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Mine is at 300ftlbs by 3500rpm and 400ftlbs by 4400rpm.
The power is there when I want it, and I have a huge FMIC!
As people have already pointed out though, this isn't about numbers, it's about how the car feels to drive and it sounds like the OP is very happy now.
Your numbers are from a Bob Rawle road dyno calculation so can chop about 10% off those when you visit a proper dyno......
Numbers are the only way to compare two different turbos tho....if your incapable of reading or do not have a compressor map..
When they come on boost... How much the make down low or up top....
The GTX will never come on at same rpm as an SC36 but will definetly out punch it when on song
The GTX will have a much higher boost threshold at least 500rpm this would show best on a dyno when the GTX starts to spool 500 or so rpm later.
But when inside that higher boost threshold the GTX will be more responsive being a modern BB turbo. This would be best shown by flooring both at around 5000rpm, the GTX will wake up faster & pull harder..
But the SC36 will make more torque below 3.5krpm all day long making it a far better turbo to drive around town unless your the type to never let revs drop low....
Blouch do a Ball Bearing version of all the TD05s. Those should have the same transient responce or better than the GTX but again will never punch as hard.
Glad OP is happy but Butt Dyno's are never accurate.
Last edited by SmurfyBhoy; 17 December 2020 at 12:31 PM.
it wont be forever on fossil fuel then the emotion will be gone.
Originally Posted by adam.pah
Mine is at 300ftlbs by 3500rpm and 400ftlbs by 4400rpm.
The power is there when I want it, and I have a huge FMIC!
As people have already pointed out though, this isn't about numbers, it's about how the car feels to drive and it sounds like the OP is very happy now.
I like the above , bringing us back...
When I kick the throttle in 2nd on a muddy wet twisty Cornish road and climb to 60 mph in 2nd , I get the most satisfaction I have ever had driving a car. I have a 2.0 WRX with a SC36 ,
it still needs a bit of work on exhaust flow , (headers) Im following Henrik on his experience on that, but I too am getting close to what I want on my 2005 5spd which is a 350bhp with 200ftlb at 3k and 300ftlb at 3,5k
Apart from driving a Lancia Integrale in 87 which was huge fun , I just don't need another company car or a huge power heavyweight Beamer , Audi, VW .. etc I have done all that for 30 years in Germany,
It is very quickly boring doing >160mph down some autobahn on the way to another meeting. I started driving in 1981 drifting a Fiat 850 sport coupe when sometimes you could
turn the wheel lock to lock at 80mph and yet still drive straight ahead. I finally have that driving experience again that sparkled in me at 17 in my 05 Impreza. Enjoy ,
I'm pretty sure the 140i weighed pretty much the same as either my Blobeye or Bugeye Sti. Under 1500kg i think it was 1475kg. I think its lighter than my Fozzy Sti....
Huge power ? Definetly
Heavyweight ? Depends if i compare it to my Westfield or my fat *** 6 speed Subarus.
Pretty sure the old classic type R were under 1200kg correct me if wrong......
Last edited by SmurfyBhoy; 17 December 2020 at 12:30 PM.
it wont be forever on fossil fuel then the emotion will be gone.
Originally Posted by SmurfyBhoy
I'm pretty sure the 140i weighed pretty much the same as either my Blobeye or Bugeye Sti. Under 1500kg i think it was 1475kg. I think its lighter than my Fozzy Sti....
Huge power ? Definetly
Heavyweight ? Depends if i compare it to my Westfield or my fat *** 6 speed Subarus.
Pretty sure the old classic type R were under 1200kg correct me if wrong......
Trouble with the 1 series is just that , it really is a car for one, you are constantly knocking elbows with your passenger, The i drive is like trying to wrestle with an Android at high speed.
