fast bloke

Aaaaaaaaaarrgh. To much beer and info at this point. Wheredid anyone say the scoobs where 'better' than bikes or vice versa. Most people who have the experience to comment have said that in a given set of circumstances, each has its advantage. ( Posted by Moi on page 1 "I would still be hard pushed to make the choice. " the arguement here stems from non-bikers being unable to admit they lack the necessary experience to comment. I don't see any posts from any bikers who don't own/ pray for a scoob. If you haven't tried both, don't knock it. Until 2 months ago I owned both. I loved them both, I kissed them both goodnight. Cars are not better. Bikes are not better. I used to wake up on a Sunday morning and look out the window before I decided how to break the law. Rules where - Blue sky - bike, grey sky - scoob - green and orange spots - rob a bank. Only three cars can compete with a quick bike on real roads, Scoob, Evo and Skyline. I've wasted more Porkies, Ferraries, M beamers, TVR's and the odd Lambo than I've had petrol stops. I love cars. I love bike. My point is, on a dry day the bike is faster

ARRON BIRD

Stef anytime you wanna go down the b645 let me know.
Mike anytime matey :

Mike Tuckwood

ork

Jza,

"Can you be 100% sure the bikers had the throttles completely open? Could you see this?"

No, they were definately opened up on the straight though.If the throttles were completely open on th s bends they would have fell off unfortunatelly.

"Can you be 100% sure they were attempting to catch and overtake you?"

Two foot from my rear bumper going into the left hand s bend. They were certainly up to something!

"Can you be 100% sure they didnt think "he can go for it - my lifes worth more than some race with a nutter in a scooby who could cause an accident if we got near him"?"

I like the way you deliberately say that if an accident had happened that it would have been my fault. Again they were very close. I on the other hand used my indicators when overtaking, and always checked my mirrors, unlike bikers who never use theirs.
Who's more likely to cause an accident, a maniac on a bike, provocing a race with a scooby, which is what happened if you had read my story. Again you are another person who seems to be making excusses for the bikers?

"Can you be certain that the bikers didnt feel that they had nothing to prove? People dont race Novas in their scoobies because they know they can beat them."

Very valid statement.

"The answer to the all the above is, im afraid NO (im a mind reader you see)."

Yes, I beleive you, who old are you?

"And therefore your posts are pointless and stupid and you are unjustified in declaring ANY sort of victory occured."

You are wrong. Simple enough? It is very amusing for people to coment on something that they can only speculate about, and never actually witness anything. can you be any more wrong?

"If you said that "the bikers and i travelled along at 100+ for a while - i was impressed with my scooby" you'd deserve more credit."

I don't want any credit. If I did I would go to the bank. Why would I make the statement above when it would be untrue?

"I overtook a Lambo Diablo on the M1 once, in a Citroen Xantia Diesal. I was doing 90 at the time. So in your words, i beat him and therefore a Xantia is faster than a Diablo?????"

You should really start to believe in your self Jza. What kind of statement is that, apart from being very funy and sarcastic.
Think out of the box, and not just stupid little visions that have come into your head.

"Time to admit you DONT know and put it down to a good experience going quickly with a couple of bikers."

No compromise here Jza, I've told my story. Do you onestly think I would have took it this far if it was made up. You must be nieve?

"Dont start making assumptions cause the facts are if the bikers wanted to (will for life removed) they could have overtaken you easily!! Scoobies just arent fast enough to compete!!! (now im the one making assumptions!!!) Not the ones you mention anyway!!"

How could they have overtaken me easilly, they would have fell off the left hand s bend if they had tryed to keep up. Hello, is there any lights on in your head?


"Well done for a great thread tho - wound up lots of people!!!!!"

