Ducati dave

I have a MY 01 WRX with the scooby sport exhaust and all the scooby styling features you can get and its a great car. Come weekend though the bike is the main toy. Yeah its faster but thats not the point really, its so much more involving, rewarding to get right and there is no such thing as traffic. If you can afford it and you can be sensible do your test, you wont look back as I'm sure the bikers here will agree.

MattOz

PeterJ,

Your comment is something that Mr.Felstead and I hope to test out fairly soon. He's promised that he'll treat me gently, as I know that his Westie is more than a match for a bike over the Snake Pass, or up the Cat and Fiddle.

Either way, both Johns Westie and my RSV would Kill any Scoob on that type of run!

Matt

Blue

I do a lot of motoway miles - so a bike would be out of the question, not only 'cos I'd have to stop and fill up all the time(whilst a Scooby would pass!) but because my car has those nice little drinks holders and I can eat a Yorkie as I'm on the move (should I ever feel hungry enough to - which I don't as it'd spoil my concentration)

Tiggs

quick westfield is quicker than a quick bike on track by a big margin.

tiggs

Dave Brown

I was at the bike drag racing @ Crail last Sunday & had a few races...
nae chance in the scooby..even the slow bikes were under 12 seconds down the 1/4 mile

Even got beat by a quad bike ..it was a bit special though...Fireblade quad..complete nuts.I'll post up pics of it when I get them developed.
Quickest bike of the day ran a 9.6 @ 149mph...scary

Dave

ork

Well, I have already posted in a diferent topic, but I will say it again.
GSXR 750, and a Kawasaki ...750.
On the straight I was beeten in my scoob, but as soon as we hit the corners I overtook them and they never passed me again.I am sure that if they could have, they would have, but they couldn't because they would have fell of the corners.The corners were long sweeping S bends and I was sitting at 140.
I am 100% sure that on a run way they would have came first from A to B , but unfortunately for bikers there are no runways except at airports.

fast bloke

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JoeyDeacon:
<B> The ZX 12R weighs 210KG (which lets be honest is pretty lardy for a sports bike) and has 176 BHP (MCN Figures).

The Suzuki GSXR 1000 weighs 170KG and has 160BHP (again MCN figures)

[/quote]

Joey,
I haven't seen actual dyno's for back wheel power on the Suzi, but I would expect around 145. I would assume the extra cubes on the kwak will give more torque as well. I think MCN should supply you and me with a bike each so we can test it out.

MattOz

LOL at Mike! I'll have to let you have a go on it sometime!

Ork, show me the road, and eat my dust dear Boy! You really do have no idea.

Matt

Jer

Last night I was going down the motorway and a blue bike with what looked like two half diamond front lights was sitting behind me. I pulled over, he went past me and then I sat behind him while there was a car in the fast lane. When the car in the fast lane pulled over (doing about 50) we both canned it. He pulled away, but I was surprised how the Scoob kept up with it until I got to about 125 then my wife started bending my ear and I slowed down. Anyone know what kind of bike this is, I thought it was an FZR.

ork

Tractor, do you reside in a farm, and envy the thought of even being able to overtake on any straights.
Have you never opened up what ever you own?
I would be embarased aswell if I had a reputation to keep as a good rider, only to be hammered by a scooby on s-bends
Why are all the bikers so eager to try and prove other wise. I am well aware of what bikes are capable of, 80% of it is down to the rider.
I am also well aware of what I can do to them on s bends.
I am not talking about myself as being a good driver, I am talkig about the cornering capabilities of a scooby, and it just so happens that I deminstrated it on two bikes, and they lost.
It is bikers who have to be good riders, due to the shear power they generate. In a straight line, I would get my **** kicked, which I did, but, I am talking about corners. A sraight road for about a mile, s- bends for two miles then a roundabout.
I am mearly stating a fact, that I got to the roundabout first on this stretch of road.


By the way i know two people with R6's, respect, but not tooooo much.

