P1 V M3 (E46)
15 July 2002, 10:10 PM
#62
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Droid42, edited my post btw to say the M3 is also 'more fun' and requires more skill when going really fast and close to it's limit - knew I'd forgot something. Have you got an E36 or E46?
15 July 2002, 11:14 PM
#63
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I know the M3 has more power but it has almost the same torque and weighs much more it should count for smoething..no?
The M3 has 338hp and 269lb-ft and weighs 1570Kg
the P1 is 276hp and 260 lb-ft and weighs only 1283Kg
So the P1 has better torque to weight ratio, and the same power to weight ratio!!
plus when "evo" compared the STI7 to the M3 SMG the STI won (5 stars Vs. 4.5) and "evo" likes the P1 even better...
and one more thin "Autocar" once tested the GT against the M3 and the GT/AWD destroyed the M3 (old shape)
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~sco...s/handling.htm
and I'll take the P1 for 22K and will stay with a classic and the extra money for mods..
[Edited by elondan - 7/15/2002 11:20:35 PM]
The M3 has 338hp and 269lb-ft and weighs 1570Kg
the P1 is 276hp and 260 lb-ft and weighs only 1283Kg
So the P1 has better torque to weight ratio, and the same power to weight ratio!!
plus when "evo" compared the STI7 to the M3 SMG the STI won (5 stars Vs. 4.5) and "evo" likes the P1 even better...
and one more thin "Autocar" once tested the GT against the M3 and the GT/AWD destroyed the M3 (old shape)
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~sco...s/handling.htm
and I'll take the P1 for 22K and will stay with a classic and the extra money for mods..
[Edited by elondan - 7/15/2002 11:20:35 PM]
16 July 2002, 09:32 AM
#64
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I have to say that my old M3 suprrised a lot of Subaru owners in the wet at Palmers
And with the DSC off ummmmmmmmmmmm.
That generally means that I was having to try a little harder than normal.
Tha adrenalin rush when I got out was almost as good as shooting the old love juice.
I think Simon in his P1 was impressed......I hope so anyway cos I was trying fairly hard.
And with the DSC off ummmmmmmmmmmm.
That generally means that I was having to try a little harder than normal.
Tha adrenalin rush when I got out was almost as good as shooting the old love juice.
I think Simon in his P1 was impressed......I hope so anyway cos I was trying fairly hard.
16 July 2002, 10:04 AM
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Steve/Arron,
Box office ratings are v good thanks
Steve - my chin fits in cos it's not in the seat - the seats are v narrow, hence someone with the physique of a vietnamese pot bellied pig (ie you
) won't fit in
P1fanatic - so what components exactly does the WRC car share in common with road going Scoobs? New Age or Classic? If it's a lot it would explain why they're doing so badly.....
Box office ratings are v good thanks
Steve - my chin fits in cos it's not in the seat - the seats are v narrow, hence someone with the physique of a vietnamese pot bellied pig (ie you
) won't fit in P1fanatic - so what components exactly does the WRC car share in common with road going Scoobs? New Age or Classic? If it's a lot it would explain why they're doing so badly.....
16 July 2002, 10:17 AM
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no one answered me as to the weight/power and the torque issues...
I guess there is no end to this conversation:
I would go with "evo", "Top gear" and "Car" (who said they'll prffer a go in an Evo VII than an M3) who like the Impreza better.
I guess there is no end to this conversation:
I would go with "evo", "Top gear" and "Car" (who said they'll prffer a go in an Evo VII than an M3) who like the Impreza better.
16 July 2002, 10:24 AM
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Elondan,
Once rolling it's not really an issue - especially so when you look at drivetrain losses - on paper a P1 may well have a higher torque/ton figure, but once it's translated into what actually makes it to the road, i think you'll find an M3 will be equal or probably higher.
