When all has been said and done (though in reality it is far from done!), it is important to stress the point that the UK has not left the EU, not yet. We are still a fully paid up member and still enjoy all the benefits that come with being in the EU. All the referendum has done so far is caused a lot of market volatility and seeded the emergence of closet racists and bigots as if the referendum is somehow a vindication of their abhorrent views. I'm not sure what Boris/next Brexit PM has planned (evidently nothing!) but I can see the next PM delaying the invocation of Article 50 for as long as possible. Obviously this will p!ss off the rest of the EU members, but the fact is there is nothing the EU can do to force a UK PM to formally kick start the exit.

 

What's your point, Jon? Would you support a eu-turn or do you think we just go ahead and pull the trigger?

 

If you believe that 'macho' means behaving like a man then I'm guilty, but it's plainly a concept with which you are entirely unfamiliar. It's ok to be a soft appeaser but please don't claim it as an attribute.

 

No it's about making a decision and going with it,and not pondering around.We had a vote and decided to leave the EU whenever article 50 starts and the two year countdown begins.If we had voted to remain,I wouldn't have any resentment towards it.Just accept that's the way it went and got on with things.There is article 49 if a country leaves the EU and wants to re join.What the conditions are to re joining I don't know..

 

As you see it. I come from a military family (42 Commando) so I've heard and seen this type of posturing at close quarters. Death before dishonour and all that horse dung. I'd take an embarrassing blip over the years of darkness that we're about to face each and every time. I can look my European cousins in the eye and assure them confidently that this was not done in my name. I disavow.

 

Yes me too JT,

I feel culturally and emotionally European - and immensely proud too


And I know it because although I have dual NZ citizenship I support any European team in a match against a NZ team

Always have done - last years Rugby World Cup was no exception

Although obviously it is NZ after Europe

It's funny the Andrew Neil monologue (who I generally can't stand) captured the zeitgeist regarding just the achievement of France after the slaughter in Paris

But it seem to have been quickly forgotten

 

Correct.
This isn't done until 50 is set in motion. That's the point of no return, and until that happens anything else could happen (the Labour party being a case in point).

 

Is that a fact Jonc, does the EU not have a mechanism to force a countries exit

(I have no idea btw)

 

The fact that you dare spout such invective without fear of recrimination is largely because of the many who died for this country, who believed in death before dishonour. Your European cousins as you call them, who over the years would have happily seen us buried in the dust, would treat us with justifiable contempt if the UK were to do a U-turn. This is taking turning the other cheek a little far even by your standards.

 

Agreed, it's time to get on with it. Did people except anything other than market volatility after the exit-vote?! The markets always react badly to uncertainty.

Central banks all over the world are trying to boost their economies by devaluing their currency. We've just managed just that, and now we need to take advantage of our position. Exports have been given a huge boost (especially to the US, which is a big market for us), and a slight increase in import prices will generate us inflation, which is another thing central banks are trying (mostly in vain) to do.

We need to look to Norway and ideally remain in the EAA (single market), whilst existing the EU. We have a net surplus with the EU, so it's in their interests just as much to come to some arrangement as quickly as possible.

There was always going to be short term instability for the benefit of long term stability.

If we'd voted in would things be all rosy?! Of course not. The markets would be happy in the short term as thing continue on the same path, but the Brussels Bureaucrats would be ever-more smug at the result, and anti-EU sentiment would continue to surge. UKIP would be rubbing their hands in glee at the surge in support, and promising and EU exit if they win the 2020 election. On an issue that divides the national completely this was never going to have a peaceful outcome.

 

Don't lecture me on who died in WW2. Both my grandfathers served and one of them didn't make it back. I will not cave in to emotional blackmail. We're about to make a terrible, terrible mistake. We need talking down.

 

You really are a clown! Your 'European cousins'?!! As if everyone voting Leave hates Europeans, and you're standing should-to-shoulder as allies?!

Do you think citizens in EU countries are loving being a member of the EU?! Predominantly massive unemployment (especially youth), stagnant economies and surging support for Far Right and Far Left anti-EU parties?! They're pis$ed off like we are.

I love Europe and Europeans, and that's exactly why I voted to leave the EU. It's been painful to watch it tear Europe apart, and I'm proud of the UK for having to guts to stand up to it.