LOL Thanks for the compliment, but it wasn't a wind up.

darren f

Have got Evo (Oct 2000) in front of me:
One lap of Croft (high fun factor B-road type of circuit ):
Lancer Evo VI: 1.40.55
Yamaha R1: 1.32.96
Caterham R500: 1.31.53

R1 ridden by Ronnie Smith (British Superstock racer) and cars driven by experienced Evo journos.

The review summary is all about 'horses for courses'- R1 and R500 were loads of fun in the dry, but real hand-fuls on the limit / in the wet.

Conclusion: If you want a ultimate bike / car comparison try like-for-like, e.g. R1 vs R500. To get the best out of either you need (a) Immense skill
(b) A partial labotomy, or ideally
(c) Both

Real world road cars, like the Scooby or Evo are too compromised for inclusion in the comparison.

However, I would suggest that the degree of skill required to control a Scooby / Evo near the limit is considerably less than that required for an R1 or Caterham.

But that is a whole new topic. Discuss......

(and PS: Guys, if you are issuing challenges to each other, just be careful out there).

Stef

Darren.
Don't worry.

FINAL CLOSE......

The fastest outright road vehicle in the world has FOUR wheels.

The fastest accelerating road vehicle in the world has FOUR wheels.

The fastest vehicle around any circuit specifically designed for racing has FOUR wheels.

So, four wheels are faster than two.

Stef.

TKH

Great debate folks and may i say one which will never come to a conclusion because there are too many factors the main ones being

1. the skill of the rider / driver.
2. the road conditions i.e surface.
3. the weather usually crap.

however as a sti 5 driver and a blade rider i would conclude the following.

dry day variety of roads : blade or similar

wet day : scooby by a long shot

track day : scooby with decent brakes

oh yeh one final point nothing beats the sound of a flat out scoob window down with a full system

Regards

Tim

Mike Tuckwood

I'll bet a fiver someone disagrees with your last comment, and that the word "Ducati" crops up.

Mike Tuckwood

Craig, you could easily be right about the braking thing, I seem to thing that whatever the speed they braked from the Porker did it in something like 97 feet, cos they made big play about braking distances as asked on your driving test. (Highway code says circa 245 feet or something like that).

I have the article somewhere and have posted the test results on the BBS before.

Someone else do the maths, my Blackbird had 90lb/ft torque on the dyno (at the back wheel) and weighed around 190Kg (?)

Gerg2

When it comes to the pinacles of different forms of racing...FOUR wheels are quicker than TWO.

Except for desert rallies where the bikes cr@p all over the cars

Low Flyer Maverick

I'd like to react to a few comment:

-"why buy a bike, if I own a scoob?"

Man, man, man... Try to figure out this : you are comming down a hill with your scoob, flat out, you know there is a bend down there, left 70° good surface, u see it now, still flat out, 200 meters u'r reaching 140mph, 150 meters...BRAKE...blocking wheels...playing human ABS...time to skid right to throw it left, u'r controlling the skid now, oops it going to be "borderline", you r now exiting the bend, the right wheels in the grass, bit of oversteering, corrected, flat out again, you'r aliiiiive!
Now can u imagine the adrenaline? Now to reach this level of adrenaline on a bike, just have to wait at the traffic light and then full throttle, wheelie until 4th gear (about 100mph) and flat out untill 180mph...
Thats why we buy bikes! got it

"Nothing is better than the sound of a scoob"


Huuuuh? BUY HEARS !!! and something in between them to get a connection
a R1 flat out? Any Ducati? TVR V8? F355? any V12 (except the mercedes )
Now ok Scoob sound is really really great but...come on!

CraigH

Mike,

In regards to the PC test, I thought it was braking that the Porker won?

Would be interesting now though - R1 v new "911" Turbo.

The Porker would win on top speed, braking maybe?, perhaps lateral G, then get caned everywhere else.

Would've been interesting in the EVO cars v bike test, to have had a club racer in the R500 to see if any difference would be made.

Also, to have Ronnie on the Ducatti like he said..........

With regards to the power to weight ratio....

