Peedee

iTrader: (4)

I promise you that I have never had a bad experience with a dog. Never been bitten etc. I'm a huge animal lover in general, but I'm also a realist. You even said it yourself that "no domestic dog is ever, ever 100% trustworthy", so there you have it. I'm not saying every dog ever will instantly kill a child at first sight, that would be ridiculous and completely untrue, but you cannot take any dog 'for granted', no matter what breed or how it's been brought up. No matter how 'disciplined' you think your dog is (or may well be), deep down within that dogs DNA is a hunter-killer streak. You either get animals with both eyes facing forward, or animals with eyes on either side of their head. Those with their eyes facing forward have been primarily designed so they can focus on their pray I.e a predator. Those with eyes on the side of their head have been primarily designed so they have a far greater field of vision to look for incoming threats around them, borderline 360 Vision. Take a guess at which catagory dogs fall into.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Precisely ^^^.

EVERY dog has the capacity to go 'mental'.

They can get a bloodlust on. Then positive feedback can kick in, hence the wild, but genetically NATURAL, instinct to attack.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

The same rules (and sentences) should apply as for any death caused by someone in control of a vehicle. If someone wasn't previously aware their dog was dangerous, but on an unfortunate one-off occasion didn't take adequate steps to make sure it couldn't get loose and potentially attack someone, that would land them the equivalent sentence to death caused by driving carelessly, but not recklessly. If they already knew their dog was dangerous (due to past incidents of it attacking or trying to attack people) and did more or less **ck all to stop the same thing happening again, the same sentence as death caused by reckless/dangerous driving. If the person who ended up dead was in fact responsible for putting themselves in the situation where the dog attacked them (burglar broke in and got mauled, for example), then equivalent to a not-at-fault driver (pedestrian jumps into the road where driver has no chance to avoid them, for example).

I can't wait to hear the excuses from anyone who thinks the above would be unfair or unreasonable.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Well, I think you've nailed it. Perfectly sensible if you ask me. And perfect 'like for like' comparisons to car drivers.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Yes I get all that about evolution for purpose. Physical design and behaviour are not necessarily connected. Although not predatory animals, domestic cattle and cape buffalo share very similar physical design characteristics, but you wouldn't be the one to try and milk a buffalo I think.

There's a big difference between a dog that's never 100% trustworthy and being a wild animal.

I'm glad you haven't been on the wrong side of a dog.

The Dogs B******s

First things first, I have a 3 year old little boy, this story has haunted me all day after hearing about it. I just can't imagine loosing my little lad to anything, let alone being killed by a dog. Dogs shouldn't be around kids end of, and I'm talking from experience. Anyone thinks any different to this is just a fooking idiot.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Any owner of a dog has to be responsible for how his dog behaves.SJ.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Poor little boy, hope fighting about how evil dogs are in general makes you all feel better.

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

Where exactly has anyone said that dogs are evil? Everyone on this thread has put forward a decent, constructive view, whether you agree with it or not.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Get over it, a discussion about dogs doesn't imply a lack of sympathy with the boy and his family.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Lol ok..

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Responsibility of being a dog owner and as a dog owner you should know the ability of your dog. It would be a fantastic idea for the Govt. to fund a new TV advert stating that you should never leave a dog unattended with a baby/toddler regardless if you think it will never attack as there's a chance it could albeit a very small chance but it's not worth the risk.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

No you're right, all your comments imply total sympathy and concern ..

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

Are you actually going to bring something constructive into this conversation or just sit there making stupid comments? You're not related to RS_Matt are you?

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

This thread has nothing to do with sympathising for that family's loss.
Read the thread title 'Death penalty for owners of mad dogs' There's not even a note of sympathy in the OP's first post (no critiscism for that btw), apart from saying he's sickened by it. Last time I looked that wasn't exactly a concise expression of remorse or condolence.

Most of the comments have been in line with the thread theme so I don't really get your problem with a discussion about dogs!

For the record, and going OFF TOPIC, as a dog owner for over 40 years I am deeply saddened and outraged that this has happened yet again. I'm also disturbed by the knowledge that, regrettably, it will happen many times more. Not only am I upset at the prospect of further misery and bereavement of people being hurt and killed by mis-managed dogs, but according to the views of some folk, everyone who keeps a dog is apparently totally bereft of concern for the wellbeing of others because they choose to keep a 'wild' animal as a domestic companion.

I have 3 grown up kids of my own who between them have given me 8 grandchildren that I'm immensely fond of, and I cannot comprehend the grief that would beset me and my family if we were to lose any one of them in any situation. So don't you lecture me about my apparent lack of empathy for the family of that lad.

