Scoobies vs Bikes...gentlemen start your engine!
24 May 2001, 03:51 PM
#61
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matt d,
Seems like fair comment, though things have come a long way since the FZR600. And how much power does a tuned R32 make? Either way, you're on the money about bumpy/wet roads, and that's certainly when you'd close up the most on even the best-ridden bike.
All of us would agree (maybe one exception) that it's a case of horses for courses, and that it probably takes more skill to extract the performance from the bike than from the car.
Your point about the Nurburgring was interesting, but slightly misinformed, I think. I've neither ridden nor driven there, but I've seen an interview with one of the 'Ring bike instructors where he states that you can't use more than 45hp of a bike's power for something like the last third of the circuit.
Anyone with 'Ring experience care to comment?
Bros
Seems like fair comment, though things have come a long way since the FZR600. And how much power does a tuned R32 make? Either way, you're on the money about bumpy/wet roads, and that's certainly when you'd close up the most on even the best-ridden bike.
All of us would agree (maybe one exception) that it's a case of horses for courses, and that it probably takes more skill to extract the performance from the bike than from the car.
Your point about the Nurburgring was interesting, but slightly misinformed, I think. I've neither ridden nor driven there, but I've seen an interview with one of the 'Ring bike instructors where he states that you can't use more than 45hp of a bike's power for something like the last third of the circuit.
Anyone with 'Ring experience care to comment?
Bros
24 May 2001, 04:01 PM
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Bros,
Would kinda confirm what the Ring instructor is saying there. Once you reach the right hander called Hohe Acht, it's a twisty turny downhill section that greets you called the Wipperman. This, coupled to the nasty ( on a bike) corner called Brunnchen, and also slippery surfaces leads to caution.
Not sure if he means 45% or 45hp, but either way it's tricky. You also have Pflanzgarten 1 and 2 . Here. a bike would be slower than a car, because the track drops away, and bikes lift a front wheel where they should be braking (Pflanzgarten 1)
All in all, pretty daunting. I'm hoping to get my bike out there sometime this year. Maybe August? For now though, I'll stick to my car
Matt
Would kinda confirm what the Ring instructor is saying there. Once you reach the right hander called Hohe Acht, it's a twisty turny downhill section that greets you called the Wipperman. This, coupled to the nasty ( on a bike) corner called Brunnchen, and also slippery surfaces leads to caution.
Not sure if he means 45% or 45hp, but either way it's tricky. You also have Pflanzgarten 1 and 2 . Here. a bike would be slower than a car, because the track drops away, and bikes lift a front wheel where they should be braking (Pflanzgarten 1)
All in all, pretty daunting. I'm hoping to get my bike out there sometime this year. Maybe August? For now though, I'll stick to my car
Matt
24 May 2001, 04:25 PM
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MattOz,
He really did mean 45hp - he was riding round on an Aprilia Pegaso, and some of the group he was leading queried his choice of bike.
His response was that he'd go no faster on anything else in the final section - the more power you had, the more likely you would be to highside.
Bros
He really did mean 45hp - he was riding round on an Aprilia Pegaso, and some of the group he was leading queried his choice of bike.
His response was that he'd go no faster on anything else in the final section - the more power you had, the more likely you would be to highside.
Bros
24 May 2001, 05:05 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fast bloke:
<B> Joey,
I haven't seen actual dyno's for back wheel power on the Suzi, but I would expect around 145. I would assume the extra cubes on the kwak will give more torque as well. I think MCN should supply you and me with a bike each so we can test it out.
[/quote]
You could probably have a 125 and I could have the ZX 12R and you would still kick my **** as I haven't even got a licence!!
This should be changing soon though as I have just booked my DAS for July!
<B> Joey,
I haven't seen actual dyno's for back wheel power on the Suzi, but I would expect around 145. I would assume the extra cubes on the kwak will give more torque as well. I think MCN should supply you and me with a bike each so we can test it out.
[/quote]You could probably have a 125 and I could have the ZX 12R and you would still kick my **** as I haven't even got a licence!!