Doesn't torque come into it as well? I know bikes have massive pwr advantages and need less torque, but compare it to hi powered turboed cars, ie Cossies for instance, and the gap is lower.

Dingy went against a friends ZX7R in his MK2 - his MK2 was fractionally quicker in a straight line when rolling from low speeds on. But I guess you don't come across many headcases who strap the most powerful lump in a *** packet they can

PeteT

I was watching the World Superbikes on Grandstand yesterday and the bikes were much faster than that red car at the back with the flashing lights on the roof. In fact he seemed to give up completely after the first lap.

Tiggs

any of you trackday boys got some times?

on an R1 i can do snetterton 1.15, brands indy .53, goodwood 1.24, brands full 1.40, pembury 1.05, donno (full)1.49

i would guess (big guess!! that this is similar to fast road cars (scoobs) but slower than track cars like catherhams- anyone care to comment?


tiggs

ps- followed an r1 for 20 secs today and thought about this thread as we approached a med/large roundabout that i was going straight over. o thought id catch him at that point as hed slow to do the left.right,left that was needed to go round it- except that he was almost able to straight line it while i chucked the scoob around on the limit- he was long gone and 4 cars ahead by the time i was across it.
suns out- bikes are quicker. i did have the pleasure of the cd on though so one up to me!

CraigH

Mike,

I reckon the the torque per ton of your bike with rider is around 310. 1000kg/Bike + RiderXtorque=around 310lb/ft per tonne.

Dingys Mk2, weighs around 900kg with driver and has 420lb ft which gives it around 460 per tonne

Your power to weight beats him though. Reckon you're around 550 per tonner with rider. His is around 450. Still

Tiggs

sorry to resurect this one but...

some people have suggested that the nurburgring is a good test for any comparisons, having just spoken to a trackday buddy whos been there on an R1 i got an idea of time- hes done 8.15 what do scoobs do???

tiggs

hopefully they dont thrash this time otherwise ive dug this thread out on behalf of bikers only to make things worse for us!!

Stef

Tiggs.
My current best time at The Ring is 8.17 . It would obviously be quicker if I had a P1 or STi.
When I go again next month I will have a new mod, so would expect it to come down a bit anyway.
Decent bikers there who know the track well can get under 8 mins.

Stef.

fast bloke

Stef- Will we see you in the IOM on Mad Sunday. The ring is suited to cars, but bikes are about as quick. Do you think the reversal would be true round the TT circut?
Anyway - this debate is irrelevant. Everyone knows you can't get your knee down in a scooby

Tiggs

8.17! sort it out.


Kidding! glad that fast driver v fast rider is pretty close- guess this discussion is a draw.

tiggs

still 2 secs quicker is quite a bit!!!!

Stef

FB.
Why is The Ring suited to cars??
It's 13 miles long and has every type of bend imaginable, plus several very long straights. I can't see how it favours cars at all. Some parts of it perhaps, but then some parts favour bikes.
I would say it is the 'levelest' playing field there is.
I think I'll leave the IOM to the two-wheeled nutters though!

Stef.

jjones

bikes are faster than cars.

i ride/drive to work on REAL roads not race circuits. REAL roads have real traffic. Traffic doesn't really hassle the bike - i can filter in towns and blast by cars on the open road with very small stretches of clear road (remember bikes are **** quick accelerating in a straight line from most speeds because of the great power to weight ratio )
My £1500 bike does 60 in 3.6 seconds gets about 35mpg and can top 150mph! - so it costs as much as a justy with P1 performance!

johnfelstead

Bit late on this one it seems.

OK, on a real A/B road show me a superbike and i will show it the *** of my westfield, it's no contest at all, even 2 up.

I watched the onboard footage of my easter trip at the ring last night, being held up BADLY 3 times, i lapped in 8 min 22 secs, without the traffic it would have been a sub 8 minute lap no question whatsoever and i hardly know the place yet, done about 16 laps i think.