Torquemada

We've got three dogs; a Rat Terrier, a GSD and an American Pitbull.

The GSD is typically anxious and sweet, the pitbull is just adorable and just rolls onto her back for belly rubs when she meets anyone, the Rat Terrier is cute as heck and bounces around like a wee spring.

The other half and I would never leave them alone with kids, they are trained and are sweet as **** but there is always the risk they could nip/bite/shred a kid to pieces.

The little Rat Terrier is actually the most dangerous of the three, I reckon, he's tiny compared to the other two but has previously flipped the f**k out when one of his toys was taken away (tried to bite me). He also used to go bananas at the Pitbull, she could bite him in half with one chomp but he would seem to think he was further up the pack than he was (once took a chunk out of the pitty's face and ear!).

Training the heck out of him and the rest to eliminate this, as much as possible. I do think that anyone who leaves a dog with a baby is plain nuts, you never know what could happen, no matter how well trained you think the dog is.

I'd agree that most problem dogs are problems due to the owners but you can never tell when a bit of doggy rage or 'nature' could come out.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

First time my 1 year 5 month old male GSD has properly met a toddler this evening. The first hour I was very cautious and Theo (the dog) was very excitable and curious, almost bordering obsessive. When Rhys (the boy) was picked up Theo would whine a little. He licked Rhy's face a lot and when Rhys was crawling Theo wanted to play. I feel that I can read my dogs body language very well and know what signs to look for, I.e spiking his fur up along his back and curling his tail up is a first sign of caution. He didn't do any of that and he usually only does that when a stranger is at my gate.

I'd have to be seriously mad though to walk out the room and leave them both to themselves.

dpb

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...roid-orange-gb

These pathetic ***** need hanging

Paben

iTrader: (5)

FFS, you need your head examining for allowing this. How long do you think it would take that dog to seriously disfigure your son or even kill him if it suddenly turned, and you'd be able to do nothing about it. And as for allowing the ****-licking dog to lick your son's face, that's another story entirely.

dpb

We had similar ( alsation cross) when I was that age , cam out unscathed but probably luck
My mother allways recounts one incident where my father was teasing the dog , whereupon dog managed to clamp his teeth round his ear. It was a warning shot - he could have bitten if he wanted to , And may have done if the reaction was less than calm

( like if it had been me )

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

I think it's a great picture, and it would appear the family's relationship with the dog is managed rationally and without complacency.
My children were brought up with GSDs. As a consequence they have no irrational fear of dogs and know what is required to maintain a healthy relationship with an animal.

Being pack animals it is usually quite easy to train a dog to accept his place as the lowest member of the family pack and show respect for all family members. There are undoubtedly people who don't/won't understand that statement and nothing will allay their fears.

Just like humans though there will always be rogues and you have to be on your guard against those rare exceptions.

Without going into too much detail, long after my children had left home we acquired another pedigree GSD pup. Unfortunately for us, and in spite of extensive expert training (not by me I might add) over the 18 months we had him, it turned out this dog was going to be unmanageable. He didn't hurt anybody but it was a possibility that he may at some point, so we made what we felt was a responsible decision and that dog is no longer around. This wouldn't stop me having another if I felt the time was right. I have been asked why we didn't give hime to the police. Simple. The police didn't want him.

As for dogs licking a face, I do have reservations about that. The odd licked ear or 'peck' on the cheek isn't going to harm me, but mouth licking is not on.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

That's pretty grim reading.

stilover

Well said, and 100 correct.

stilover

Dogs should be around kids, as they are family pets, and will be better for the interaction (for both child and dog)

However, dogs (especially those that can cause massive trauma) should never be left `alone` with a child.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I grew up rolling around with German Shepherds (mum bred them) BUT I would never let my son go anywhere near a dog when we're out.

As a kid I had no fear of dogs, no matter what size or breed. I'd boldly approach anything even when people would warn about them as I wasn't afraid of any dog.. Then one day I got out the car at a garage in a small industrial estate and the bloke's dog (Alsatian guard dog) ran at me. Even instantly I knew it was bad news, it was pure savage. Barking ferociously as it ran towards me, it jumped and bit my hand then grabbed my inner thigh and shook me. The bloke can running and was beating it to let go! This was a dog just off the lead that sat I the garage while he worked!

It makes me so annoyed when people do the whole "oh he wants to say hello" (like they're holding back a Rhino on a lead) I just steer my lad away. Kids also seem to have this habit of wanting to go up to dogs, it only takes one split second to rip their face off.

You always hear "my dog would NEVER hurt a fly" but 90% of attacks on kids will no doubt be from dogs that would 'never hurt a fly'.