This should be changing soon though as I have just booked my DAS for July!
24 May 2001, 05:29 PM
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Mike..............RSVRSVRSVRSVRSVRSVRSVRSV...RRRRR RRR 
:
I`ll have a go anytime around a track or road.
In the dry of course.
Bike will w3nk on ANY car.
Matt are you going the Donington on Sunday?
Ring me and we`ll meet up.
:I`ll have a go anytime around a track or road.
In the dry of course.
Bike will w3nk on ANY car.
Matt are you going the Donington on Sunday?
Ring me and we`ll meet up.
24 May 2001, 07:46 PM
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I've told this story before, but it would be rude not to put it in this thread!
There's a road near me which is frequented by bikers on most fine Sundays. It's the B645 from Higham Ferrers to St Neots. Some of you will undoubtedly know it.
I have a friend who used to own a Blade. It was mildly tuned, and this guy can really ride. One Sunday we went out for a bit of fun and as we both knew the road quite well, we decided to go along the 645 to comapre machines. It was always too dangerous to race a bike in a car, so what we used to do was play 'catch-up', similar to a track day really. I would set off first, and he would set off 15 secs later. The deal was to simply see whether he could catch me up before I arrived in Kimbolton, some 11 miles away. He arrived in Kimbolton 30 secs after me! He and I were stunned. And I do mean stunned. As a direct consequence of this encounter, he sold the Blade and bought a Scoob, which he still owns. He actually enjoys telling this story down the pub.
Now it obviously doesn't actually prove anything, but the fact is that I hadn't had the Scoob for long, and he'd been on bikes for years. We both knew the road, and it was sunny and dry. The road contains both tight twisties and a mile long straight. Read from it what you will.
As far as the CK1 video is concerned, that's another story. There were some bikers who were much faster round the Ring, but not many. If a bike was a better all-rounder than a Scoob, why don't they perform as well at such a circuit? I know it's a dangerous place and a biker has far more to lose, but isn't that part of the fun on two-wheels?
At the Easter trip, not one bike came past, which surprised me. Now it could just have been that all the bikers there that weekend were softies, or the fast ones were never out on track at the same time as me, but that's unlikely. Yes, you can take more liberties in a Scoob and get away with it, that's the security a shell and four wheels offer.
A bike may well offer a greater out-and-out experience of speed, but put an average rider on a bike against an average driver in a Scoob around The Ring, and I know who my money would be on.
Stef.
There's a road near me which is frequented by bikers on most fine Sundays. It's the B645 from Higham Ferrers to St Neots. Some of you will undoubtedly know it.
I have a friend who used to own a Blade. It was mildly tuned, and this guy can really ride. One Sunday we went out for a bit of fun and as we both knew the road quite well, we decided to go along the 645 to comapre machines. It was always too dangerous to race a bike in a car, so what we used to do was play 'catch-up', similar to a track day really. I would set off first, and he would set off 15 secs later. The deal was to simply see whether he could catch me up before I arrived in Kimbolton, some 11 miles away. He arrived in Kimbolton 30 secs after me! He and I were stunned. And I do mean stunned. As a direct consequence of this encounter, he sold the Blade and bought a Scoob, which he still owns. He actually enjoys telling this story down the pub.
Now it obviously doesn't actually prove anything, but the fact is that I hadn't had the Scoob for long, and he'd been on bikes for years. We both knew the road, and it was sunny and dry. The road contains both tight twisties and a mile long straight. Read from it what you will.
As far as the CK1 video is concerned, that's another story. There were some bikers who were much faster round the Ring, but not many. If a bike was a better all-rounder than a Scoob, why don't they perform as well at such a circuit? I know it's a dangerous place and a biker has far more to lose, but isn't that part of the fun on two-wheels?
At the Easter trip, not one bike came past, which surprised me. Now it could just have been that all the bikers there that weekend were softies, or the fast ones were never out on track at the same time as me, but that's unlikely. Yes, you can take more liberties in a Scoob and get away with it, that's the security a shell and four wheels offer.