 

Well yea.
Its been four days we haven't even given ourselves a chance yet,we still to busy arguing over the outcome vote.
I just feel its time to put our differences aside and start coming together on this.And to J Taylor as the saying goes,a house divided cannot stand,and that's very true.
The chances of getting a second referendum is slim.So we need to start coming together and making this work for us.

 

Yes, can you remind us all what that is

Presumably we loose our rebate, but keep free movement of people

We have obey all the regulations (some rules)

Or are you still fantasising about all the goodies but at no cost

While you work it out

Have a w4nk over this, for old times sake (to the chant of " who are you, who are you" )

 

haha

 

in the words of the 2 commentators in mean machine,
corbyn your boys took a heck of a beating today

 

So when are you going to face up to reality and accept Leave won the democratic vote?! I know facing up to reality is always difficult for a liberal, but maybe it's time to give it a go?!

 

Lol, just answer the question and stop complaing like fvcking girl that "people are being nasty to me on the Internet "

 

Meanwhile we lose our triple A credit rating

That will effect the cost of servicing our debt

Anyway Pete - talk Norway, what's your reality

 

Well looks like another 11 + 1 Englanders have joined the LEAVE side


dl

 

It has taken 40+ years to bring the UK to this point. Taking a few days/weeks/months to get the best from leaving is prudent. No need to have knee jerk decisions.

There will be no re run, looking for voters who doubt themselves will always be easy to find. A few years down the line I expect a better, richer, nicer country

 

You're wasting your time mate! When Hodgy resorts to bad language you have to assume he's either intoxicated or one of his boys has commandeered his laptop!

 

You really do take the stance that you'd rather do everything you can to make sure the UK goes to ****, just so you can come back and smugly say 'told you so!'.

I'm happy to debate with an intelligent opponent like Martin2005, but I'm not wasting my time with clowns like you!

 

Lol, somehow I don't think we are going to get Pete's version of reality

 

Aha, I posted that before I saw you post

Fine, Martin - can you ask Pete what his Norway solution looks like

 

I agree with this especially the point regarding market reaction to uncertainty - surely for this reason Cameron needs to pull the trigger on Article 50 now, not mess around for months which will add further uncertainty. Some business will invariably hide behind the veil of Brexit to relocate their operations to reduce costs, which will add further uncertainty and worsen confidence.


There some good immediate opportunities to be had with the lower value pound - specifically tourism, and export - the UK may not manufacture as much as it once did, but shouldn't we could capitalise on exporting services?

 

Not really making a point, just an observation. Everyone seems intent on talking as if we have already left the EU.

Maybe EU eurocrats could see this referendum as a wake up call that the current EU ideology is not working anymore; a tipping point where there is a growing discourse and anti-EU sentiment amongst the member states; that the current market volatility and shock to the global economy along with the manifestation of anti-immigrant sentiment is just an indication of what is to come should other states hold an EU referendum; that Article 50 is not the solution to this problem which could result in the break up of the UK and the EU.

Perhaps if the eurocrats could accept this then perhaps the EU could reform its policies and address these issues; that political union and free movement is not the answer and we all go back to what the EU was before the Lisbon Treaty and also abolishing the Schengen Agreement; that rather than become dictatorial by making an example of the UK and instead acknowledging the issues and reform. And if the UK can be part of this reform, then the EU and the UK wouldn't have to lose its largest market and trading partner and thus calm the global markets and restore confidence in the European market, UK keeps its AAA rating and allay the concerns surrounding immigration. Obviously this is an over simplification of the situation and all of the responsibility lies with both the UK and the EU, but you have to start somewhere and it would take a tremendous amount of courage and make the humbling decision to admit that invoking Article 50 is not a course that is in the UK's, the EU's and indeed the worlds interest. Its not too late, but it's a piped dream of course....

The referendum is not legally binding and of course going against the electorate is political suicide, but I can't name anyone more deserving of that fate than Boris Johnson.

 

The short answer is no. Legally, according to the Lisbon Treaty, it has be the country and can only be that country leaving the EU that can invoke Article 50.

 

Sure, but would you support a eu-turn or do you think we just go ahead and pull the trigger?

 

The tragedy is that is has all been so self inflicted

Two years of uncertainty and turmoil, a recession (not scaremongering even Farage admits)

All for a Norway option that includs a membership fee and an acceptance of most rules and regulations and free movement

The sad thing is the politicians will probably spin it as a victory - and some people may even buy it