CC

car vs bike....(whatever), much for a muchness on uk public roads..

i think you've got to be remember the actual physical sensations involved here (oo-err)lol

a car, at full rip, will push you into your seat and seem pleasurable..

whereas..

a big bike(r1, blade, gsxr 750/1000 etc) justs seems MENTAL on hard acceleration...everything becomes a blur, hard to describe it and TOTALLY diffo (and more thrilling )than a fast car such as a scoob.

ps only my humble opinion of course but it is formed from experience. i've caned my car lots of times from a stading start but a big bike (fireblade), only a few times cos its just so mad and the road has gotta be just right (ie straight, clear etc)

pss when i type caned i dont mean open it up a little, i mean properly ragged etc

MattOz

Such a shame that Donnington does not allow bikes and cars on track at the same time. Would be great to see all those Scoobies, Skylines, 911's disappearing on the rear view mirrors

Agreed, a Westie or Caterham would be a different proposition, but it would still be close.

Again, those of you who ride, and I mean REALLY ride bikes will understand that a road car would have its but kicked. Round the full circuit at Donno, there is approx. 10-15 seconds per lap in it between a Scoob and my old Blade. My RSV-R would widen that gap even more.

Of course, that's in ideal conditions Blah, Blah, Blah

Such a shame that Bedford Autodrome wouldn't allow it! I'll be there on Friday with the RSV. Now that would be fun!

Matt

Mike Tuckwood

Matt, <B>please</B> stop typing those 3 letters....... you know the ones I mean!

Mike.

ork

It's all the same with bikers isn't, were's the race track?, where's the run way,where's the drive through?
Where's your respect for scooby drivers that beet bikes thanks to the invention of sweeping s bends.
And of course a lot of bikers are not really bikers, they are the equivilent of Sunday drivers. They think that because in a straight line when they open up the throttle the thing takes off, that they will be able to do this in any situation, excluding rainy days, and hence they will beet anything, anywhere.
I tell you's you couldn'y beet up a puff pastry

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ork:
<B>It's all the same with bikers isn't, were's the race track?, where's the run way,where's the drive through?
Where's your respect for scooby drivers that beet bikes thanks to the invention of sweeping s bends.
And of course a lot of bikers are not really bikers, they are the equivilent of Sunday drivers. They think that because in a straight line when they open up the throttle the thing takes off, that they will be able to do this in any situation, excluding rainy days, and hence they will beet anything, anywhere.
I tell you's you couldn'y beet up a puff pastry [/quote]

I take it you dont ride a bike then Ork. Cause if you did you'd realise what utter bollocks your talking.

Jza

Tractor

Ork, if you were doing 140mph on a UK public road, on bends, WHILST PASSING BIKES - you are a fu**ing nutter and a danger to yourself and others.

You clearly think you are a bit of a good driver - if the bikers were pants that's why you may have passed them.

Biker and Driver of equal ability? You'd have had your ar$e kicked mate (for a sportsbike anything above 400cc I would say)

Nigel Bowles

I have a WRX heavily modified and and R6.
YES, it is great fun to come up behind a bike who winds on the power without dropping gears and waste them. The expression on their face as they look round and see you still stuck there is priceless.
If, however the biker selects the correct gear you will be left behind (baring poor road surfaces and self preservation).

If you have a bike you will already know this.

If you don't, have fun racing bikes but REMEMBER bikers are far more vunerable and need to take diffent lines on the road. Have fun but respect their safety.

End of preaching ....

MattOz

Show me the bends! More than up for kicking Scooby *** on some of those. Even promise to stay on one side of the road, so that I have to corner, and not straight line them

Matt

fast bloke

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ork:
<B>Why are all the bikers so eager to try and prove other wise. .

[/quote]

Ork, I think you will find that if you read the responses most bikers have agreed that each machine has it strong places and its weak places. You appear to be ignoring this so you can continue the argument. Easy way to settle it is for you to name the road and the time. All the bikers can show up. If you get past all of them then we will believe you - otherwise we will believe you where being exceptionally foolish passing at 140 on a bend or else you are talking complete sh*te. If you knew anything about bikes you would also realise that a bend you can take at 140 in a scoob can be substantially straightend on a bike, so you would be unlikely to get anywhere near them. The real advantage for cars comes in sub 70 MPH bends where the car can power through the bend while the bike needs to be in second to stay on the cam but you can't open the throttle until well after the apex without risking a high side.
Point is - you can argue all you want, but until you can show some understanding or have experience of both cars and bikes, no-one will believe you

MattOz

Fastbloke,

Hear Hear!!

Ork, as I've said before, if there is a time and a place that you feel is suitable, i.e your straight, s-bend and roundabout, let have it!

