ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Point taken.

But semantically speaking, the word 'Protest' is still the correct terminology. Protest is the broader word for any group objecting to something or someone be it violent and non-violent. Therefore riot is a protest albeit one that contains a degree of unlawful activity (criminal damage, assault, breach of peace/ public order etc. ), in other words a non-peaceful protest.

And if we want muck about with UK interpretation, one could call any large group of protestors ignoring a police dispersal order and causing fear for safety as law breakers and therefore could be called rioters even if no actual physical harm has been inflected on anyone or anything. Rarely ever goes that far, but you can feel free to call an XR protest a riot if they have committed public order offences, ignored dispersal orders and persist to use threatening language.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

I don't see the previous posters or my comments as jumping down a polarisation rabbit hole. I understand why you are making the comparison, but who are these far left lunatics of which you speak? We are comparing like for like, Trump administration against anticipated behaviour of the Biden administration, there is only one where "extreme" behaviour is the MO.

IdonthaveaScooby

According to some Arizona trumpies interviewed yesterday the rioters bashing up the place were all Left wing extremists ...🤣🤪

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Yea, gotta love the Trumpies ability to come up with with a conspiracy theory, it's all they have left at this point.

Tidgy

i guess you missed where the biden camp fund raised to bail out 'protestors' aka riotters who were arrested?

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Must have missed that yea, but I'm gonna call it fake news, that's the most common way to deal with things you don't like the sound of these days.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Politics is a murky area at the best of times, but Trump and what he has stirred up are indefensible.

Tidgy

BOTH sides have been doing yet only one side is being called out. What im saying is there shouldn't be double standards.

Tidgy

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN2360SZ

so not only campaigning, but funding it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...st-protestors/

and then harris on twitter.

So much for fake news eh

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

I'm not sure if you are being serious anymore?

In any movement there will always be a minority with more extreme interpretations and more willing to act on them.

However, Trumps right wing, gun toting, white supremicist base have been whipped into a frenzy by the soon to be former president. The extremists have been legitimised by Trumps own actions, rhetoric and lies.
Dems on the other hand are talking down confict and talking up unity, which by any measure the US desperately needs, just because there are some instances of Dem corruption I don't believe you can claim any equivalency.

Trump is finished now, everyone one is turning on him, they can see which way the wind is blowing, he's a spent force.
The Trump name is totally toxic now, business interests are going to be hit hard aswell, and thankfully 2024 run is off the table.

Tidgy

so your preferred side is better than the other side is what your saying?

So even though trump said no direct words about rioting, yet the dems funded it by getting people out of jail, trumps in the wrong?

I think you need to step back and realise what your saying, opinion of words being said vs money to allow actions? your right, there is no equivalency.

I say opinion of words as trump did not say 'go riot'

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

I'm not taking sides as such, I'm identifying my own moral compass as more aligned to that expoused by the Democrats in current American politics. That could change, If Dem's do things which outrage me and Republicans got their house in order I might change my view.

As it is Republican behaviour for 4 years has outraged me, and upset me since they are trashing the reputation of a great nation. Also, I'm particularly sensitve to flagrant liars which is a character trait I always avoid in my personal life.

Rudy said "Trial by Combat", Trump did not say go march up there but remain peaceful and respectful, which he could/should have done. It was always a tinder box, he has stoked the flames ever since the election.
The demo was planned to be taking place while congress were in joint session, Trump had made it clear he was pinning hopes on Pence, Pence had released a statement making it clear he would not (in fact could not) do his bidding.
So yea, such a large group of aggreived people, violence was inevitable, security forces were weak for whatever reason. Trump could have called it off, but did not.

So which "side" are you on?

Tidgy

im not really on either side, its more a case of im sick of hypocrasy and double standards that are set. Our politics tend to follow what happens in the US and with social media being more left leaning and cancel culture that is becoming prevelant it concerns me we go the same way. The whole point of a democracy is the ability to discuss different view points and and come up withe a combined prefered option that is accepted by all, even if not agree'd with. Canceling or removing that voice because you disagree with it is not democ rating in anyway, yet thats the way social media has gone, as lets face it, social media is where alot of folks now adays get there information.

IdonthaveaScooby

Here's the whole deranged episode

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...endiary-speech


"we have to take back our country , by force ..."

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Republicans cancelled themselves by selling their souls to the devil (where devil = racist, lying, misogynistic, narcissist)
MAGA cancelled themselves by turning violent at the monument of democracy.
Trump cancelled himself by relying on lies and conspiracy theories.

Biden is a centrist who is tring to find that common ground, but you argue against that.
Social Media is a reflection of it's users, it's not left leaning. Ultimately the networks have taken action, which they would have regarded very much as a last resort, because it might hurt them down the line.

If you are truly offended by hypocrisy and double standards as you say, then i would have thought you would agree with me on this.

Tidgy

unless its not a full transcript i cant find that in it, run a search and see what you get.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

He said something about never giving up, never backing down. That implies no limit on actions to try to take back the presidency.