A bike may well offer a greater out-and-out experience of speed, but put an average rider on a bike against an average driver in a Scoob around The Ring, and I know who my money would be on.
Stef.
24 May 2001, 08:01 PM
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anyone got some times for their laps round circuits- my guess is that a fast biker (me!) would be quicker than a most road cars but i know race cars (catherham etc) are quicker still. in fact the catherham club racers do times faster than GP500 riders at donno.
tiggs
never bothered going fast on roads against cars as i'd either a) thrash the car and destroy the drivers self worth or b) die
never liked those odds much!!
ps- isn't it sunny!
tiggs
never bothered going fast on roads against cars as i'd either a) thrash the car and destroy the drivers self worth or b) die
never liked those odds much!!
ps- isn't it sunny!
24 May 2001, 09:44 PM
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Look it's simple a to b bikes are quickest. A to Z however is a different matter. In other words a 20 mile trip will undoubtedly be made quicker by a competent biker. A 250 mile trip could be potentially quicker on a bike but at least you can walk at the end of such a trip after getting out of a car.
You know what I mean,
You know what I mean,
24 May 2001, 10:30 PM
#74
I'm sure on a circuit a bike would easily beat a car, but then thats not the real world is it ! You can corner the bike with confidence that you won't need to brake mid corner, there won't be an oil patch etc etc.
We've got a Scoob and a CBR600 and over fast trafic infested A roads the bike would win easily. Given a twisty b road, the bike wouldn't get near the scoob,easily.
Steve.
We've got a Scoob and a CBR600 and over fast trafic infested A roads the bike would win easily. Given a twisty b road, the bike wouldn't get near the scoob,easily.
Steve.
25 May 2001, 12:06 AM
#76
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LOL, very true Bros, the arrangement of the road may have been twisted it's self by me
OK guys,
I am obviously not very good at describing roads. So here goes.
It is the A82, heading towards Balloch and then on towards Fort William.
There is a roundabout at Dunbarton followed by a (lets say) 3-4 mile stretch of road. This ends at a roundabout that takes you into Balloch, or straight on towards Duck Bay Marina, and then onto Luss etc...
Check it out on your maps. I am sure some people will know it as it is regullarly infested with bikes and fast cars. It is a great road to drive on regardless of the speed you want to do, or what your means of transportation are.
Thats the place, you name the time matey
OK guys,
I am obviously not very good at describing roads. So here goes.
It is the A82, heading towards Balloch and then on towards Fort William.
There is a roundabout at Dunbarton followed by a (lets say) 3-4 mile stretch of road. This ends at a roundabout that takes you into Balloch, or straight on towards Duck Bay Marina, and then onto Luss etc...
Check it out on your maps. I am sure some people will know it as it is regullarly infested with bikes and fast cars. It is a great road to drive on regardless of the speed you want to do, or what your means of transportation are.
Thats the place, you name the time matey
25 May 2001, 12:07 AM
#77
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Having ridden a bike for the last 10 years before selling it last year, I count myself extremely lucky that I never came off. My brother in law and several mates have all had nasty accidents on their bikes, leaving them with plates in various different parts of their anatomy or crutches for life.
So would I buy another bike ? hell yeah! (R1 I'm thinking) 400% more fun than my MY00!
Neil T
So would I buy another bike ? hell yeah! (R1 I'm thinking) 400% more fun than my MY00!
Neil T
25 May 2001, 12:13 AM
#78
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Ork, will be heading up that road next Friday evening, so will try to remember to look for that section.
