[QUOTE=BMWhere?;11837698]
Fair enough.

This morning news scare tactics.
If we leave the EU,will be two more years austerity.
It's becoming silly and with a month to go,will be running out of scare stories if they don't slow down.

 

i did hear that, but they added the note that the 'out' party say its not to be believed as the eu fund the source of the report....

their scared to loose their cash cow, they need us a lot more than we need them

 

[QUOTE=DYK;11837715]I really don't see this as any different to the out campaigns habit of claiming everything Remains says is lies/scaremongering and that everything will be rosy post-Brexit.

 

I will never argue that the EU governance is perfect, but then neither is our own. I am very much in favour of EU reform, but we can't to that from outside.

Certainly, the UKIP MEPs don't do us any favours in the EU. They and the whole anti-EU MEP group, pro-actively abuse the system for their own objective of destroying the system from within.

In the European parliament, the MEPs don't club together as countries, but rather, they form alliances (groups) of similar politically minded MEPs from across Europe, so you basically have a Labour group, Conservative group, Green group etc. The size and therefore power of these groups will vary in accordance to the number of MEPs elected across the union, so its essentially very similar in construction to our own parliament.

Sure, someone in the UK can't hold to account MEP elected from France, but its the same that people in Manchester can't hold to account MPs elected in Birmingham! The principle is the same, the scale is only bigger.

By not grouping countries together somewhat reduces any problems with 'corrupt' countries as their MEPs have to cooperate with the group to which they are allied, rather than the country they are from. Their fellow MEPs are mandated to ensure their peers are not acting corruptly.

MEPs do not have power of veto, but they also cannot create legislation that changes the constitution or legal framework of the member states. They can only make changes within the existing legal framework. In essence the European parliament simply deals with the day to day running of Europe and has no power to change the way Europe works.

The real power comes down to the Council of Europe, which consists of the elected leaders of the member states. This is where any fundamental changes to the system are made and where countries act on their own behalf and where the veto can be applied.

 

Well, they would, wouldn't they? Not all information is invalid because it comes from the EU, or supporters of the EU. The same is true, of course, for Leave.

Oh yes, of course, they must be terrified of losing a small percentage of their export market. The UK contribution to the EU budget is around 12%, not to be sniffed at for sure, but it's hardly a deal breaker. And, you have to offset that against all the money the EU would save by not having to pay the UK anymore out of its budget.

I would imagine the EU fear of Brexit is not economical, but political.

 

[QUOTE=neil-h;11837724]Brexit said it won't be all sushine if we leave.we don't know what will happen if remain,what the EU will do ten years from now,what will happen ten years from now if we leave.But if you want stay in this mess with the euro,having to bail out countries etc etc,vote remain then.

 

we have an opt out from any euro bailout

 

Have they? All I hear from Brexiters is how wonderful it will be as we will be free from the shackles of Brussels, free to govern our ourselves, free from the problems of immigration, free to negotiate new trade deals as the 5th largest economy in the world, free from terrorism wrought on us by being EU members.

I haven't heard a single whisper of how it actually might be slightly more difficult to negotiate than they say.

It's true, we won't know what will happen 10 years from now, but we're pretty sure that next year and the year after are gonna be pretty much the same, and that change, in whatever direction, will be gradual. We also have the option of leaving at any point if we feel it's going in a direction we don't like and we are powerless to change it.

If we leave, we haven't the faintest idea what it will be like after we actually separate.

If it turns out not to be the nirvana you hope, there is no going back. I know you seem to think the UK is some great country on the world stage, and we have the 5th largest economy in the world, but the world is changing. We won't be in that position for long. India, Brazil, the tiger economies, that's where the real growth is. The UK doesn't appear in the top 20 nations for economic growth, hardly an ideal time to exit the largest single market in the world, is it? We can't compete on manufacturing, what do you think we are going to do to stay competitive?

 

We actually have the best deal of any member country in the EU. We're not in the Euro, not in the open boarders agreement of Schengen, we have many other opt-outs and vetos that other members don't have. We also have proportionally more MEPs than other member states.

 

personally, i really dont care....we goosed either way.

stay in, get out the cuntry if saturated, the rich look after their own, will always be this way.

as someone whos isnt rich and doesn't earn alot of money all this country does is take from me......

 

Pff Cameron and co are a lap dog to Brussels,they say jump,we say how high.
We all know this.