I drove one once with the 8 speed zf box , competent yes, and fast on German highways too, but as soon as I pushed thru Baden Wurtenburg ,cross country it all became a rather teeth grinding experience
one that could be so much better, Private I drove the 530i "Tirpitz" tourer so I knew the engine was good, But to be honest the front end of the 140i was still dominated by that engine , as soon as you start to pile on the coals on a twisty bit
you were faced with the same tire scrubbing understeer, sure you can balance it with power and that is fun in good conditions, but the concept is foul, as just by chopping the weight out of the width and rear the 1 series car, they still missed a crucial point,
that the engine and all its ancillaries do so dominate the front end, that you cant help thinking you are sitting on a saddle of a 6 cylinder motorbike. On wet twisty roads where you couldn't manage to deliver its power it reminded me of the S3 which was another disappointing
VAG under steering package. I actually felt my earlier 2011 4 cylinder 320D made a better cross country car. That car still did a regulated 148mph along autobahns while returning 10liter/100 km. As a 4 cyl RWD it was in fact well balanced.
The 140i weighed the same , used twice the fuel and could not pull out of low-mid speed corners in a composed manner (although the autobox made it a little easier) consequently its not as quick as people would have you believe. I also have an big axe to grind with BMWs preoccupation to use DSC in conjunction with ABS , although you could turn the later off every time you start, The stability control system on later cars cannot be fully turned off.
By design it cannot takes account of whats going on outside the car. I had cause to rue this in a borrowed 135i . While at 60 mph as I drove straight slightly uphill on a Autobahn into a rain burst, The road was soon awash but not so that parting the water slowed you, suddenly the car took on a mind of its own, ( I had dipped the clutch and wanted to hold the steering straight ) as the wheels started to rotate at different speeds the brakes were applied, ( not by me ) and as the surface was not fully flooded adhesion was recovered quick , but by then the car started to swerve, I found myself literally hack sawing at the wheel in order to catch the impending spin. which would have ensued in the next awashed patch. When you do that , the system thinks you are losing control and tries to apply the brakes, but as I mentioned it cant see the tarmac ahead. It just cant know that all this "safety" was counter productive, Its equally flabbergasted by slightest snow or ice , traction is managed by dropping power , with the consequence that if you attempt to crack on out of a T Junction the approaching traffic will
be forced into emergency braking, headlight flashing and horn sounding. .
Cars should be made lighter and to encourage drivers to drive better rather than be driven, the average populations reliance on driver aid "features" has IMHO become counter productive as manufacturers **** higher to to find a car that will drive itself while the passenger
(he she is no longer a driver) sits and surfs on the latest Android. Well to my way of thinking that means we should go back to Trains they do it better crash less and have been largely Electric since 1975
Our desire to get that kick in the pants from low revs is why we look to more torque , and perhaps rather than looking for better turbos and more capacity, instead significant weight reduction would yield us more
I would love to see a mid sized car 4 seat brought back under 1000 kg fitted with a more modern 2.0 engine, Sort of a late 80s Escort 1.6i but with modern materials and none of the electronic bull**** ,
I'm sure it could do 50mpg 0-60 in under 6 and not need to be called a Focus. Subaru could call it a 2 door RA and for sure it would be another classic,
Currently in the market you have to do away with 2 seats and the roof and drive a Westfield.
No I'm sticking to my Subie run a 1/4 tank , no spare ,no jack, ash tray and emptied glove box , getting it into the brown stuff !
the back end out and straight up again on lift takes a lot to beat.
Trouble with the 1 series is just that , it really is a car for one, you are constantly knocking elbows with your passenger, The i drive is like trying to wrestle with an Android at high speed.
I drove one once with the 8 speed zf box , competent yes, and fast on German highways too, but as soon as I pushed thru Baden Wurtenburg ,cross country it all became a rather teeth grinding experience
one that could be so much better, Private I drove the 530i "Tirpitz" tourer so I knew the engine was good, But to be honest the front end of the 140i was still dominated by that engine , as soon as you start to pile on the coals on a twisty bit
you were faced with the same tire scrubbing understeer, sure you can balance it with power and that is fun in good conditions, but the concept is foul, as just by chopping the weight out of the width and rear the 1 series car, they still missed a crucial point,
that the engine and all its ancillaries do so dominate the front end, that you cant help thinking you are sitting on a saddle of a 6 cylinder motorbike. On wet twisty roads where you couldn't manage to deliver its power it reminded me of the S3 which was another disappointing
VAG under steering package. I actually felt my earlier 2011 4 cylinder 320D made a better cross country car. That car still did a regulated 148mph along autobahns while returning 10liter/100 km. As a 4 cyl RWD it was in fact well balanced.
