We elect the MEP's. We APPOINT some commisioners. The president and MOST of the commisioners are NOT either elected by us, nor do we have a say.

We cannot remove them.

Since we joined, name me ONE piece of legislation we have succeeded in blocking? We now have 7.5% of the votes.....

 

1. Why do we need to? you assume uor first action would be to expel them? Naive thinking and scaremongering. Do you believe that?

2. 6%? Where've you got that figure from? Even government don't reckon it's as much as that.

3. There's 1.5 million unemployed here according to official figures, which means the TRUE rate is over 2 million. Surely SOME of those would like jobs? And yet we still have stupidity in government, like today, where they have decided to close the BISS office in Sheffield, moving the 250 jobs to...yes, you guessed it...LONDON again. So 250 less unemployed in London, which can't fill the jobs it has available, and 250 more unemployed in Sheffield, where the rate of unemployment continues to rise. Crazy.

Maybe if we had some joined up thinking and started offering some sort of incentives for companies to put jobs away from London and the SE, like the French did with Paris 50 years ago?

 

HSBC moving 1000 jobs from London to Birmingham - http://www.marketingbirmingham.com/n...ank-birmingha/

HS2 building FE college in Birmingham instead of initially being planned for London - http://www.marketingbirmingham.com/n...gham-and-donc/

Maybe Brum isn't far enough North for you?

 

another wonderfull example of how our goverment, bends down tp pick up 5p and puts their **** through a £50 window lmao

 

It's pretty clear you have trouble with reading and facts. You said they have to send the money, I pointed out they do not have to, merely that they are allowed to.

At no point point did I say we have a right not to pay them.

 

Got my postal vote today, still sent to the wrong chuffing house number!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's obviously a little hard to get past the xenophobia, but you'd think a little logic might enter the heads of the Brexiters.

You keep quoting about how we have 2.2 million immigrants here stealing our jobs. The jobs these people are filling, let's look at two possibilities

a) There were 2.2 million job vacancies
b) They have displaced 2.2 million UK workers

a) obviously isn't true. If it was, you'd have to ask why? Why couldn't they be filled by UK workers? We had plenty of unemployed. It's not as if all those jobs were highly skilled, most of them could be filled by the majority of people.

b)You have already said we have 1.5 million unemployed (then go on to claim the real figure is 2 million). If all these workers had been displaced because Johnny Foreigner had stolen their jobs, then the unemployed must have been incredibly low, but hasn't really changed that much. In fact, unemployment rate has been falling since 2012, yet we have seen the highest rate of immigration, care to explain why? The employment rate is at the highest it has been since they started to keep records in 1971. It;s easy to quote x million unemployed, it looks far more impressive that the unemployment rate. 2.5 million out of 63 million isn't the same out of 56 million, is it?

Could it possibly be that all these extra people in the UK are generating more jobs? They need to eat, they need clothes, they need cars, they watch TV, they need somewhere to live. They are creating the demand to sustain themselves, and the UK in general.

I admit that purely from an overcrowding point of view, unfettered immigration is not what we want, but overcrowding is an issue that we will have to face, whether we allow immigrants in or not.

 

Yeah see from the reading up I've done on the process, I've not seen anything that's particularly unreasonable. Yeah it's far from perfect but the concept of allowing the entire population of the EU to vote on everything would be a logistical nightmare. Trying to claim it's undemocratic is stretching the point a little (Christ MEPs are elected by proportional representation, that's far more reasonable than the process by which one becomes priminister).

As for blocking legislation, lets be honest we're one country at the end of the day and we've always been a bit of an outsider as far as the EU is concerned. Like they're actually going to listen to us.

 

I was chatting to a very good friend of mine the other day

he is one of Europe's leading IP lawyers

he was involved in the campaign to stop the UK IP courts moving to Germany, so was involved in quite a lot of negotiations in Brussels etc (they hired Tim Bells PR firm etc)

anyway he actually said to me that contrary to common perception, not much gets done in the EU without the agreement of the UK - and in fact we carry a lot of weight and are listened to

 

not sure of the exact figure

but urbanisation accounts for less than 20% of the UK

ahh here you go

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

it is actually less than 8%

 

Nope, plenty unemployed there though.

They need to look st Humberside, south Yorkshire, Teesside, The Tyne area too. All forgotten areas.

 

And after that, you discussed the fairies at the bottom of each other's gardens? LOL

 

Don't see the difference. If we don't HAVE TO pay them, is that not a right to NOT pay them?