All else, will report back what kind of road it is
All else, will report back what kind of road it is
25 May 2001, 12:19 AM
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Ork, To be totally honest I have probably been unfair. Your story sounds unlikely, but had Stef posted the same story, I would most likely have believed it. (I've seen the ring clips - landing a bike crossed up coming into a bend would spell instant pain.) So I will say now, I believe your story
p.s. I haven't decided which version to go for yet. The twisties sounds good except for the 140, the dual carriageway sounds less likely, but the speeds might be realistic. Can you do a final version for us non-believers. Try to include some slow corners, a bit of gravel, a few potholes and maybe some rain. Then you might get some more takers
p.s. I haven't decided which version to go for yet. The twisties sounds good except for the 140, the dual carriageway sounds less likely, but the speeds might be realistic. Can you do a final version for us non-believers. Try to include some slow corners, a bit of gravel, a few potholes and maybe some rain. Then you might get some more takers
25 May 2001, 12:24 AM
#82
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I know the road, if you'd come out of the roundabout even with the bike at say 30-40 the bike would have been well in front till after the flyover at the River Leven and turnoff for Renton maxing at 130-150(based on sports 600) depending on his level of madness. Then its the sweeping right hand bend and at this point you may have had the opportunity to catch some of the loss you'd built up him if he let off but not overtaken thru the bend as you'd then be on the inside of the bend so its tighter.
Despite your earlier references its without doubt one of the longest straight sections of road around and also in the way back from Balloch too. He either wasn't trying or had whipped you so pulled up or thought twice about losing his licence/lifw, try the back of a bike and you'll see my friend.......If you need stories then I can give you plenty the other way, the problem with some of the people on here is that with regards to Scoobys then they need to change the rules to suit. oooohhhh 911's are crap too expensive, Bikes not good in real world, Cossies rubbish, Evos too extreme etc etc. Wish people could just appreciate cars/bikes in general for what they are.
The fact is that I could go down today and buy a new 6500GBP bike and take you up that straight without any trouble but then you'd need to change the rules.
Regards
Cammy
Despite your earlier references its without doubt one of the longest straight sections of road around and also in the way back from Balloch too. He either wasn't trying or had whipped you so pulled up or thought twice about losing his licence/lifw, try the back of a bike and you'll see my friend.......If you need stories then I can give you plenty the other way, the problem with some of the people on here is that with regards to Scoobys then they need to change the rules to suit. oooohhhh 911's are crap too expensive, Bikes not good in real world, Cossies rubbish, Evos too extreme etc etc. Wish people could just appreciate cars/bikes in general for what they are.
The fact is that I could go down today and buy a new 6500GBP bike and take you up that straight without any trouble but then you'd need to change the rules.
Regards
Cammy
25 May 2001, 12:30 AM
#83
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ork hopefully i'll be in the region later this summer on the 750 (mother in law has a farm at grantown on spey and friends in the kirriemuir area) i will e mail you and we can play if you want on your road as i think i may have travelled on it once or twice before and i think it may be closer than you expect if i really try a bit.
ps there is one awesome road between grantown and tomintoul the a939 try it if you can both ways it has got everything and yes you may just beat a bike along it
have fun and be safe
richie
ps there is one awesome road between grantown and tomintoul the a939 try it if you can both ways it has got everything and yes you may just beat a bike along it
have fun and be safe
richie
25 May 2001, 12:53 AM
#84
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Camy,
Your story has some very valid points, but it purely highpitheticall?
"I know the road, if you'd come out of the roundabout even with the bike at say 30-40 the bike would have been well in front till after the flyover at the River Leven and turnoff for Renton maxing at 130-150(based on sports 600) depending on his level of madness. Then its the sweeping right hand bend and at this point you may have had the opportunity to catch some of the loss you'd built up him if he let off but not overtaken thru the bend as you'd then be on the inside of the bend so its tighter."
I was in the right hand lane at this point.
They were still in front of me after the long sweepng right hander just after the fly over. It wasn't until the next sweeping left hander after the straight, that I passed them. Note that this bend is tighter than the previous right hander. Maybey they did have to back off due to the bikes cornering capabilites, but thats were I had the advantage, and passed them. I made up ground after that sweeping left hander, and as you will know the next roundabout is about a mile ahead.
With your reference to it being one of the straightest roads around, what about the 20 mile straight road that joins Glasgow to Dunbarton? Or the 5 mile straights that can be found just after Luss?
