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I'm really not missing the point. The parts must be fit for purpose. So a DD and drag car are two separate purposes that each have different wear levels on parts.
It's easy enough for companies to prove these things if they want. They can send any parts off for inspection by an expert and their findings can be presented in the court case that will be needed for you to get your money back or not. If the part truly was abused and the claimant was trying to abuse the system then the company could claim those costs back.
Again, warranties are completely separate to your consumer rights so it doesn't really matter what the warranty terms are. Companies cannot override your basic consumer protections. This is what is meant when things state your statutory rights are not affected.
Prove the manifold was not wrapped ?
Prove the tuner wasn't Stevie Wonder
Prove it wasn't cracked on purpose to get a new one for free..
Yea lets go to court over a manifold that bought in bulk for under 300 quid off ali-express
Farr too many variables for anybody to take it seriously
If lucky they may offer to weld it back together for free as long as u pay postage
Soon as you start tuning your car your rights go out the window and its all on you for messing with it in 1st place.
I said earlier in the thread that folk should look at the limit of 304 stainless temp wise & give themselves a fright
They are fit for purpose as long as you keep EGT's low.....
Is that the sellers fault to ?
That depends if you are supposed to keep the EGT's lower than would be expected for the average car of the same type or not.
At the end of the day, consumer law is consumer law and it doesn't matter what anybody's opinion is on either side of the argument. I'd recommend anybody to look up their rights for themselves rather than trust the word of some random nobody on the internet.
That depends if you are supposed to keep the EGT's lower than would be expected for the average car of the same type or not.
At the end of the day, consumer law is consumer law and it doesn't matter what anybody's opinion is on either side of the argument. I'd recommend anybody to look up their rights for themselves rather than trust the word of some random nobody on the internet.
Good luck returning your manifold after 7k miles
Anyone who expects aftermarket parts to last like oem on a tuned car should really reconsider if it's the road they want to go down.
Stuff Breaks, **** happens it's an expensive hobby and these parts are at the very bottom of the quality pile. Great for what they are which is budget performance parts
Our issue is that we do see upto 870Deg C Exhaust gas Temperatures on our higher boosted cars.
If we split the reliability problem into main areas we end up with Thermal Expansion and Corrosion ( in the presence of water and or salts )
At 500Dec C
The standard "Carbon" casting (cast iron) has an expansion rate of 3.7 inches per 100ft
a 12% Chrom stainless steel has 3.6 inches per 100ft however at 18% Chromium 8 %Nickel Stainless Steel expansion rate reaches 5.8 inches per 100ft
Graphically
304 Is basically easy to weld which is why its widely available , but you should be aware that its properties are different depending on which version you use I doubt that most suppliers will go into this level of detail but it is
critical to the application especially if the exhaust is to be wrapped.
Heat Resistance of Stainless Steel 304
Stainless steel 304 has good resistance to oxidation in intermittent service up to 870°C and in continuous service to 925°C. However, continuous use at 425-860°C is not recommended if corrosion resistance in water is required. In this instance 304L is recommended due to its resistance to carbide precipitation.
Where high strength is required at temperatures above 500°C and up to 800°C, grade 304H is recommended. This material will retain aqueous corrosion resistance.
316 Has a higher Chrome % ( typically 17-18% ) It has a slightly lower expansion rate but not only is it more expensive , but it still has issues with corrosion , also it should not be Oxyacetylene welded,
a lot of car exhaust manufacturers in Far East are not aware of that fact , as by doing so makes the weld itself the most likely stress fracture point.
Corrosion Resistance of Stainless steel 316
Stainless steel 316 has excellent corrosion resistance when exposed to a range of corrosive environments and media. It is usually regarded as “marine grade” stainless steel but is not resistant to warm sea water. Warm chloride environments can cause pitting and crevice corrosion. Grade 316 is also subject to stress corrosion cracking above around 60°C.
Heat Resistance of Stainless steel 316
Stainless steel 316 has good resistance to oxidation in intermittent service to 870°C and in continuous service to 925°C. However, continuous use at 425-860°C is not recommended if corrosion resistance in water is required. In this instance 316L is recommended due to its resistance to carbide precipitation.
Where high strength is required at temperatures above 500°C, grade 316H is recommended.
Grade 321 and even 347 far better suited to our high temperature environment. Grades 321 and 347 are the basic austenitic 18/8 steel (Grade 304) stabilized by Titanium (321) or Niobium (347) additions. These grades are used because they are not sensitive to intergranular corrosion after heating within the carbide precipitation range of 425-850 °C. Grade 321 is the grade of choice for applications in the temperature range of up to about 900 °C, combining high strength, resistance to scaling and phase stability with resistance to subsequent aqueous corrosion.
Grade 321H is a modification of 321 with higher carbon content, to provide improved high-temperature strength. And can be welded with same 321 material.
So in the UK with our Salted / Wet environment with wrapped exhausts (that hold moisture) and Tuned cars with high boost and higher than sandard EGTs both 304 and to a lesser extent 316 grade are not really a good idea.