 

Just like the one we had when we last bailed out the Greeks, you mean? The one where we weren't going to give them a cent, and a week later, paid in full? That one?

 

Really? You believe that? When the EU fudged and bent the rules to get Greece in? When we are almost PAYING for Albania, Serbia, Croatia etc to join?
They wouldn't let back a country that can give them 12% of their budget?

You believe in Father Christmas too?

 

Perhaps we could build some ships, sail the world, discover and conquor new lands and create a huge empire! We could call it "The British Empire 2.0"

 

Except you conveniently left out the fact that the bailout is one of the things the EU has agreed to as part of his negotiation, so we were not in a position to do that in the Greece bailout, but we are now.

So, yes that one, not the one that didn't exist which you are trying to say we couldn't opt out of.

 

yes, I know

ironic really

 

was the UK even part of the last Euro bailout of Greece - i'm not sure it was

 

In the end, we did contribute, under protest. But we won't have to next time!

 

But the chances are we will pay next time,opt out option or not.The EU pressure will be applied and we will bend over and give it.

 

you really need some perspective though , don't you ?

like living somewhere else


I think it may be lower down that the problem is / our reserve - how many times do you see "funded by the EU" on anything walking around uk

 

Then maybe we should leave the IMF too

 

I am not talking about whether the EU would let us in, it's whether we would want to.

Assuming a Brexit occurred, then it is safe to assume the majority of the country do not want to be part of the EU, and therefore, any move by a subsequent government to rejoin would be political suicide.

Unless, of course, the situation was so bad in the years succeeding a Brexit that we all realised it was a terrible mistake, and go back asking them for forgiveness.

Now the ball is firmly in the EU's court. We have to take the Euro, and Schengen, and whatever else they have cooked up in the intervening years as we had no power of veto to stop them, or no say at all.

I do not believe that the UK would want those things, unless we were absolutely broken (which, incidentally, I do not think will happen, just worse off than now), so no, there is effectively no going back.

For the record, I find Father Christmas about as believable as us being better off outside of the EU

 

Apart from providing a generally safe and secure environment for you and your family

World class healthcare – based on medical need

Word class education

Generally a corruption free democracy

Some of the best arts and culture in the world

It is not heaven on earth, but compared to most places it is pretty good

probably not as good as Denmark, Sweden Germany et al - but then we don't pay as much tax as they do

 

I liken the EU to a Artificial Intelligence, it was created to help its masters(Europe's countries) to run their mundane tasks and liaise between each other.

But now the AI has gained a self awareness and is only interested in gaining more power for itself, taking over all aspects of its master's business.

There will be no stopping this if the UK doesn't leave. If the UK leaves and others follow, the power of the EU will be reduced and hopefully returned to a free trade administration body

 

We could throw the ball back and forth talking about leaving many things..Basically comes down to the EU is at the helm,and steering us telling us where we go,what we do.And and if we don't feel your playing ball ,will get the big stick out and start whipping us back in line.

They seem to be keeping all this TTIP on the low profile also,nothing much mentioned about it,because the EU are keeping it behind closed doors.

 

And don't mention that **** lifter who sloped off to the apparently immigrant free sun baked nirvana the other side the planet
He's probably locked up in some Philippino jail by now

 

yes, agree

all things have a tendency to get bigger, then require more management etc etc

in a vicious self fulfilling circle

 

personally never seen that, i live in rochdale, its a **** hole... has every nationality i can think of, have you ever had some one kncok on your door begging for money? i have, couldnt speak english it was on a piece of paper!!!

can i get out of this situation, not right now im just trying to support my family.

thus if being out stops the influx of people into the country then yes i want out, take that as you will, most people on here have a better standard of life than mine, which while its not bad and yes could be worse, changes a person view, if i lived in a 5 bedroom house in chesire, earing 60k a year my views may be different.

what i see is a country being taken for a free ride by many, no help for business, yes i own my own business, and now there forcing pensions on us as they have no money left.

the nhs isnt free, and we get heavily taxed. those of us who work pay more than our fare share(mostly)

rant over

 

i have a friend who works in education who tells me, that there are foriegn people in education lying about thier age to stay in the county/education

 

Annoying, but what about all the indigenous population who lie to get benefits? If you think that is wrong, then we need to come up with a solution to that problem, regardless. If not, then you are effectively saying you think it's ok for Brits to be dishonest but not for foreigners?