During my last ring trip not one bike passed me either, which surprised me until i saw the footage, Stef and I really are shifting, especially over the blind crests and bumby corners where a bike would get a bit iffy i would think.

I have only been head to head against superbikes from a standing start a few times and have killed them every time upto 80MPH, maybe they just couldnt ride.

I have lost count of the number of times bikers have said to me "what the **** is in that thing" so they seem quite impressed lol

Against a scoob a bike "should win", against a car like my westie on the road the bike will lose.

PS. My westie is 330BHP/700Kg so 475BHP/tonne, not quite as high a power/weight as an R500 but should be faster round the ring due to the time spent where power is required to overcome drag, which is significant round the nurburgring.

Does this stuff really matter though, it's all about having a fun experience surely.

ptholt

Going back to the sound thing mike tuckwood mentioned above, of all the toys i've owned it would be a very close contest between the following :-

my sti 5 with loud hks full exhaust (ss downpipe)
or
my 996 ducati with twin 55 mill termies.

But the winner would be the duke, sorry folks, nothing sets the hairs going on the back of your neck better. (or sets of car alarms quite a well for that matter).

sasman

you think a lawnmower engine sounds the best? . stop posting on this pointless bloody thread its doing my head in.

Low Flyer Maverick

To Johnfelstead


Ok there's something I dont get here : u say u'r faster than bike on the ring..but you've never made a sub 8' lap???

Decent bike riders laps in 7'30 max...

So u never were faster than a bike on this track and u think u r faster on A/B road? With Traffic?

I missed your point here...

CraigH

Stef,

Why would you be quicker in a P1/STI?

You have better brakes than the pair of them, almost the same speed as a std one, and more highly modified suspension.

So unless you're a cr4p driver, you should be faster

Jza

This whole subjects a laugh init!!

I guarentee one thing....

Someone give me on (my VFR) and a you (in a whatever you like with 4 wheels) a route of approx 100 miles (point A to B) across the UK. Includes A and B roads and some Motorway (M25 would be too unfair on the car).

I will get to point B quicker on the bike than any car.

In the real world (traffic, road works etc) the bike wins.

Jza

johnfelstead

that's if you dont get knocked off by some old granny that didnt see you coming at Mach2. LOL

I'll stick with 4 wheels i think.

And my point Low Flyer Maverick is that in the majority of cases my car will destroy a bike on a decent cross country road unless the rider is very very good and taking big risks (even then it kicks most bikes asses). Cars like mine and bikes that are quick are all about fun, thats my point too.

Tiggs

john,

i agree that cars and bikes should be enjoyed for what they are, different things.

we should also have respect for others and appreciate their own choice of transport and im sure you westfield is lovley (been in normal ones so i assume yours is like that plus loads more)

however....! as you dived into this post and started of by saying you would beat bikes id thought it worth noting:-

1. race tracks, only people who have suggested times on uk tracks have been scobby drivers- they are slower than me on my bike.

you mentioned your times at the ring and my mate on his bike had been quicker. you suggested you encountered delays but in my mates defence he spent much of his time on the back wheel as he had an onboard video and was showing off- he to could have gone sub 8.

2. roads, give me a pizza delivery bike and ,unless you live at the end of the empty road that we will race down, i will get there first (having delivered 2 pizzas on route) when you finally get through traffic and reach the road you better hope theres no traffic there otherwise i might as well stay on the pizza bike.
assuming the road is empty we will both be very, very quick. i would probably beat you by being able to straight line all the s bends that you car boys think will be a big deal for bikes because you have to steer round them.

anyway whoever wins i will be able to supply pizza!

tiggs

all fun!

Stef

Craig.
I meant either with the same handling mods as CK1. Having said that, I've never driven either on a track.

Tiggs.
Add rain to the above equations and then see what happens?
As I've said, it's not even worth comparing the two really, but fun none the less.

Stef.