I have a dog myself, albeit a Jack Russell but I won't let her approach children at all.

There's a little play park (no dogs allowed) near me where a lad started taking his staffi, I'd seen him a few times walking past. Then one day I went there and he was in there with the dog with the bloody thing hanging off the swing seat, jaws clamped on shaking itself as he pushed it!

I went over and had a go at him and he did actually get out, but bloody rediculous.

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Dogs?

It's cats you need to worry about.

The Dogs B******s

Totally agree.

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Are you for real? Do you not think I was watching like a hawk and continually examining the situation? As said, I spent over an hour introducing my dog first. Only then after that amount time I felt it was pretty safe to kneel down and take a few snaps. No way on Earth would I leave them unsupervised. A dog and toddler do have to interact with each other. It's called socalisation in order to bring up the dog correctly in the best possible way. He is not a mature 8 year old dog with problems or the like. He's still a teenager too. Also, read what I said properly. He isn't even my son.

Look at us, there's the sons Father in the shorts sat in the background. My Partners hand can be seen to the left of the picture. I'm kneeling down taking the picture. You are genuinely stupid if you think I was wrong to let Rhys have a little interaction with my dog.



Edit: or are you suggesting that in order for this to satasify you, you'd have dogs on ***** and chains when around kids? Be reasonable now.

Turbohot

I agree.

This has just reminded me of an animal cruelty place called the Tiger World in Thailand. They have a large number of IndoChinese big cats so tamed and docile that the tourists pay enough to go in and pictures done with ten footer massive tigers or the tiger cubs. We went because we like cats and we wanted to judge for ourselves whether those tigers were really as tame or else. We chose 4 month old baby tiger twins to play with. Although the cubs were really tired and least reactionary, due to the heat we were told, we were very cautious of them. We stroked them, rubbed their tummy etc. and they responded to that like our domestics cats do. However, we knew that one slap, even with affection, from one of them could disfigure or disable us forever. It went fine, but the daughter was convinced that all the tigers big or small in that place were either drugged or so harshly abused by their human enslavers that they now act so very timid towards all interfering human strangers; so contrary to their natural instinct. How, an animal that is solitary by nature and wanders off at least 40 miles away from its pad to start off a new territory of its own could be constrained in the cages and get stroked/get its tail held/some macho human stranger lying on top of it was beyond comprehension. I mean, hundreds of human strangers on daily basis interfere with their peace and enjoy their confined and unnatural state of being. Yes, sadly we were among such, but for the very last time. We went because we weren't sure of the organisation's marketing tactics with the promise that all their big cats live in a larger than life paradise like enclosure where they walk about free and get treated like princesses. Bull£h1t it was, as they were all cramped in the cages. Good job we went and got to see the reality with our own eyes.

Same goes for the elephants who get ridden by the tourists for fun. Some of them even do shows, play harmonica etc. (how undignified for the animal) and then get lined up to beg food from the tourists. I feel so sorry for such elephants.

They've had occasional incidents in that Thai Tiger World, but so far not bad enough to be shut down. I really think that it's a matter of time and one of these days, some grinning macho tourist lying on the floor with a massive, resting tiger for a boastful picture opportunity would get seriously slaughtered by the predator. We also thought that what if one day, some ranger forgets to unlock the place? Whole Phuket will be in trouble, then.

Actually, when I was talking pictures of other tigers in that place, one massive tiger took a position to pounce on me from his cage. He had five other tigers in the same cage with him. His eyes went all bright as if he was about to take off! The cages was only the wired ones, not the ones with firm metal bars. At that, I was taken over with fright for my life and was about give a 'fight' response from that spot when luckily, our very patient taxi driver called us out of that place at the very moment. Lord, I'll never forget that moment! Those eyes going all very bright and him in a perfect position to launch! Perhaps he wouldn't have been able to break out of that precarious looking cage but I'm still so very grateful to the Almighty that I'm still alive.

A day after our visit to the Tiger World, we read on the Internet about this happening in China:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-woman-8483279

Holy sheet!


Anyway, apologies for going on and on in this post about the cats on a thread about dogs.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

No, you're the genuinely stupid one for thinking that you could stop that powerful dog if it suddenly turned on that child. How long do you think it would take the dog to rip pieces out of his face or even kill him; 2 minutes or 2 seconds? However, if you think it's ok to run this sort of risk then good luck to you and him.

As for ***** and chains I wouldn't have any dog in the house around children, let alone a big one. And I'm sure the same claims that you're making have been made by many people who have then had a child or themselves savaged by the family pet.

You may not be aware that over 7,000 people annually are hospitalised by dogs in the UK alone? That statistic should be enough to have you exercising a lot more caution.