I know when I have been whipped or when I have just whipped someone. As I said earlier, a TVR wasted me on the motorway. Now I didn't make up a story about that,saying that I had backed off or I wasn't trying. Pish flaps! I accepted it. But some of you cannt bloody well accept this. You are going as far as mentioning pot holes? LOL
Has anyone answered my question, which has more grip, a bike with whatever size of tyre is on a bike, or a scooby with 18, and 35's.
If, say one of you bikers came to this road and we battled it out and you wipped me, fair doooos. I would accept this without looking back.
I think that given certain circumstances everybody will boast that theres it better than your. Thats why I had a go at the TVR and he thought me a lesson. But hey the guy was freindly and we had a laugh.
Your story has some very valid points, but it purely highpitheticall?
"I know the road, if you'd come out of the roundabout even with the bike at say 30-40 the bike would have been well in front till after the flyover at the River Leven and turnoff for Renton maxing at 130-150(based on sports 600) depending on his level of madness. Then its the sweeping right hand bend and at this point you may have had the opportunity to catch some of the loss you'd built up him if he let off but not overtaken thru the bend as you'd then be on the inside of the bend so its tighter."
I was in the right hand lane at this point.
They were still in front of me after the long sweepng right hander just after the fly over. It wasn't until the next sweeping left hander after the straight, that I passed them. Note that this bend is tighter than the previous right hander. Maybey they did have to back off due to the bikes cornering capabilites, but thats were I had the advantage, and passed them. I made up ground after that sweeping left hander, and as you will know the next roundabout is about a mile ahead.
With your reference to it being one of the straightest roads around, what about the 20 mile straight road that joins Glasgow to Dunbarton? Or the 5 mile straights that can be found just after Luss?
I know when I have been whipped or when I have just whipped someone. As I said earlier, a TVR wasted me on the motorway. Now I didn't make up a story about that,saying that I had backed off or I wasn't trying. Pish flaps! I accepted it. But some of you cannt bloody well accept this. You are going as far as mentioning pot holes? LOL
Has anyone answered my question, which has more grip, a bike with whatever size of tyre is on a bike, or a scooby with 18, and 35's.
If, say one of you bikers came to this road and we battled it out and you wipped me, fair doooos. I would accept this without looking back.
I think that given certain circumstances everybody will boast that theres it better than your. Thats why I had a go at the TVR and he thought me a lesson. But hey the guy was freindly and we had a laugh.
25 May 2001, 01:21 AM
#85
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Matt D, Stef, Jason B,Steve B
I know you could be bikers trying to be
sarcastic, but if you are not, then it is great to hear these stories.
I must admit you have put your pionts across better than I have, which will get you a compromise from some bikers. Nice one.
Fast bloke:- my car may top out at 155, but I was not doing 155,I didn't need to, the way the road went, my scoob clearly had better grip than the bikers, hence they could not keep up.
The road was actually a dual carriage way, which theoretically the bike should have the advatage.
We were all lucky not to have been put in coffins, but the same could be said for travelling at 70 or even 30 for that matter.
I know the road very well. It is one mile from my house. Which could be an advantage over the bikers, as they could have been from out of town?
Could the distances between the curves of the S not be made up by the shear power of a bike?
What more experience do you need,Knockhill? Done it, third best driver of the day.
This was in a car not a bike.
And no it wasn't a learners course or an advanced driving course!
I do not need to know anything about bikes, I don't what to, if I did, I would buy one.
I know that they are bloody fast,and almost impossible to follow in most cars.
"The real advantage for cars comes in sub 70 MPH bends where the car can power through the bend while the bike needs to be in second to stay on the cam but you can't open the throttle until well after the apex without risking a high side."
Is this something you have experienced on a certain bend youself, or do all bikes agree with this?
I have seen some bikers comming out of blind corners, doing about fifty, on B roads with the front wheel about 2 feet in the air, going BETWEEN two cars at the corner, on a single carriage way, absolutely screeming down the road. Maybey thats' just nutter Scottish Bikers though.
What has got more grip, a bike with what ever size of tyres it may have, or a scooby with 18 wheels, and 35 profiles?