The 140i weighed the same , used twice the fuel and could not pull out of low-mid speed corners in a composed manner (although the autobox made it a little easier) consequently its not as quick as people would have you believe. I also have an big axe to grind with BMWs preoccupation to use DSC in conjunction with ABS , although you could turn the later off every time you start, The stability control system on later cars cannot be fully turned off.
By design it cannot takes account of whats going on outside the car. I had cause to rue this in a borrowed 135i . While at 60 mph as I drove straight slightly uphill on a Autobahn into a rain burst, The road was soon awash but not so that parting the water slowed you, suddenly the car took on a mind of its own, ( I had dipped the clutch and wanted to hold the steering straight ) as the wheels started to rotate at different speeds the brakes were applied, ( not by me ) and as the surface was not fully flooded adhesion was recovered quick , but by then the car started to swerve, I found myself literally hack sawing at the wheel in order to catch the impending spin. which would have ensued in the next awashed patch. When you do that , the system thinks you are losing control and tries to apply the brakes, but as I mentioned it cant see the tarmac ahead. It just cant know that all this "safety" was counter productive, Its equally flabbergasted by slightest snow or ice , traction is managed by dropping power , with the consequence that if you attempt to crack on out of a T Junction the approaching traffic will
be forced into emergency braking, headlight flashing and horn sounding. .
Cars should be made lighter and to encourage drivers to drive better rather than be driven, the average populations reliance on driver aid "features" has IMHO become counter productive as manufacturers **** higher to to find a car that will drive itself while the passenger
(he she is no longer a driver) sits and surfs on the latest Android. Well to my way of thinking that means we should go back to Trains they do it better crash less and have been largely Electric since 1975
Our desire to get that kick in the pants from low revs is why we look to more torque , and perhaps rather than looking for better turbos and more capacity, instead significant weight reduction would yield us more
I would love to see a mid sized car 4 seat brought back under 1000 kg fitted with a more modern 2.0 engine, Sort of a late 80s Escort 1.6i but with modern materials and none of the electronic bull**** ,
I'm sure it could do 50mpg 0-60 in under 6 and not need to be called a Focus. Subaru could call it a 2 door RA and for sure it would be another classic,
Currently in the market you have to do away with 2 seats and the roof and drive a Westfield.
No I'm sticking to my Subie run a 1/4 tank , no spare ,no jack, ash tray and emptied glove box , getting it into the brown stuff !
the back end out and straight up again on lift takes a lot to beat.
Thats older, crappier, slower 135i poverty spec without the M-Performance diff & prob on a set of runflats lolol
Still outhandles & outguns the Sti
Understeer in every Subaru i have ever driven has been far worse than the 140i had.
It also has perfect 50:50 weight distribution so the whole front end dominated by engine is nonsense too.
Yes if driven with all the aids on its easily confused but they are for safety not performance, grow a pair & turn them all off it's a different animal and when it's off your on your own so more nonsense about it not being full off either....
Could also see 40mpg on the motorway with almost 500bhp
The only thing true out of all that is the comment about it being deadly in poor conditions.
Last edited by SmurfyBhoy; 17 December 2020 at 06:20 PM.
Understeer in every Subaru i have ever driven has been far worse than the 140i had.
It also has perfect 50:50 weight distribution so the whole front end dominated by engine is nonsense too.
Yes if driven with all the aids on its easily confused but they are for safety not performance, grow a pair & turn them all off it's a different animal and when it's off your on your own so more nonsense about it not being full off either....
Could also see 40mpg on the motorway with almost 500bhp
The only thing true out of all that is the comment about it being deadly in poor conditions.
Why would you want a car that is deadly 156.2 days of the year when you can have a 4wd subaru and enjoy it all year round here in the uk
Your numbers are from a Bob Rawle road dyno calculation so can chop about 10% off those when you visit a proper dyno......
Numbers are the only way to compare two different turbos tho....if your incapable of reading or do not have a compressor map..
