot down by the usual left wing suspects

Has anyone else seen anything recently on UK TV about migrants, refugees etc? Because I haven't.

And yet they have had more riots in Calais and ongoing unrest, plus the migrants are still coming in huge numbers into the EU.

WHY is it not being reported here?

 

It has been reported that the Libya route has had upsurge, whilst not so many through Turkey / Greece!

 

Freedom of movement (haven't I already posted that?)

 

It is, all the bloody time.

Right now in fact on Newsnight.

I think it says a lot about where you get your news from.

 

I think you're confusing educated with IQ, they are not related.

I think the issue is more of a culture clash, but there is always issues when two cultures are forced together.

 

I am aware of the difference between IQ and education. Someone called me a "white supremacist" for daring to suggest IQs differ between races (something which is irrefutable). In actual fact I'm probably an East-Asian supremacist by his logic because I believe the studies which show them to have higher IQ scores than white western populations on average. East Asian "intelligence" in this sense (combined with superior education) goes some way to suggesting why their assimilation into western cultures has been much less problematic then immigration from other parts of the world. This is despite East Asians being culturally different to us in the West.

There is most definitely a culture clash going on in Europe just now - won't argue there. The question is whether or not one buys into theories of moral relativism (I don't) and thus how you deal with said culture clashes.

 

Only clear thing here is you're making an argument based on reading from a text book, whilst others above are seeing it on the ground

 

ironic really (as the recent flat earth thread demonstrates) that the peoples of the middle east had discovered (and worked out to an amazing degree of accuracy) that the world was round whilst our ancestors were still scrapping **** of cave walls


anyway you can read all about HonestIago pseudoscientific views here

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

if you read it, it has the line

"Since the majority of racialist hereditarians are white supremacists, this usually puts the Caucasian, or "Aryan",[3] race firmly at the top. (When called on this, some recent racialists note Jews or Northeast Asians measure higher on IQ therefore they are totally not being racist except for everything else they say.)"


I mean who would say a thing like that !!!!!

 

I have copied and pasted this post from the DE.


I hope nobody has forgotten that just a short while ago, on 12th November 2014 to be precise, the British Parliament lost control of the under-listed 43 areas of competence.
They are now to be the subject of QMV within the EU.
The British Parliament also lost the right of veto in these areas.
The EU can of course introduce legislation in those areas of it's own.
I believe that we have been purposefully sheltered from the effects of these changes so far, in case it disturbed the status quo prior to the forthcoming referendum.
Read the list below, and see just how far the EU has now got it's claws into you.
Just imagine what is going to happen once this referendum is over.
1) Administrative cooperation
2) Asylum
3) Border Controls
4) Citizens initiative regulations
5) Civil Protection
6) Committee of the regions
7) Common Defence Policy
8) Crime prevention incentives
9) Criminal judicial cooperation
10)Criminal Law
11) Culture
12) Diplomatic judicial cooperation
13) Economic Social Committee
14) Emergency International aid
15) Energy
16) EU Budget
17) Eurojust
18) European Central Bank
19) European Court of Justice
20) Europol
21) Eurozone external representation,
22) Foreign Affairs High Representation Election
23) Freedom of Movement of Workers
24) Freedom to Establish a Business
25) Freedom, Security, Justice, cooperation & evaluation policy
26) Funding the Common Foreign & Security Policy
27) General economic interest services
28) Humanitarian Aid
29) Immigration
30) Intellectual property
31) Organisation of the Council of the EU
32) Police cooperation
33) President of the European Council election
34) Response to natural disaster & terrorism
35) Rules concerning the Armaments Agency
36) Self-employment rights
37) Social Security Unanimity
38) Space
39) Sport
40) Structural & Cohesion Funds
41) Tourism,
42 ) Transport
43) Withdrawal of a member state

For all our sakes, please copy, post and share.

 

what the "DE"

and can we have a source please

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672...m-Paul-Nuttall

 

ITV and BBC news, occasionally channel 5
Al conspicuous by their inability to show what is actually going on. Look for news in french for that.........

 

The very "freedom" that is destroying the UK? That one?
The one so beloved of the rich IAJFEE'ers on here?

 

Much of Middle Eastern culture and values are totally at odds with those held dear in western liberal democracies. You inferring that I am a racist doesn't change that - such accusations are a desperate crutch to avoid actual debate.

I was under the impression it was the ancient Greeks who realised the world was round but even if I am wrong in this I think it doubtful that one can draw intellectual parallels between ancient and modern ME populations. 1400 years of Islam certainly haven't helped their advancement.


Question time last night was painful as ever! Yvette Cooper and Tim Farron being the worst offenders in serving up platitude after platitude. Neither made a comment of substance at any point - just the same spin we've heard for years on QT about how immigration is a wonderful thing and really shouldn't be questioned. I agreed with much of what Nuttall said but he's not the best of orators and gets a bit too shouty to be convincing.