The Zohan

Shaun reading between the lines, i take it you do not necessarily agree with JZA's comments or am i being over sensitive

Apart from that how the devil are you?

[This message has been edited by Paul Habgood (edited 05 June 2001).]

CC

they're both crap, buy a lada.

Shaun

Stef,
You babbling 4 skin!!!!!!!

Do you wear the same glasses as Jza???

"Jza was simply saying that GGR remarked that the standard Escort Cossie is way behind the Scoob in the handling dept. Anyone who knows anything about both cars would agree."

Have I EVER said anything to contray to that in this thread......errrrrm, NO!!!

"You've stated that a standard Escort Cossie is actually quite a good handling car, which nobody else seems to agree with."

So now your telling me that EVERYONE say's a standard Escort Cosworth does not handle!!!!! Who's that then???!!! Come on Stef, even you arn't that much of a bellend!!!!! Not as well as a standard Scoob, but your making out it hasn't even got quite good handling now?????? Come on, play the game!!!!

"Besides, aren't the companies you mention predominantly engine tuners?"

They do engine tuning along side all other mods, including expertise in suspension/handling etc etc.

"I certainly don't hear of many 'normal' Cossie owners taking their cars to Mountune either!"

That's correct, but do any of you Scooby lot drive to ProDrive for your mods/fitment/expertise. But surely Prodrive of the Scooby daddies arn't they????!!!!!!

Just when I think you have changed, and MAY start to talk sense........you return to your (like to say good ) old self.

Regards,
Shaun.

CraigH

Performance Car did a test - think it was called the Icons - Audi Quattro 20V, Impreza, Delta Integrale, Escort Cossie and might've been a Skyline as well.

The Escort Cossie was virtually as quick as anything - it was marked down for being a superb handler but a little too twitchy.

It doesn't need thousands spent on the suspension at all.

An Escort Cossie with AP 4 pots and Ledas, won't handle much/any worse than a Scoob with the same.

JayBs Escort with the 330, was almost identical straightline to mine in it's old state, so quite how it wouldn't be able to get past a UK Scoob, I don't understand - unless he was toying with ya

Jza

He He He Shaun,

Call me a nobber and you've wrote a novel !!!!

"You really are a nobber aren't you!!! Sorry I must correct you on that, i've actually owned TWO and a Scooby WRX"

Sorry mate - forgive me - youve owned TWO. Arise sir Cossie expert Shaun, owner of two Cossies!!!! For thou knoweth a lot more than some short baulding dude called Graham Goode!!!

He He He!!!

Love it. Max Power!!! He He

Jerry, Jerry!!!!

He He He!!!

Jza

[This message has been edited by Jza (edited 05 June 2001).]

Shaun

At last somebody that ACTUALLY owns a Scoob and speaks sense!!!!

Craig....IIIIIIIII thank you.

Shaun.

Shaun

Paul,

You forgot to mention your misses has though (been in an Escort Cossie that is!!!) When I took her to the loo at Brunters, I noticed that she suddenly gripped the door handle when I floored it!!!!!!





I giggled to myself!!!!

Shaun.

Shaolin

Again.........thanks peeps.

The Zohan

Shaun

Yep, Jenny was impressed, then again she is a girlie!

She compared the accelleration to what it must feel like to be shot out of a cannon!

All the best

Paul



[This message has been edited by Paul Habgood (edited 06 June 2001).]

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CraigH:
<B>
JayBs Escort with the 330, was almost identical straightline to mine in it's old state, so quite how it wouldn't be able to get past a UK Scoob, I don't understand - unless he was toying with ya [/quote]

Didn't say STANDARD UK Scoob


Still think he is best keeping the E30 M3 though, would 'out handle' the Scoob and the Cossie

Having taken an E30 M3 Evo3 round Donnington, I would have swapped my PPP'd downpiped induction kitted MY99 for one in a moment, if it were not for the less palatable combination of LHD, handbuilt components and 30000 annual mileage

bros

Shaolin,

I had a completely standard Escort Cosworth. Had to be standard, it was a company car.

It was, without doubt, the best car I've ever had. Perhaps compared to some other cars the steering/suspension/engine could be criticised, but then you're in the realms of very special cars indeed, any one of which is so far removed from the average that reading anything into magazine comparisons is probably meaningless. At this level it comes down to personal preference rather than anything else.

Not sure I'd want one now - there are too many badly tweaked/crashed/thrashed/rebuilt ones out there, but for their time, they were an absolutely stunning bit of kit.

It was EXACTLY the same as an Impreza in that all the money was spent on the hardware - the interior of both is shoddy - and had the sort of shape that only a mother could love (though for my money, the Cossie is still a better-looking car). Both are stupidly fast, cost a fortune to run, and yet remain practical enough for daily use.

If I was buying either as my one and only means of transportuse, I'd go for whichever was still in production, and buy a new one, so that means MY01 Scoob.

As you're looking at s/h examples, and given that you're an M3 owner, I suspect you'll love the torque (in both cases), be less impressed with the handling (in both cases), and be horrified by the insurance on a Scooby (classic/specialist insurance for both the Cossie and the M3, whilst expensive, will probably be a good deal less than the Scoob). If you want more power, the Cossie is the one to go for, if you want more refinement it's got to be the Impreza.