Matt

Tractor

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ork:
<B>Tractor, do you reside in a farm, and envy the thought of even being able to overtake on any straights.
Have you never opened up what ever you own?
[/quote]

Eh? Nope, nope, and only MY Christmas presents. My parents got pissed off when I opened those of my siblings too..... oh you mean my CAR..... sorry got confused. It's an Sti and I hang out on Scoobynet, what do YOU think?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
I would be embarased aswell if I had a reputation to keep as a good rider, only to be hammered by a scooby on s-bends
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know they had a reputation to keep?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
Why are all the bikers so eager to try and prove other wise. I am well aware of what bikes are capable of, 80% of it is down to the rider.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that what most of the bikers have been trying to say to YOU?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
I am also well aware of what I can do to them on s bends.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, scare the living cr&p out of them no doubt..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
I am not talking about myself as being a good driver, I am talkig about the cornering capabilities of a scooby, and it just so happens that I deminstrated it on two bikes, and they lost.
It is bikers who have to be good riders, due to the shear power they generate. In a straight line, I would get my **** kicked, which I did, but, I am talking about corners. A sraight road for about a mile, s- bends for two miles then a roundabout.
I am mearly stating a fact, that I got to the roundabout first on this stretch of road.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well done on coming to the end of your journey safely, having enjoyed it and caused no danger to others.....
By the way, you were not demonstrating the Scooby's superior cornering ability, just the easier accessibility of its high abilities to a mediocre driver . I don't own a bike but I would bet on the following:

An R1 at nine tenths will corner faster than a Scoob at nine tenths but be WAY hairier for the rider hence, it is harder for the rider to push to that point. You proved that the Scoob feels more secure at speed...... groundbraking, well done

Mike

[This message has been edited by Tractor (edited 24 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tractor (edited 24 May 2001).]

ork

How can you possibly say this, when you havent seen the road, don't know the bikers,
haven't seen my car, don't know what the weather was like, don't know how much traffic there was, dont know the camber of the corners, don't know the width of the corners, don't know what the tarmac suface was like, don't know the distance between the corners.
I have showed some experience about cars and bikes, not technical like race cans or scotoilers, but fact that it was done on this stretch of road.
The fact is, no matter what I say, any biker will argue that this is imposible or a myth.
No doubt, some bike will waste me this weekend, which could be expected.
This was not expected and the two bikers were thought a lesson.

LOL, MattOz, stop trying to be a boy racer and challenging me to a race.

Now who's taking the bate?

MattOz

Ork, my friend....

A race it would not be, as you would be that far behind that it wouldn't do the meaning of the word justice! Trust me!

Matt

ork

I do trust you,

But it still doen't change the fact that the bikers came second that day.

MattOz

True, True! ( in a Budweiser stylee! )

fast bloke

Originally posted by ork:
<B>How can you possibly say this, when you havent seen the road, </B> 140MPH bends are hardly twisties
<B>haven't seen my car, </B> tops out at 155 MAX
<B>don't know what the weather was like,</B> 140 in the rain? My hero
<B>don't know how much traffic there was,</B> 140 in traffic? Order your coffin
<B>dont know the camber of the corners,</B>at 140 neither would you
<B>don't know the width of the corners, </B> They can't be too narrow if you can overtake on the bend at 140
<B>don't know the distance between the corners.</B> Why would this matter on sweeping S's
<B>I have showed some experience about cars and bikes, not technical like race cans or scotoilers, but fact that it was done on this stretch of road. </B> Ummm... where
<B>The fact is, no matter what I say, any biker will argue that this is imposible or a myth.</B> ummm... where
<B>No doubt, some bike will waste me this weekend, which could be expected.
This was not expected and the two bikers were thought a lesson. </B> Why did they think a lesson



[This message has been edited by fast bloke (edited 24 May 2001).]

Mike Tuckwood

Sorry, I'm with Matt on this one..... to the extent that I'll provide the pace car to film the video for Ork to sob over afterwards.

Those at the wheel BHP figures sound fairly accurate, My Blackbird (despite its bulk) had a dyno'd 150 bhp at the wheel.