How can I put this politly,
IT HAPPENED.
Bros, I could only imagine that it takes more skill to extract the performance of a bike and to apply it to the road. At speeds of 140 though, it does take a LOT of skill by both biker and a driver.
Something that I did not mention before was that my scoob, actully felt solid on the road, even at that speed. If at any point it had even started to twitch I would have backed off, but it didn't.
Which brings me to my next point that it's also down to bottle. Whether you are in a car or riding a bike, you are obviously going to face different challenges to get the most from your machine.
My freind got a CBR600 a couple of years back, he did not have alot of experience then, but could still make any normal car look rediculously slow, due to the power of the bike, and that's only a 600.
Yes a bike does have more power, probably looks more intimidating, probably does do
0-60 or 0-100 in half the time a scoob can do it in, which is probably what makes me happy, because the threat was extinguished!
I know you could be bikers trying to be
sarcastic, but if you are not, then it is great to hear these stories.
I must admit you have put your pionts across better than I have, which will get you a compromise from some bikers. Nice one.
Fast bloke:- my car may top out at 155, but I was not doing 155,I didn't need to, the way the road went, my scoob clearly had better grip than the bikers, hence they could not keep up.
The road was actually a dual carriage way, which theoretically the bike should have the advatage.
We were all lucky not to have been put in coffins, but the same could be said for travelling at 70 or even 30 for that matter.
I know the road very well. It is one mile from my house. Which could be an advantage over the bikers, as they could have been from out of town?
Could the distances between the curves of the S not be made up by the shear power of a bike?
What more experience do you need,Knockhill? Done it, third best driver of the day.
This was in a car not a bike.
And no it wasn't a learners course or an advanced driving course!
I do not need to know anything about bikes, I don't what to, if I did, I would buy one.
I know that they are bloody fast,and almost impossible to follow in most cars.
"The real advantage for cars comes in sub 70 MPH bends where the car can power through the bend while the bike needs to be in second to stay on the cam but you can't open the throttle until well after the apex without risking a high side."
Is this something you have experienced on a certain bend youself, or do all bikes agree with this?
I have seen some bikers comming out of blind corners, doing about fifty, on B roads with the front wheel about 2 feet in the air, going BETWEEN two cars at the corner, on a single carriage way, absolutely screeming down the road. Maybey thats' just nutter Scottish Bikers though.
What has got more grip, a bike with what ever size of tyres it may have, or a scooby with 18 wheels, and 35 profiles?
How can I put this politly,
IT HAPPENED.
Bros, I could only imagine that it takes more skill to extract the performance of a bike and to apply it to the road. At speeds of 140 though, it does take a LOT of skill by both biker and a driver.
Something that I did not mention before was that my scoob, actully felt solid on the road, even at that speed. If at any point it had even started to twitch I would have backed off, but it didn't.
Which brings me to my next point that it's also down to bottle. Whether you are in a car or riding a bike, you are obviously going to face different challenges to get the most from your machine.
My freind got a CBR600 a couple of years back, he did not have alot of experience then, but could still make any normal car look rediculously slow, due to the power of the bike, and that's only a 600.
Yes a bike does have more power, probably looks more intimidating, probably does do
0-60 or 0-100 in half the time a scoob can do it in, which is probably what makes me happy, because the threat was extinguished!
25 May 2001, 04:18 AM
#86
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bikes and cars are both great machines,BUT anyone ever spun a bike, there's no second chance. I've both but for pushing, the car is the better bet. Imagine switching your brakes of in your Scooby every time you corner. Track is the only decent place to push a bike regardless of which is quicker.