When they come on boost... How much the make down low or up top....
The GTX will never come on at same rpm as an SC36 but will definetly out punch it when on song
The GTX will have a much higher boost threshold at least 500rpm this would show best on a dyno when the GTX starts to spool 500 or so rpm later.
But when inside that higher boost threshold the GTX will be more responsive being a modern BB turbo. This would be best shown by flooring both at around 5000rpm, the GTX will wake up faster & pull harder..
But the SC36 will make more torque below 3.5krpm all day long making it a far better turbo to drive around town unless your the type to never let revs drop low....
Blouch do a Ball Bearing version of all the TD05s. Those should have the same transient responce or better than the GTX but again will never punch as hard.
Glad OP is happy but Butt Dyno's are never accurate.
I’ve got a blobeye widetrack now and I’ve had 5 previous Subarus to fulfill a boy hood dream. I know there not the fastest or the most comfortable cars in the world but I’m owning what I loved as a youngster and no amount of money or technology can take that away. Wanted a Subaru, worked hard for a Subaru, OWNED a Subaru...the rest is irrelevant tbh.
I’ve got a blobeye widetrack now and I’ve had 5 previous Subarus to fulfill a boy hood dream. I know there not the fastest or the most comfortable cars in the world but I’m owning what I loved as a youngster and no amount of money or technology can take that away. Wanted a Subaru, worked hard for a Subaru, OWNED a Subaru...the rest is irrelevant tbh.
Wonder if the newage ones are faster or slower than that later shape Sti that got pumped on track off pov spec 135i with no diff....
The BRZ is your modern sports car, lightweight and RWD. Most people want a car that gets them from one place to another in pure comfort. Thats it, they aren't bothered about all the driver focused stuff they want something really easy to drive. I understand it and totally get it.
Something that I have noticed about modern cars and why they feel so fast. They have tonnes of torque and get to 40mph very quick but then they run out of puff. Most people drive in the city so getting up to 30mph is all thats needed. You either get Urban MPG or Extra Urban MPG, very hard to get both. This is an over simplification but you get the idea.
No offence mate but my BMW always wanted to kick out. It was a lovely car and very comfortable to drive especially on the motorway. I bought it as a daily because the Scooby was just insane and I did hardly any miles back then so it was ok to run as my only car. When my miles when up it was time to buy something else. The scooby and the BMW had different jobs so I couldn't say one was better than the other.
I'm not going to comment on whether the 140i is better or worse but what I will say is we all have different driving styles. The 140i probably suits your style better while scoobys suit other people. I'll be honest the AWD system is far more forgiving.
The BRZ is your modern sports car, lightweight and RWD. Most people want a car that gets them from one place to another in pure comfort. Thats it, they aren't bothered about all the driver focused stuff they want something really easy to drive. I understand it and totally get it.
Something that I have noticed about modern cars and why they feel so fast. They have tonnes of torque and get to 40mph very quick but then they run out of puff. Most people drive in the city so getting up to 30mph is all thats needed. You either get Urban MPG or Extra Urban MPG, very hard to get both. This is an over simplification but you get the idea.
No offence mate but my BMW always wanted to kick out. It was a lovely car and very comfortable to drive especially on the motorway. I bought it as a daily because the Scooby was just insane and I did hardly any miles back then so it was ok to run as my only car. When my miles when up it was time to buy something else. The scooby and the BMW had different jobs so I couldn't say one was better than the other.
I'm not going to comment on whether the 140i is better or worse but what I will say is we all have different driving styles. The 140i probably suits your style better while scoobys suit other people. I'll be honest the AWD system is far more forgiving.
Was it a 140i
Was it a 140i with a M-Performance diff ?
Was it a 470bhp M140i with a diff ?
I could regularly see 30mpg around town 30mph stop start stuff. Then 40+mpg on the motorway. You really can have best of both. Better around town that the 335d & almost as good on M-Way
My Sti was almost 500bhp and would have struggled to keep up with the 140i when stock nvm after a 150 quid decat pipe and software took it to almost 500bhp peak torque of almost 500ftlbs from 2k rpm & redline of 7k. In a hatch that weighs the same as the Sti.