Arron,
Can't help being funny - it's an ugly persons job
Once rolling it's not really an issue - especially so when you look at drivetrain losses - on paper a P1 may well have a higher torque/ton figure, but once it's translated into what actually makes it to the road, i think you'll find an M3 will be equal or probably higher.
Arron,
Can't help being funny - it's an ugly persons job
16 July 2002, 10:34 AM
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I don't visit/post on here very much these days but why am I not suprised to see the same old names singing the same old tunes!
Chins still loves whatever he's driving at the moment better than any of the seventy-two thousand other cars he's owned and will side with any German car in a comparison against a Subaru. Not to antagonise by any chance?
Aaron Bird obviously had a bad experience with P1 once and it will stay with him for ever.
I shouldn't get personal I know (especially as I don't actually know these guys and they are probably super chaps) but this is the impression that comes out of the text. Thing is they are both in a position to wind up Subaru drivers and they succeed every time!
I was about to give my point of view based upon my experience of all the cars mentioned here (bar the Supra) but I won't. Suffice to say that I still thoroughly enjoy my STi4 after nearly 3 years of ownership and that's all that matters.
Just enjoy your drives as at the end of the day there's barely a hair's breadth in any of them up to the legal 70 limit and track days are so much about who can a)drive proficiently on a track b)who thinks they can drive proficiently on a track and c) who is willing to cane their car in pursuit of a "victory".
Neil.
Chins still loves whatever he's driving at the moment better than any of the seventy-two thousand other cars he's owned and will side with any German car in a comparison against a Subaru. Not to antagonise by any chance?
Aaron Bird obviously had a bad experience with P1 once and it will stay with him for ever.
I shouldn't get personal I know (especially as I don't actually know these guys and they are probably super chaps) but this is the impression that comes out of the text. Thing is they are both in a position to wind up Subaru drivers and they succeed every time!
I was about to give my point of view based upon my experience of all the cars mentioned here (bar the Supra) but I won't. Suffice to say that I still thoroughly enjoy my STi4 after nearly 3 years of ownership and that's all that matters.
Just enjoy your drives as at the end of the day there's barely a hair's breadth in any of them up to the legal 70 limit and track days are so much about who can a)drive proficiently on a track b)who thinks they can drive proficiently on a track and c) who is willing to cane their car in pursuit of a "victory".
Neil.
16 July 2002, 10:48 AM
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Neil at £20K the P1 is a bargain.
But not at the price I paid and the money I lost in one year.
READ the STI7 is a very good car.
MUCH better than the P1........sorry.
Define better........wider track which gives a much greater stability and turn in .
Better build quality and nicer interior finnish.
As revvy as the P1.
More bits and bobs as standard.
These are only my opinions you understand having ripped the **** out of a few at Proderive
But not at the price I paid and the money I lost in one year.
READ the STI7 is a very good car.
MUCH better than the P1........sorry.
Define better........wider track which gives a much greater stability and turn in .
Better build quality and nicer interior finnish.
As revvy as the P1.
More bits and bobs as standard.
These are only my opinions you understand having ripped the **** out of a few at Proderive
16 July 2002, 12:23 PM
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So did all you M3 drivers pay cash or get 0% finance then . I brought my scoob cash ie. no finance and very important is calculating how muuch a car actually cost you. People will drive around trying to get 50 quid off a car but then sign a stupid finance package . You may have only lost £500 deprecation in 6 months but you are paying finance on that car and propbably a penalty clause for getting out of the deal. Not problem on my WRX as was half the price of an M3 I didnt have to borrow anything.
As for a 911 not as good as an M3, LOL.
cheers
chrisp
. I brought my scoob cash ie. no finance and very important is calculating how muuch a car actually cost you. People will drive around trying to get 50 quid off a car but then sign a stupid finance package . You may have only lost £500 deprecation in 6 months but you are paying finance on that car and propbably a penalty clause for getting out of the deal. Not problem on my WRX as was half the price of an M3 I didnt have to borrow anything. As for a 911 not as good as an M3, LOL
.cheers
chrisp
16 July 2002, 12:51 PM
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Funny you should mention that. The night before I collected my M3 the salesman was not there but the car was. I was so excited I asked to see it and another guy showed me around it. He obviously thought because I am only quite young (28) that I was obviously going to finance myself to the hilt to afford it.