25 May 2001, 07:22 AM
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got both scoobie and bike (750) and in a lovley winding, wet, poorly surfaced ,traffic free,undulating stretch of road the scoob may win on the odd occasion as some have said ,(but in the real world with traffic,straights, plod and gatsos 99% of the time no chance) with the sparcity of these stories showing how often they happen. personally if some t*at passes me at 130 or above im not giving chase ill follow at a discreet distance untill he stops then impress upon the bounder my upset at his disregard for my safty(esp if his scoob is nicer than mine)
seriously who cares anyway its all about fun .everyone should have both in the garage for when the occasion demands.
lets keep this thread going cos the weathers good this weekend so if a biker sees a scooby or vice versa lets play then post the results. lets just not kill each other.
happy hunting
richie
damn this is a long post.written after 12 hour nights so sorry for rambling
ps while i remember lots of bikes slow down when they see a scooby closing cos plod think they make good bike chasers.
[This message has been edited by Richiehash (edited 25 May 2001).]
extra point bikes are only half as vulnerable as cars to gatso no front plate best to wheelie toward them at 60 or so so the police can clearly see your front and rear tires are legal.and you cant do that in a scoob not even the wife can
[This message has been edited by Richiehash (edited 25 May 2001).]
seriously who cares anyway its all about fun .everyone should have both in the garage for when the occasion demands.
lets keep this thread going cos the weathers good this weekend so if a biker sees a scooby or vice versa lets play then post the results. lets just not kill each other.
happy hunting
richie
damn this is a long post.written after 12 hour nights so sorry for rambling
ps while i remember lots of bikes slow down when they see a scooby closing cos plod think they make good bike chasers.
[This message has been edited by Richiehash (edited 25 May 2001).]
extra point bikes are only half as vulnerable as cars to gatso no front plate best to wheelie toward them at 60 or so so the police can clearly see your front and rear tires are legal.and you cant do that in a scoob not even the wife can
[This message has been edited by Richiehash (edited 25 May 2001).]
25 May 2001, 08:25 AM
#88
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Ork.
I am definitely not a sarcastic biker!!!
I have lots of mates with Blades, Gixers, R1's, etc, and they all have the utmost respect for the Scoob after driving and or going out in mine.
Most of them still prefer the experience a bike offers, and that's something a Scoob, or most cars for that matter will never emulate.
At least three of them now have Scoobies as well as their bikes though!!!
Stef.
I am definitely not a sarcastic biker!!!
I have lots of mates with Blades, Gixers, R1's, etc, and they all have the utmost respect for the Scoob after driving and or going out in mine.
Most of them still prefer the experience a bike offers, and that's something a Scoob, or most cars for that matter will never emulate.
At least three of them now have Scoobies as well as their bikes though!!!
Stef.
25 May 2001, 09:15 AM
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This is an age-old debate, which neither side will really concede on, so I’ll just add some more fact (rather than conjecture) to the pot.
BIKE magazine ran a contest between a Yamaha YZF-R1 and an STI V last year, on the following parameters:0-100, 100-0, roundabouts, and twisty roads. The driver they used was Matt Neal, who races in the British Saloon Cars championship. The rider was Martin Child, best known for being a stunt rider/journalist, but who also finished 6th in the Newcomers Manx GP, 600cc class. In other words, the driver can really drive, the rider can really ride, with a slight advantage to the driver.
In the 0-100 the car lost. No problems with that, we all know that would happen.
In the 100-0 the car lost, though it was very close – the car was all over the place (no ABS) and I suspect most of us wouldn’t be able to match the performance. Most riders would be able to come close to the braking performance on the bike – the R1 has lovely brakes, easily controlled.
On the roundabouts (they set up a ‘roundabout’ on an airfield and did 10 attempts, then averaged the times) the car won, by the slimmest of margins. The rider kept trying, but was right on the limit of falling off and still couldn’t catch the Scoob.
On the B roads (again, constructed of cones on an airfield), the bike won by a reasonable time margin. In addition, the car was sideways through most of the corners, and clearly you can’t do this on the roads.
Overall: The bike won, though it was close. The car (which had new tyres on just before the test, nicely scrubbed in) had done 80 miles on the test and completely destroyed the tyres. The clutch had taken a pasting. The bike ….no problems at all.