For this Grades 321 or 347 would be the best choice . Personally as I don't believe I shall ever need the larger bore of a £600+ stainless system that works for 500bhp as for a WRX at 350Bhp , I can still use a Ported fairly reliable Cast version.
This is a dutch firm , who import this product , from ? Likely far east , could be USA , so bearing in mind our new trading status , you need to make sure of your delivered price ( who pays Tax and Duty )
You need to check if they deliver from stock in UK , more likely they have a warrhouse in NL and you become the importer , you might need a EORI number ( privat individuals can apply for these as well as companies ) You are then responsible for your own import and any local taxes (UK Vat / Duty if any that applies from point of origin )
On the claims for Bhp hmm , I have in my memory that one of the tuners/mappers on Scoobynet has a picture / Modification guide to which systems work and which do not , ( I have my own doubts about this one) but pls ask others first about experience on a Dyno , you might well find more on the US Scooby sites too.
Visual I see flex joints on this design, thats good to deal with thermal expansion but they are normaly a source of unreliabilty and potentialy be a source of flow turbulence,
thats less Important when flex joints are used behind the Turbo and in a 3 inch pipe but is of critical importance in the header where gas speed is vital. On a turbo engine you dont want backpressue building up. The Uppipe diameter should always be matched to the size of your Turbo , so if you are looking for bigger power (400 bhp +) then you use a larger dia pipe , and if you are looking for quick spool on a 300-320bhp TD04 / Hybrid then you would choose a smallish dia. For anything in the range 300-400 you can just decat the Sti uppipe Reading the Thread "Max bhp from Std Headers" however , gives good info in particular on Harvey uppipes.
Last edited by Linksfahrer; 06 January 2021 at 11:54 PM.
So any back to back graphs of the killerb vs gt spec? price wise killerb ones are double the price of gtspec ones.
The killer bee are made from 321 not 304 like the GT-Spec so highly unlikely to fail, worth it for that alone if you ask me i'm sure they have a lifetime warranty too but don't quote me on that.
Can't see there being too much difference performance wise tho between an equal length set of Gt-Spec & Killer Bees.
The killer bee are made from 321 not 304 like the GT-Spec so highly unlikely to fail, worth it for that alone if you ask me i'm sure they have a lifetime warranty too but don't quote me on that.
Can't see there being too much difference performance wise tho between an equal length set of Gt-Spec & Killer Bees.
Depends how you treat them, the things being mentioned are not true antilag and generate more heat than performance gain.
Let's face it, for road use if your generating thay much heat then you are thrashing the hell out of your car.
Depends how you treat them, the things being mentioned are not true antilag and generate more heat than performance gain.
Let's face it, for road use if your generating thay much heat then you are thrashing the hell out of your car.
So short version, wasting your money.
Yep, if you don't drive your car fast best just leave it stock.....or use the cheapest parts available for the job
Can have EGT's above what 304 is happy with and not be "thrashing" your motor.
Another benefit of Killer Bees is resale value, be as well throwing an old set of RCM headers in the bin where as you can always get a good chunk back for your Killer Bees the also wont look like **** after a few heat cycles or when your remove the heat wrap that kills them even quicker.....
My mechanic worked out a cost to repair that was only £100 less than I can get a brand new set for!
So I gritted my teeth and decided to just buy a new set of the GT spec again.
As much as I would love a set of KillerB's, the price is more than I want to spend this month on a car which is once again just sitting there.
We'll see how long these ones last.....
My mechanic worked out a cost to repair that was only £100 less than I can get a brand new set for!
So I gritted my teeth and decided to just buy a new set of the GT spec again.
As much as I would love a set of KillerB's, the price is more than I want to spend this month on a car which is once again just sitting there.
We'll see how long these ones last.....
The old saying buy cheap - buy twice
2 x RCM headers plus fitting can't be far off a set of Killer Bees
I got mine welded for peanuts when they cracked & the lasted the rest of the time i had the car. Find a decent welder & ask him for a price.
2 x RCM headers plus fitting can't be far off a set of Killer Bees
I got mine welded for peanuts when they cracked & the lasted the rest of the time i had the car. Find a decent welder & ask him for a price.
A saying that I often use myself.
I got a very good price on the new ones.
Killer B's would also require a remap so work out at more than 3 times the price, not what I want to spend on what is effectively my 3rd car and does around 3k per year.
My thought process is that I'll get the new set on and then can look to get the old set welded while off the car, which will give me more freedom to find a local tig welder.
Or I'll just sell the old set and be done with it.
I have to admit that I don't have much faith in how long they will last if I get them welded anyway.
There's a good chance I'll end up selling this one in the next year or so anyway, so they should at least last till then!
Yep, if you don't drive your car fast best just leave it stock.....or use the cheapest parts available for the job
Can have EGT's above what 304 is happy with and not be "thrashing" your motor.
Another benefit of Killer Bees is resale value, be as well throwing an old set of RCM headers in the bin where as you can always get a good chunk back for your Killer Bees the also wont look like **** after a few heat cycles or when your remove the heat wrap that kills them even quicker.....