He then turned to me and said 'once you get your finance sorted you can take it away', in a very condescending manner.
I then asked him 'why, do you not take Switch?'.
So 0% finance for me too then, since you asked !
He then turned to me and said 'once you get your finance sorted you can take it away', in a very condescending manner.
I then asked him 'why, do you not take Switch?'.
So 0% finance for me too then, since you asked !
16 July 2002, 01:08 PM
#78
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do you take switch?
classic!
I wish I had seen that.
I think you will find he was treating you in a condescending manner because he knew you had no class or taste.
after all who would buy a black M3 with a slime green leather interior?
classic!
I wish I had seen that.
I think you will find he was treating you in a condescending manner because he knew you had no class or taste.
after all who would buy a black M3 with a slime green leather interior?
16 July 2002, 01:08 PM
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I wish I was JR then I could do those ranch birds.......
No the R1 bit is my old bike which I smacked head on into a car with and I never changed my username. I am also JJBlade on some other sites
No the R1 bit is my old bike which I smacked head on into a car with and I never changed my username. I am also JJBlade on some other sites
16 July 2002, 01:16 PM
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I had a brand new Saxo VTS at 22 and a bit so that isn't too bad. Unless my career changes though I think the scoob could be the end of the line for a fair while.
16 July 2002, 08:03 PM
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I'm JR - Jonathan Rigby
Chrisp
You have a lot to learn about cars and finance
Most M3 owners will take out balanced payments. What that means in laymens english is that interest is calculated daily basis. So borrow £25,000 and settle 20 days into the agreement and you will pay £25,100.
Using a PCP that figure could of been £25,600. This is due to the front lodding of interest. Yes IM do offer it on sums of £25k or more, but Lombard will do it for less.
Jonathan
Chrisp
You have a lot to learn about cars and finance
Most M3 owners will take out balanced payments. What that means in laymens english is that interest is calculated daily basis. So borrow £25,000 and settle 20 days into the agreement and you will pay £25,100.
Using a PCP that figure could of been £25,600. This is due to the front lodding of interest. Yes IM do offer it on sums of £25k or more, but Lombard will do it for less.
Jonathan
16 July 2002, 08:23 PM
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Most M3 owners will take out balanced payments. What that means in laymens english is that interest is calculated daily basis. So borrow £25,000 and settle 20 days into the agreement and you will pay £25,100.
.Okay I hear yor cry "you could stick the 25K in the bank" but you would have to earn 7.3% NET to get back the cost of finance LOL. Think I will stick to my old toys at least they cost less
.Cheers
ChrisP
16 July 2002, 08:29 PM
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The M3 has 338hp and 269lb-ft and weighs 1570Kg
the P1 is 276hp and 260 lb-ft and weighs only 1283Kg
No ... the M3 has 305bhp and the P1 has 190bhp (at the wheels), therefore the M3 has a significantly higher power to weight ratio.
(Comparing flywheel power figures between 4WD and RWD is just plain silly )
So the P1 has better torque to weight ratio, and the same power to weight ratio!!
No, it hasn't (see above).
Torque to weight ratio is the most utterly pointless measurement ever devised (hint, think about the gearing) so I won't even bother to comment any further on that one.
Ian.
the P1 is 276hp and 260 lb-ft and weighs only 1283Kg
No ... the M3 has 305bhp and the P1 has 190bhp (at the wheels), therefore the M3 has a significantly higher power to weight ratio.
(Comparing flywheel power figures between 4WD and RWD is just plain silly
)So the P1 has better torque to weight ratio, and the same power to weight ratio!!
No, it hasn't (see above).