Now, the test may or may not have been skewed towards the bike. I’m willing to accept that this is the case, but then it must be admitted that Matt Neal isn’t just your average driver. He commented that there was no way at all that he could drive like that on the road and live, and one of his closing comments was that “the bike would leave you for dead on the roads, no problem.” The biggest problem for the car was dealing with the weight, whereas for the bike it was trying to avoid a highside on the exit to slow corners – the car would apply the power far earlier and thus make up a lot of ground mid-corner.
There must be an element of journalistic licence in this – the guy who wrote the story was the rider of the bike, so there’s just a hint of insider interest here! Nevertheless, it remains the case that even on twisty roads, with an immensely skilled driver, the car wasn’t as fast as a quick bike with a skilled rider.
Another test last year, this time by CAR magazine, tested several cars around Croft circuit. They also tried an R1, this time piloted by Ronnie Smith, who although a club racer of some repute, is some way short of international status. He was (if I remember correctly) about 5 seconds faster than anything else, including a Caterham R500. If you’ve ever driven or ridden around Croft, you’ll know that it’s not especially favourable to bikes (bumpy ans anything). I’m afraid I can’t remember whether a Scoob or Evo was included in the test, but there’s no way they’d be as quick as an R500.
What does this prove? That in the dry an £8000 bike will almost always beat a car (price immaterial). If it’s wet, or the rider is a muppet, the car will win. Which is what most of us have been saying all along.
Bros
BIKE magazine ran a contest between a Yamaha YZF-R1 and an STI V last year, on the following parameters:0-100, 100-0, roundabouts, and twisty roads. The driver they used was Matt Neal, who races in the British Saloon Cars championship. The rider was Martin Child, best known for being a stunt rider/journalist, but who also finished 6th in the Newcomers Manx GP, 600cc class. In other words, the driver can really drive, the rider can really ride, with a slight advantage to the driver.
In the 0-100 the car lost. No problems with that, we all know that would happen.
In the 100-0 the car lost, though it was very close – the car was all over the place (no ABS) and I suspect most of us wouldn’t be able to match the performance. Most riders would be able to come close to the braking performance on the bike – the R1 has lovely brakes, easily controlled.
On the roundabouts (they set up a ‘roundabout’ on an airfield and did 10 attempts, then averaged the times) the car won, by the slimmest of margins. The rider kept trying, but was right on the limit of falling off and still couldn’t catch the Scoob.
On the B roads (again, constructed of cones on an airfield), the bike won by a reasonable time margin. In addition, the car was sideways through most of the corners, and clearly you can’t do this on the roads.
Overall: The bike won, though it was close. The car (which had new tyres on just before the test, nicely scrubbed in) had done 80 miles on the test and completely destroyed the tyres. The clutch had taken a pasting. The bike ….no problems at all.
Now, the test may or may not have been skewed towards the bike. I’m willing to accept that this is the case, but then it must be admitted that Matt Neal isn’t just your average driver. He commented that there was no way at all that he could drive like that on the road and live, and one of his closing comments was that “the bike would leave you for dead on the roads, no problem.” The biggest problem for the car was dealing with the weight, whereas for the bike it was trying to avoid a highside on the exit to slow corners – the car would apply the power far earlier and thus make up a lot of ground mid-corner.
There must be an element of journalistic licence in this – the guy who wrote the story was the rider of the bike, so there’s just a hint of insider interest here! Nevertheless, it remains the case that even on twisty roads, with an immensely skilled driver, the car wasn’t as fast as a quick bike with a skilled rider.
Another test last year, this time by CAR magazine, tested several cars around Croft circuit. They also tried an R1, this time piloted by Ronnie Smith, who although a club racer of some repute, is some way short of international status. He was (if I remember correctly) about 5 seconds faster than anything else, including a Caterham R500. If you’ve ever driven or ridden around Croft, you’ll know that it’s not especially favourable to bikes (bumpy ans anything). I’m afraid I can’t remember whether a Scoob or Evo was included in the test, but there’s no way they’d be as quick as an R500.
What does this prove? That in the dry an £8000 bike will almost always beat a car (price immaterial). If it’s wet, or the rider is a muppet, the car will win. Which is what most of us have been saying all along.
Bros