 

But urbanisation isn't the issue. It's the strain put on the existing public services, schools, local housing, GP's, hospitals, waste disposal, energy consumption, roads, welfare, policing, prison services etc, etc. Germany welcomed immigrants with open arms in September 2015 which encouraged more migrants and refugees to flood Europe, how's that working out for Germany and the rest of Europe? Not so Willkommenskutur anymore.

Fortunately the UK is not part of the Schengen agreement and therefore not subject to such huge influx of migrants.

 

Yes I agree with all that

I was dispelling the myth that we are full to the brim in terms of land

Although I would say studies show EU migration is either a net gain or neutral to the exchequer

 

Measured in isolation from the rest of the UK, England is in fact the 8th most densely populated country in the world, so we're not far off.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lation_density

yes, one must be careful not to cherry-pick but the stats are quite interesting

Spain and Ireland are both pretty low for western Europe

 

Here's an angle:

I feel that London should be made a principality /microstate and ring fence it from the rest of British politics and possibly economics too. As I feel that the current operations of our West Minster government do not serve in the best interests for those living further east or north of the country.

Whilst there's more chance of pigs growing wings that that happening, if it ever did....would the EU influence that?

And please respect my view I've berated no one, nor question their intelligence in this thread for their views or opinions, with exception for the French and UK news. So I expect the same courtesy, and if not don't reply. Thank you.

 

I read an article a few years ago (I think I posted about it) that basically said that London to all intense and purposes is a "city state"

Along with places like Hong Kong, Dubai, Macao, New York, Monaco, Singapore

Places far removed economical, socially and politically from the region/country where they happen to be geographically located

 

I've never read such absolute cr.... Oh sorry


dl

 

I realise this is a bit of a struggle for you. You said, and I quote
Italics and bold added for illustration.

The rules do not say we have to send them, rather that they can send them. The EU says we have to pay them, not that they have to send money home.

So either you're original assertion is incorrect, or you are lying to make it appear worse than it is.

Also, to further highlight how misleading you are, the reason that EU immigrants can send benefit back to their home countries is due to UK law, not EU law! Most EU countries do not pay child benefit to children living outside of the country the claimant is in.

Edited to add: Just re-read that, it's not even the EU that says we have to pay child benefit, only we have to pay benefits to migrants. Child benefit to non resident dependants, as I pointed out, is a UK thing.

 

and actually that is the crux of the matter

the whole concept is equality of access to rights across the EU to citizens of the EU

we could easily stop child benefit of EU migrants being transferred abroad by simply stopping child benefit (my right to child benefit was stopped 3 years ago btw)

but obviously that would impact UK citizens

so as you say bugger all to do with the EU, all the EU says is that people should be treated equally within the EU

to leave is a race to the bottom

 

As above, I've always been against the way our socialist government implemented our benefits system in such a way that it actively encouraged people of low moral fabric to breed like rabbits to get state benefits, be money or housing. Immigrants doing the same thing has never really been that high on my agenda when I know full well that our own lot do the same.

We could sort it and stay in. Or by leaving we just reduce the burden to our own lot, which doesn't really attack the core issue... As has been the case throughout its our own governments failing that has caused this.

 

Good post, Geezer. You couldn't be any clearer.

 

 

does the majority brexiteers have to have it spelt out in pictures

 

If you look around the rest of Western Europe though, are things really that different there?

 

Was reading something this morning actually, that was quite apt considering all the stuff we have had in this thread.

Essentially, all independent economics studies have concluded that the UK will be worse off out of the EU. The Brexiters response, so all of them, is to cry foul, or say they are EU funded etc etc. It really is conspiracy nutterism of the highest order. Do they really think that all of the independent financial bodies, all of the other countries who have expressed an opinion, are part of some great conspiracy?

If the EU were such a bad idea, what they are effectively saying is that all these bodies want the UK to fail. Really? Do you really think that is the case? If so, you really are a tin foil hat brigade.

The other aspect of it was, ask yourself this question.

Have the problems encountered, economically and politically by the UK in the last 10 years been due to the banking crisis, UK government policy, expenses scandals by our own politicians (of all parties) whilst lecturing us on benefit cheat, indigenous and immigrants, huge corporations robbing the UK treasury of billions of pounds (through tax loopholes the UK government, not the EU, have put in place), or have they been down to some extra immigration above the level we would like?

If your view it is the latter, then your reason for leaving the EU is nothing to do with what will make Britain 'greater'.

 

I noticed this the other day, it's really quite funny.

 

conspiritards

a lot of it about :-(