Boom

guys if you wanna feel good pop to cambridge theres an old boy in his late 20`s driveing a tasty M3 but sadly he cant, we had a play early hours sunday morning, they may excelerate like f**k but they surely dont handle like a scooby round b-road bends and thats why M3`s are for fare weather ****** cos they dont come out in the rain and they wont play with you in the snow!.
so if you love driveing buy a scooby, anyway iff anybody knows a lad in cambridge with a M3 who was suppriseingly shocked by a scoob sunday morning ask him why was his m8 in the front was gurning when we passed and how much had he dun and how you all feel......
just my 2 pence worth.

Boom

ARRON BIRD

Boom your obviously a well educated man
I`ll play with you down any back road you like in the Cambridge area as this is my patch. You`ll have to wait until October tho as I`m carless untill then.
PS watchout in the rain aswell tho.
I think you might be surprised.
And if you want me to show you how to drive your scoob in the snow aswell give me a call but leave it till winter cos you need snow like

Fat Boy

Adam

We're talking about Craig's blade.

FB

Boom

Arron, was it you sitting in the passenger seat!

ARRON BIRD

Boom is wasnt me at all.
If it had have been you would have been a little red faced.

Boom

dude , have I touched a nerve.

CraigH

LOL,

Arron knows I'm the only Scoob owner that can embarrass him.

Dunno about in driving tho

droid42

the're all different so which one is the empirical one? The cars are pretty similar in performance terms

You're right that they're different but one set of figures (e.g. 0-100) is consistently higher than the other set of figures.

We'll agree to disagree if you like

Ian.

akshay67

"These are just personal experiences I thought I'd bring to the table.

... yes, but we all agree that the P1 will be quicker off the lights. Doh!

Ian. "

Forgot to mention mines an MY99, ITG and SS Backbox.

W9GTR

Havn't been on line for a few days, nice to see this one still running. bout time it all kicked off again thou
I've been down a few B roads in Cambridgeshire in both P1 and M3. I think all you "M3 wouldn't get near me in the twisties" brigade would be left with egg on your faces if you came up against an M3 with a pilot who knows how to drive on board. What I would say is it is a whole lot easier to peddle a P1 fast on a B road than it is an M3 and that should never be forgotten when stating personal experience of whipping tutonic ****.



Steve

ARRON BIRD

Boom it wasnt me. I`ve never seen you and I havnt got a acr at the moment.

droid42

I think all you "M3 wouldn't get near me in the twisties" brigade would be left with egg on your faces if you came up against an M3 with a pilot who knows how to drive on board.

Well said.

I think the P1 at Hullavington yesterday would have had a surprise if he'd come up against jjr1 or SteveD at all during the day. I know that, in about 5 laps, he lost some ground to me but our paths never actually crossed

But of course, as with almost all track situations (are you listening now Fat Boy?) this was down to the drivers and not the cars.

Ian.

Boom

He HE HE, Im glad it`s not just me who`s experienced a meet with a M3 but we realy can give give them a good run for there money, infact half the price!!!!
I will be back in cambridge in a week so Il looking out for more SCOOBY fodder, M3`s me finks t he he.....

Pavlo

Hullavington?

Is this the hullavington where they race karts?

Hmm, raced there once, too many tyres to rub, and the tarmac tore shreads out the tyres. The big (in a kart) loop is fun though.

Paul

droid42

Is this the hullavington where they race karts?

No, the bit of Hullavington airfield where they run trackdays.

I don't tend to go for airfields much nowadays but Hullavington has easily the best airfield surface I've ever experienced.

Ian.

Phil M

BTTT

Peritas

I think Bedford Autodrome is pretty good
The corners are much wider and faster than hullavington
Its also a faster track was getting to 145 - 150 on the long straights.
Its a bit more suited to the M3 and AWD drive cars as it allows for 4 wheel drifts and power slides

My 2p worth
If you are looking for safe and predictable cars then AWD is the way to go
If you want to master your driving skills then RWD is the way to go.
Its takes more skill to drive and RWD quickly that it does a AWD.