Driving style depends on the car.
Try drive the 40i like a scoob u will be dead faster than you know.
Wont get much more driver focused than a sub 600kg Westfield/Caterham/Kitcar with zero aids a proper no compromise car
Wonder if the newage ones are faster or slower than that later shape Sti that got pumped on track off pov spec 135i with no diff....
Bug,Blob,Hawk ?
I think there quicker than the newer shape sti but still no match for a bmw 135...but I’m not arsed about racing everyone. People stop and stare at my blob like they would with an essy cosworth but they would both get smoked by a bmw 135i...I don’t want to be the fastest car on the road
I could regularly see 30mpg around town 30mph stop start stuff. Then 40+mpg on the motorway. You really can have best of both. Better around town that the 335d & almost as good on M-Way
My Sti was almost 500bhp and would have struggled to keep up with the 140i when stock nvm after a 150 quid decat pipe and software took it to almost 500bhp peak torque of almost 500ftlbs from 2k rpm & redline of 7k. In a hatch that weighs the same as the Sti.
Driving style depends on the car.
Try drive the 40i like a scoob u will be dead faster than you know.
Wont get much more driver focused than a sub 600kg Westfield/Caterham/Kitcar with zero aids a proper no compromise car
Sorry should have said the MPG thing was about modern cars not specifically performance cars. 40mpg in the city or 70mpg on the motorway that sort of thing lol
The BMW could not be driven anywhere near as hard through the corners like the scooby because it always wanted to kick out so I never risked it like that. Like I said the BMW was there for a comfortable daily driver that is all. It did its job well until it was written off by someone crashing into me. I was lucky to walk away from that crash.
You are right there are cars that are even more driver focused.
Your 500bhp scooby might not have been able to keep up with the 140i, don't know the spec of it etc. But I can tell you this a 350bhp classic will depending on set up.
Not sure on the specs of the 140i but the computer will pull power a lot.
Last edited by NOSSY_89; 17 December 2020 at 08:29 PM.
I’d love a bmw 135 or 140 as a daily btw, no ****...there lovely, comfortable mental cars that I could live with on a daily basis but I wouldn’t look forward to taking it out in a nice summer day.
The older I get the more I care about comfort lol. Thats why even though I don't do many miles I need 2 cars.
spot on mate 👍 I’ve got an iffy back now and the Subaru doesn’t help one bit. A nice bmw would make a massive difference to my back but unfortunately I can’t afford 2 cars hence the work van and my Subaru. I can’t part with the Subaru yet it’s an obsession but the thought has crossed my mind to get rid of the Subaru 😭😭
spot on mate 👍 I’ve got an iffy back now and the Subaru doesn’t help one bit. A nice bmw would make a massive difference to my back but unfortunately I can’t afford 2 cars hence the work van and my Subaru. I can’t part with the Subaru yet it’s an obsession but the thought has crossed my mind to get rid of the Subaru 😭😭
Your work van is your daily
I picked up a 15 year old diesel BMW, it was comfortable and very reliable. Did loads of miles in it, cost me £2200. I'm not rich at all.
You don't like scoobys and thats fine. You have your right to your own opinion.
Thats not true either
Currently have a Fozzy Sti which is my 3rd
They are great poor weather workhorses. Wouldnt want anything else in bad conditions that include Rs3's & Golf R's
But this whole discussion was about turbos and the lack of responce / low down grunt from any above 400/450bhp on a 2.0.
The latest A45S is 420bhp out the box & an absolute monster so it can be done.
I'd love them to use that FA20 from the latest wrx with its direct injection etc. Just with a little more oomph.
I am gutted more than anyone about their decline in the last 2 decades.
It's a sad day when i'd pick a late 90's Type R over a 2017 Final Edition.
It's as if they forgot the magic that made them what they were
I was hoping somebody with a high compression twin scroll on a 2.5 circa 450bhp would pop up & put me in my place tbh but i just dnt think it's out there or at least on here.
17 December 2020, 12:04 PM
it wont be forever on fossil fuel then the emotion will be gone.