It would do 72MPH in first gear and pure acceleration would see the front wheel 2 feet off the floor at the point of changing into second. 0-60 was circa 3 seconds. It would accelerate at a similar rate all the way up to an indicated 190mph on the clock. (Prone or down behind the fairing, with or without a passenger) &lt;Insert Multiple smilies here&gt;

<I>I feel a firestorm looming to get me through summer?</I>

[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 24 May 2001).]

MattOz

Mike,

Firestorm?! I've got three letters for you! Bet you can't guess what they are! LOL

Matt

Podger

I run a Suzuku Hayabusa, it's the second one I have had , it's tweaked , develops 179bhp at the wheels corrected.A standard Hayabusa is quicker than this QSXR1000 that was mentioned earlier in the post, (see Fast Bike ).

I've ridden for years , I'm in the fast group at track days , but on public road I couldn't use "all" the road, and in the twsties the Impreza is more controllable, come the straight you wouldn't see the 'Busa for dust.

I was coming down the M5 the other Sunday morning , and not a lot of traffic about,in the fast lane was a very "breathed upon " Mitsubushi Evo , who wanted to have a go, I admit I had to come down a gear , but I blew him away at 155mph , we had two goes , all very "gentalmany " , and I had so much fun , that I missed my turnoff at Worcester and had to go down to the next junction to turn round!!.

I'm glad I was on the Busa , cos I couldn't have performed so well against him in my Scoobie !!

matt d

I don't know whether ork's story is true or exaggerated, but I have to say that I've not had a problem keeping up with sports bikes on corners, and I am just an average enthusiast driver not a track day expert or genuinely good instructor/race driver.

A good example is the B4501 in N Wales north from Cerrigydrudion, this road has quite a good surface and some fast 110-130mph long uphill sweepers. Climbing the first straight on that road one day I got caught up by a couple of bikers on Yamahas, one a FZR 600 (not sure about the other). After going through some twisties it opened up so I slowed & pulled left to let them past - only one of them overtook so I followed him round the twisty bends and onto the sweepers. The scoob kept up no problem on the twisty dips & crests, then when the biker got onto the long sweepers he went reasonably quick up to about 120 in places, but the car kept up and felt like it had more in reserve, and I could keep up until we got to a long straight near the end of the road where obviously he pulled away.

I know he was trying because he was stopped at the side of the road when I came along, and when he took off his helmet his face was bright red! The second biker turned up about 20 seconds later by the way, despite being right behind me at the start of the twisty stuff - not sure what Yamaha he had though, it could be a 125 for all I know.

Ok so the car got left behind on the straights, but on the corners it kept up with a biker who was driving flat out (for him, obviously Carl Fogarty would be quicker!) and pulled away from a 2nd biker. This is in sunny dry conditions on a well-surfaced road i.e. favouring the bike, plus I had my girlfriend and holiday luggage in the car.

This isn't an isolated case, I always make it easy for bikes to overtake then try to follow them, and unless there is traffic or poor visibility (bikers usually go to fast to stop if something is round a corner) I don't usually have a problem keeping up if the road is twisty or even just lots of sweeping bends. It is not just me either, I know a guy with a tuned R32 Skyline who followed an R1 down the A543 (another fast N Wales road) and was still stuck to his tail at 150 by the end of it - the biker couldn't go faster for fear of being thrown off, in fact he almost fell off in shock when he looked round to see the car still behind him! Good driver's roads aren't race tracks - they have rain, bumps, stone chips, mud and so on which all conspire to slow a fast bike down and limit its top speed.

If you look at lap times for the Nurburgring, a good proxy for roads, then bikes like the R1 are only about 35s quicker than a bog standard scoob, despite having a huge acceleration advantage on the not inconsiderable straight parts of the circuit. A 276bhp scoob or Evo would only be 15-25s behind, and I bet all of that comes from the bike's better straight line acceleration and top speed.

Are bikers significantly quicker from A to B? When there is traffic, or if there are decent straights, yes, but only in the dry on well-surfaced roads. If the roads have bends it becomes closer, and if they are twisty, poorly surfaced, or it is wet then they no longer have an advantage and are frequently slower. There are even some straights where a bike would be slower in the dry, e.g. the long stretches at the north end of the B660 which are too bumpy for bikes to go really fast on, whereas a scoob can max out at 155 (albeit it will be thrown into the air a few times).

[This message has been edited by matt d (edited 24 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by matt d (edited 24 May 2001).]