HonestIago

As much as I wish it weren't the case, I think that either:

a) Government/big business and vested interests' propaganda will win out and we vote to remain. A startling proportion of people believe that the likes of the IMF know what's best for us.They don't see that there is utter desperation among the powerful elites for their plan of a united Europe under complete central control to succeed.

b) We vote out by a slim majority and the result is either discredited or the figures fudged. As Stalin himself said, it is not he votes that counts but he who counts the votes. Look at the EU's past form for ignoring/re-running referendums when they don't go the "right" way.

What amuses/distresses me most is the arrogance of so many supposedly intelligent, university-educated, people who can't see that they've been manipulated/brain-washed for their entire lives. They even scoff at out-voters as not being sufficiently informed when they themselves are just willing victims of media manipulation and a left-biased education system. I have found many such people predictably dismiss my views as conspiracy-theory/tinfoil-hattery. I tend to get them to research things like the Bilderberg Group and the Coudenhove Kalergi plan...plenty info out there. It just requires a bit of research and joining the dots.

hodgy0_2

yes, you don't have to go to the "dark" web or wacko wingnut conspiracy sites to tell you that there is something wrong and money / power is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands


in fact you can simply go to sites like the below

https://www.credit-suisse.com/us/en/...-positive.html

http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre...economic-forum

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...quality-report

actually I commented about 6/7 years ago in this forum - that we are seeing the biggest transfer of wealth from poor to rich the world has ever seen

re the "Coudenhove Kalergi plan"


I can only find references it on white supremacists and other racists/antiemetic sites (oh and the usual conspiracy sites)

do you have any other sources?

HonestIago

I read about it here most recently. The source is probably very easily dismissed by those of a mind to do so (it's hardly mainstream media!) but I thought it thought provoking to say the least and yet another reason to resist further centralisation of power.

https://redgreenalliance.com/2016/04/06/the-coudenhove-kalergi-plan-white-genocide-via-mass-immigration/

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Unless the online polls are wildly off the mark, they are pointing towards brexit. Some polls have more than 300k of voters(openly available to both sides) and it's 60+% in favour of leaving.

I have seen quite of few polls and 60% seems to be level for leave.

We do have phone polls which are usually just a 1000 and give a differing position

Personally I am more inclined to believe polls with many tens of thousands of votes over small sample ones

hodgy0_2

I haven't looked at the polls

I was surprised when a dear friend of mine - who's opinion I respect reckons it will be a Brexit vote

I have to say I assumed it would be a "remain" tbh

Still it will be fun watching the threads from people asking why they are having to go to the post office and pay duty on stuff they bought off Amazon.co.uk in the same way they do when they buy from China or the U.S.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Amazon deduct at point of transaction or shortly afterwards. Very little will change in that respect

hodgy0_2

Amazon who, UK?

Martin2005

Be very very wary of online polls.

This is going to be close, and I suspect going to be decided by which side turns our their vote. I gut tells me the Brexit side is more likely to turn out more than the remain side.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Why, I take each poll with a degree of scepticism. On the same note when a poll has 300,000+ votes where you can only vote once, has to be noted

Speaking to my friends and family, it is about 70/30 with leave having the bigger portion

Martin2005

On line polls are notoriously misleading.

There was an interesting article on them a few months ago.

Online polls tend to overstate certain demographics

jonc

If I recall, the online polls for "Yes" in the Scottish Referendum were also around 60% for independence. The actual result was a 55% for "No".

hodgy0_2

mmm yes the "no" are probably more vocal

there is probably a "silent" (minority/majority) we will only know when they get to the ballot box

Geezer

There is also good evidence to suggest that the way UK polls are conducted give us incorrect indications, like in the last general election.

A man from the US (who historically had much more accurate polls) was talking about the different methods, it was quite interesting.

Obviously, then, the polls could be wildly wrong in either direction!

Current poll of polls shows it roughly equal, slight lead for remain, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find a 'poll of polls' that show either camp winning.

Martin2005

This is quite interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35926183

Geezer

Yes, that is interesting.

The main reason they thought US polls were more accurate is that in the UK, the actual question is posed very quickly, effectively catching the person on the hop and will give an answer that is not necessarily reflective. In the US, pollsters have much longer conversations, asking about their financial and family situations, what their thoughts are about all sorts fo things, and then they pose the question. People tend to give more honest answers if they have a chance to think about how something will affect them.

But, as that article suggests, too, if you ask the wrong people, no matter how much you get them to open up, you will get skewed results.