I've run plenty of high performance wubwrus and never had issues. In fact only time I saw an issue was when someone had been running antilag (Well not true antilag) for way waybtoo long and had got it so how it had melted the alloy bracks on the aftermarket rad
I've run plenty of high performance wubwrus and never had issues. In fact only time I saw an issue was when someone had been running antilag (Well not true antilag) for way waybtoo long and had got it so how it had melted the alloy bracks on the aftermarket rad
That's great so even the "fake" anitlag ***** them. Imagine what the real deal would do. Have a look at what your EGT's peak at next time your out a drive & compare it to the limits of the low quality 304 stainless those Thai headers are made from. Can't argue with science
I never had any issues with mine (after my mate welded the massive crack that appeared) but doesn't change the fact that they are made from a material that isn't really up to the task. Add heat wrap & geting them wet into the equation and it's just a recipie for trouble.
Some last a lifetime some last 3 years.
The luck of the draw when tuning performance cars
Killer Bee are the best on the market being made from 321 stainless. So if somebody chooses to go that route they should be able to do so without being told it's a waste of money.
A waste of money to me, would be buying an SC turbo when Blouch can deliver the same in a 7cm housing for less... same product without the re-branding @ less cost but that's another story, another thread...
Last edited by SmurfyBhoy; 08 January 2021 at 08:24 PM.
That's great so even the "fake" anitlag ***** them. Imagine what the real deal would do. Have a look at what your EGT's peak at next time your out a drive & compare it to the limits of the low quality 304 stainless those Thai headers are made from. Can't argue with science
I never had any issues with mine (after my mate welded the massive crack that appeared) but doesn't change the fact that they are made from a material that isn't really up to the task. Add heat wrap & geting them wet into the equation and it's just a recipie for trouble.
Some last a lifetime some last 3 years.
The luck of the draw when tuning performance cars
Killer Bee are the best on the market being made from 321 stainless. So if somebody chooses to go that route they should be able to do so without being told it's a waste of money.
A waste of money to me, would be buying an SC turbo when Blouch can deliver the same in a 7cm housing for less... same product without the re-branding @ less cost but that's another story, another thread...
smurpy is one of the few people I’d listen to, couldn’t you somehow strengthen the welds before installing them. All that doe for something to crack will get my blood boiling. What a waste of money
smurpy is one of the few people I’d listen to, couldn’t you somehow strengthen the welds before installing them. All that doe for something to crack will get my blood boiling. What a waste of money
That's the nicest thing any one has ever says about me.
I do like winding folk up tho so hopefully you can pick some nuggets of knowledge out of what i say haha.
Mine never cracked at the weld it was on the actual tube part. Although the were wrapped previously. It looks like it's right at end of where wrapped. Corroded possibly due to water being held there time & time again
They were very cheap 2nd hand so i didn't cry about it but managed to get refund from who i bought off as they were sold as working condition. So turned out to be a freebie after fixing.
If going that route on my Fozzy then Killer Bee or one's that are made from proper material at the very least would be my choice.
The OEM twin scroll exhaust manifold seems to last OK if you're willing to go equal length and twin scroll turbo. It's nice to have proper heat shields too.
smurpy is one of the few people I’d listen to, couldn’t you somehow strengthen the welds before installing them. All that doe for something to crack will get my blood boiling. What a waste of money
I listen to smurf too, only cos he makes me laugh though!
trust me when I say I would rather not be spending my money on another set on these when they’ve failed in such a short space of time. The alternative makes no financial sense though because if I change headers I need a map, that’s £400+ on top.
As you know, I may well sell this car in the next few months as I have the RA now, so this is really just an expensive extravagance.
I never scrimp when it comes to maintaining my cars and I want the car to be perfect even if I was selling next week and this seems the best way forward.
The OEM twin scroll exhaust manifold seems to last OK if you're willing to go equal length and twin scroll turbo. It's nice to have proper heat shields too.
A nice option, albeit very expensive to change the headers, uppipe, turbo and a new map.
That's great so even the "fake" anitlag ***** them. Imagine what the real deal would do. Have a look at what your EGT's peak at next time your out a drive & compare it to the limits of the low quality 304 stainless those Thai headers are made from. Can't argue with science
I never had any issues with mine (after my mate welded the massive crack that appeared) but doesn't change the fact that they are made from a material that isn't really up to the task. Add heat wrap & geting them wet into the equation and it's just a recipie for trouble.
Some last a lifetime some last 3 years.
The luck of the draw when tuning performance cars
Killer Bee are the best on the market being made from 321 stainless. So if somebody chooses to go that route they should be able to do so without being told it's a waste of money.
A waste of money to me, would be buying an SC turbo when Blouch can deliver the same in a 7cm housing for less... same product without the re-branding @ less cost but that's another story, another thread...
yes it does if you run it too much. If your melting your headers then you have issues. The material changes properties when you over heat it so its visible simply by looking at it. You'll be claiming RCM parts are all better than others next becuase they are twice the price or made of some pointlessly expensive material or just have a different brand on them lol
Well if you think you can go and buy one of the shelf then crack on ****, when your dispaointed with the results then dont blame the product you think you are getting compared to what you are actualy getting
31 December 2020, 07:36 PM