Torque to weight ratio is the most utterly pointless measurement ever devised (hint, think about the gearing) so I won't even bother to comment any further on that one.
Ian.
16 July 2002, 08:34 PM
#87
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Yeah lets get back to some slattin'
Craig
Reason I ask if your chin fits in, is that at least if I know you can get jimmy hills lovechild billy goats gruff in between the seat and the steering wheel there will be ample room for my beer belly Just making sure before buying you see
Anyway I invested in a corset so you'll have to find something else to slate about me next time we meet you carpet muncher
Steve
Craig
Reason I ask if your chin fits in, is that at least if I know you can get jimmy hills lovechild billy goats gruff in between the seat and the steering wheel there will be ample room for my beer belly
Just making sure before buying you see Anyway I invested in a corset so you'll have to find something else to slate about me next time we meet you carpet muncher
Steve
16 July 2002, 08:40 PM
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I'm financed fairly heavily! I'm happy to accept the 1.5k extra in interest if it means I get a scooby now rather than in about 2 years or more when I've saved up!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, in a straight line few cars can touch the new M3. I played with one in the Saxo and thought I was in reverse and of all the scoobs I've been in only the 'not quite standard' WRX RA would have beaten one! Once they get about 60-70mph they just stride down the road If I had the cash I'd have a P1, M3 and 360 Modena Spider - a car for all conditions
I've said it before and I'll say it again, in a straight line few cars can touch the new M3. I played with one in the Saxo and thought I was in reverse and of all the scoobs I've been in only the 'not quite standard' WRX RA would have beaten one! Once they get about 60-70mph they just stride down the road
If I had the cash I'd have a P1, M3 and 360 Modena Spider - a car for all conditions
16 July 2002, 08:43 PM
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ImportSTI and P1fanatic
I wish you boys spent as much time reading my replies as you do working out your response.
Import, I don't need a Caterham mate i am going to look at a mans track car this Friday (Radical supersport 252 BHP/490kg dry). Oh and a well driven Elise WOULD crucify a Scoob round a track, check out EVO this month. Elise was quicker than EVO7 RS sprint (330 bhp and probably quicker than most Scoobs round a track)I don't own an Elise or anything it was just an example of a modestly powered car with RWD that handles better on a circuit than Scoobies which according to some on here handle better because they are AWD ???
How come you don't see many F1 cars with power to the fronts Now B roads.thats a different mater........
P1 Never sais Bimmer was a better track day car than scoob only that it handles a lot better on a track. I would not buy either if I was after a great track day car. But if i had to choose one or the other for a blast it would have to be the M3.
Cheers
Steve
I wish you boys spent as much time reading my replies as you do working out your response.
Import, I don't need a Caterham mate i am going to look at a mans track car this Friday (Radical supersport 252 BHP/490kg dry). Oh and a well driven Elise WOULD crucify a Scoob round a track, check out EVO this month. Elise was quicker than EVO7 RS sprint (330 bhp and probably quicker than most Scoobs round a track)I don't own an Elise or anything it was just an example of a modestly powered car with RWD that handles better on a circuit than Scoobies which according to some on here handle better because they are AWD ???
How come you don't see many F1 cars with power to the fronts Now B roads.thats a different mater........P1 Never sais Bimmer was a better track day car than scoob only that it handles a lot better on a track. I would not buy either if I was after a great track day car. But if i had to choose one or the other for a blast it would have to be the M3.
Cheers
Steve
16 July 2002, 08:52 PM
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Yep I agree I dont have a problem in financing cars but when people say I had the car a year and only lost 500 it sound impressive (and it is) but if its cost you 2K in finance charges then surely the cost to you is 2.5K. I just wanted to point out that to get £500 worth of depreciation you had to out lay nearly £40K on deposit and finance. The only way to avoid this is to pay cash but unless I had the money freely available , I wouldnt want to pay this sort money. I think we are drifting away from the thread though
, I wouldnt want to pay this sort money. I think we are drifting away from the thread though