Anyway Republican senators are openly calling for him to resign now. Chris Christie agree's it was a call for insurrection. So I'm not sure what battle you are trying to fight here.

Tidgy

So straight awy you have gone back to opinion, 'Trumps the devil'

BLM and Antifa were there burning the place down long before any trump supporters did. Not to mention they went after people homes. So why is it acceptable for them to do it and be supported by the democrats? So your being hypocritical and demanding of trump what you wont demand of of BLM and antifa or the dem's.

There is evidence of electural issues, that is not lies or conspiracy, how wide spread is what we don't know. if you want burry your head in the sand and ignore them thats your choice. But considering all i've said is they should be looked into to find out one way or the other to find out then i think you need to step back and listen to what i repeatedly say.

See now your trying to force me to agree with your opinion, i would say biden is more left leaning, although that could be the democratic pary in general so he's been forced down that line.

Tidgy

that's NOT telling people to riot is it. So stop lying. )does that sound familiar?)

There is alot of political **** saving going on at the min, trump is on his way out, so people are looking for ways to save there own ****. Question becomes what happens if Trump set's up a new party as he has as trong following which some pundits are saying could be stronger than what remains of the republicans.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Thats not lying. He's stupid, but not stupid enough to say "go riot", it's the implied message which is clear enough. As i say he could have called for calm, but that's not in the playbook and the fan base would not like it as they should be free to do whatever they want.

Glad you mentioned BLM, it was very different wasn't it when they protested at the capital. Hypocrisy and double standards laid bare for the world to see.

There is no evidence, if there were then Trumps cronies would have provided it in court.
Chris Krebs, Trumps own cyber guy said the election was secure - then got sacked.
Bill Barr AG, came out and said there was no evidence of widespread fraud.
He couldn't even get a hearing from judges he appointed, why on earth would you believe him when he says there was fraud? Barely a true word comes out of the guys mouth.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Suppose for a moment he and the Republican party had a track record of honesty, integrity, standing up for the American people rather than corporations.

Then these people came up with the fraud theory, it might have been taken seriously.

But Trump has claimed everything is rigged all his life. He said this election was going to be rigged prior to it even happening, and he's so smart he even knew it would relate to postal ballots.
He set up the optic by telling his followers to vote at the polling places rather than by post as he knew the postal votes were counted later and could then be framed at "ballot drops".
Multiple recounts and audits have shown the count to be correct.

Sidney Powell is facing a $1.3B lawsuit for defamation of Dominion, they are obviously confident they can prove their systems are legit.

There is no way these allegations of coordinated fraud across multiple states sufficient in number to change the election result can be taken seriously.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

That's a non starter now in my opinion.

He needs big business support and that is not going to be there now.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Have edited my post for clarity.

Republicans cancelled themselves by selling their souls to the devil (where devil = racist, lying, misogynistic, narcissist)

BMWhere?

Not a chance! Most people who voted for Trump did so because they are ingrained Republican voters, not because they particularly support Trump. The actual number of people who would support Trump above the Republican party is very small and also sufficiently spread out that the American voting system wouldn't even give them a seat in the House, never mind the Senate or as president.

Incidentally, same is true of ingrained voters in the UK. My parents voted Conservative at the last election, even though they have two kids living in the EU, they are very much anti-Brexit and they think Boris is a total idiot and unfit to run the country, but they would never entertain the idea of not voting Conservative!

BMWhere?

Incidentally, the PGA have now cancelled their contract with a Trump golf course to hold the PGA championship in 2022!

The Trump brand is now Toxic and more and more companies will distance themselves from him and his businesses. With his financial backing set to crash, he will very quickly become irrelevant in US politics!

Sad Weevil

iTrader: (1)

What happens then is that the conservative vote will be split, and the Democrats will be in power for ever. Not a good thing.

Who is saying it's acceptable? Certainly not the Democrats. I think that if you are citing equivalence between opportunist criminals looting stores under the cover of a peaceful protest (check the facts) and organised armed right wing militias invading the Capitol during a democratic process, bludgeoning a cop to death in the process, then your powers of critical thinking need re-booting.
Antifa is a generic term for a loose collection of anarchists and anti-fascists, it's not an organisation or a movement, it's an ideology. They've been around since the 1930s in Germany. There is no connection to BLM, despite how the Trump supporters frame it. The idea that they support the Democrats is laughable, they don't see them as being any different from the Republicans.
If you're looking for equivalence, take a look at Germany in the 1930s, and Hitler's rise to power. You'll find a lot of similarities to Trump's rhetoric and the actions of his supporters.
Half of Trump's base are convinced that the Capitol invasion was a false flag, and they were all antifa dressed as Trump supporters. Seriously.

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Shame really, seemed such a nice bloke.

Tidgy

so why were they funding their release? if that doesnt say it's aceptable then how can words?

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Can you provide a link please?

I suspect they are donating to a group which has wider objectives not simply stumping up cash to release convicted criminals.

Tidgy

i already did above when you asked last time.