Hope this helps.

Bros

PS Please, no flames on this. It's just an opinion, I'm not claiming to represent anyone other than myself, shares can go down as well as up, your home is at risk unless you claim that Scoobys are fastest and bestest at everything, I've never driven a Nova etc etc etc

WAYSIDERS

At last a sensible and mature response TO THE QUESTION. Thanks Bros, a refreshing change from some of the ego clashes earlier.

I agree entirely with your views on both cars. The Cossie was a great car and I would probably still have mine if it hadn't been stolen (mine was a company car too), even though it let me down a few times. But I love the Scooby and hope to keep it for years.

Perhaps what we fail to appreciate on this board is that ALL the rally-derived turbo 4wd saloons are great cars and that we take them too much for granted. Just try driving a repmobile for a few days and you soon realise how different is a properly sorted car. Long live all of them, whatever the badge.

The Zohan

Waysiders - Agreed

I ihave been driving a Nissan Primera & Volvo s40 for the last two months whilst my Scoob was being repaired.
They are both good cars - The Scoob is in a different league. I got back in it Friday and realised just how 'tight' it was, slick, accurate gearchange, great brakes, mega performance, idiot-proof (within reason) handling, non-squeaky (a vision in black plastic) interior and the most wunderful exhaust note.

I have never owned a Cossie Escort, i love their looks and respect it for what it is, in the same way i do the Scoob and Evo derivitives.

These are all great cars with huge amounts of cred and quedos generally driven by enthusiastist owners, no bad thing.

[This message has been edited by Paul Habgood (edited 06 June 2001).]

Stef

Awwww, come on. You can't expect someone to ask a question on here about Cossies without gettinhg an ickile bit of stick!
Anyway, Shaolin's happy now so let's leave the banter.

Shaun.
Just like the old days eh?

Stef.

AnthonyJ

Has anyone seen that reasonably new JC video where they choose the fastest Escort Cossie over 1/4 mile and then race it against a standard sti. The cossie had over 400hp and blitzed the Subaru on the straights but understeered massively round the bends where the Subaru just tucked in nicely. The end result was that both cars got round the track in pretty much the same time - they just went about it in different ways (I'd say the Subaru was smoother and less extreme).

How does that translate into the real world? I don't know. Personally, I like to avoid the higher speeds and have a laugh round the twisty bits where I'm pretty sure that the Subaru would be more fun and safer than (even a tweaked) cossie - even if in reality it doesn't turn out to be much quicker. However, if you're the type of guy that likes to hammer down the straights and enjoys the stopping and starting then you will obviously prefer the car with the most grunt. Unfortunately that all comes down to money - I'm sure you can turn either car into a 600bhp fire breathing monster given the appropriate funds.

For me, it was budgets. Given that you can tweak a grey Impreza to something in the order of 310hp / 300 lbft with an exhaust / air filter / ECU change for a couple of grand, I think you would be hard pushed to come up with a Scooby eating Cossie for similar money. My experience with 2wd cossies was very bad - it seemed pretty easy to get them to about 250/260 hp but after that you either had to put up with reliability issues or spend lots of money - perhaps Escort Cossies are a lot better. However, I personally think that under mild tune the reality is that a Subaru engine is more reliable than the Cossie block. Can you reliably tweak a 220bhp Cossie engine to over 320 without spending a load of money?

I agree that if you're in to serious tuning then the fact that the cossie has been around longer and has more stuff available for it might make extreme tuning easier, but that doesn't really apply to the majority of people who just want to tweak their standard car without rebuilding it all from scratch.

The thing that makes it for me though it the community surrounding the Impreza and the knowledge and enthusiasm that people on this BBS have for the car. People on here are learning about things all the time and passing on their advice and expertise. I don't doubt that in the future it will be just as easy to produce a super quick Impreza as it is now with a Cossie.

What do other people reckon?!

Shaun

The JC video was abit of a nobber really, I know the Scooby and Cossie drew, and the Cossie had more power......but the Cossie was on standard suspension/handling/brakes. Not really a fair comparison, as we have already stated that the standard set-up needs attention to compete with a scoob.....let alone the set-up on an Escort with 400+bhp Secondly two people raced with different levels of driving ability!!!!!

"I personally think that under mild tune the reality is that a Subaru engine is more reliable than the Cossie block. Can you reliably tweak a 220bhp Cossie engine to over 320 without spending a load of money?"

Absolutley no way hosay!!!! The Cossie block is one of the strongest blocks around (remember it's cast iron and not alloy). It's not the engines that are weak, it's the tuners and the owners!!!! Depends what you mean by expensive 340bhp on an Escort is £1500.00 all in!!!! That isn't bad for 120bhp on standard!

and the debate goes on................

Regards,
Shaun.

Stef

Shaun.
Well more fool the Cossie owner for putting all that power through a standard suspension set-up!!
Besides, the owner does have a full set of coilovers but didn't think he'd need them on the day. Pity.

Stef.