P.S
M3 all the way
and not company funded either

ARRON BIRD

Just got back from my hols and thought I`d put this one back on top again

russell hayward

Mines coming in a week or so

I'm sure it will be a far better car than the P1

Better be for that price anyway !!

Russ

neil@wrx

m3 rep car for the M25 i pushed a new m3 to work most days in a 93wrx now got a P1 so move over dick
Neil

Pavlo

given that both cars have about the same power to weight ( know it means less at higher speed...) and that a p1 with a few bolt on mods would exceed the power to weight of a E46 m3, why is there the assumption that the m3 is quicker amoungst the bmw fans?

I don't give a hoot which is faster, but I can't see there being much, if anything in it, even to 100.

Older style m3 possibly a different case, much less lard, if a little down on power.

Isn't it all a bit of a pi55ing contest?

Paul

droid42

given that both cars have about the same power to weight

No, they don't. You're assuming that power to weight (where power is at the flywheel) actually means anything. Power to weight (where power is measured at the driven wheels) is the only thing that matters and the M3 wins that one comfortably.

Road test figures back this up too. The M3 is 0-100 between 11 and 12 secs. The P1 is 0-100 between 12 and 13 secs. Given that the P1 gets a much better start off the line (which means nothing in real-world straight line performance) then that difference is even more significant.

Read the whole of this thread carefully and all will become clear

Ian.

scottdg

Looked in on this thread a while back when it first got going .Since then I've put down my deposit on an E46 M3 cab SMG.

For the last 2 years I've run an MY00 (tek2, ss turboback,itg,hks ss bv so on and so forth). The scoob has/is fantastic and i've driven it hard and soft in all it's wonderfull creations (22b, P1, V4,5 and RB5) in short awesome cars. Why anyone interested in performance motors would want for anything more than a scoob or evo I don't know, or so I thought.

The M3 is a different proposition altogether. Impressions over the last 2 months of test drives and blatting in my mates car are: SERIOUS straight line grunt, magic rear wheel ("you decide") handling in the twisties, bomb proof build quality and loaded with every gadget under the sun. For a day to day (35k miles per year) work horse, summer soft top, come on if you think your hard enough, tech fest, I have to say I think it's pretty much unbeatable.

In short I've started to tire of the motorway drone, the crappy interior, the "bolt on performance". If there is a way forward after owning a kamakazi, mental oriental then I have to say I think the M3 is it. OK, it ain't cheap, but you get what you pay for.

Just my 2pp.

flame suit at the ready.

Scottdg

droid42

Just think of the scenerio you have a P1 and EVO6.5 TME (2 cars worht about 40K) and you do a steaigt swap for a brand new M3.

You're comparing the value of 2 second hand cars with the value of a brand new car!? How does that make sense? The new price of the P1 and Evo 6 was around 30k so it's actually 60k vs. 40k. Not sure I see your point though.

I know I wouldnt, yes M3 are good but I would expect serious performance for 20K more

For 20k more? ... Oh, you're comparing 2nd-hand prices to new prices again. Wakey, wakey ... it's 10k more!

not 1 second to 100 and only in the dry

You've obviously never driven a new M3 then (which explains a lot).

Needs 400+bhp

That's funny, I never thought that power was linked to price before. I had the naive view that sometimes the materials used to build a car and the fittings and fixtures (gadgets, options etc.) added to the price of a car. Clearly I was wrong. So Rolls Royces should be sold for 30k should they?

Ian.

chrisp

If you had 40K you could go and buy both these cars which I would rather do, what cant you understand, you cant buy a new P1 so why should we still compare new prices .


Find me a brand new 2002 P1 for 30K, Wakey wakey they stopped making them in 2000 and BTW I didnt start the thread or the comparison . So should it be a comparision against an MY00 M3 or does that mean no chance for the M3 .

The figures were supplied by you ie 1 second to 100 quicker not a lot is it for the extra

I have been in a 321bhp M3 though

Would you spend 40K for an M3 with 60bhp surely its wise to buy a 318 and add all the opions list then . BTW before RR went German they had a 6750cc engine .



Chris

moses

m3 will kick the p1's *** but a tuned p1 at 330 bhp and torque will pi55 on it

Boom

Why is it only the m3 drivers getting excited here when it all started on a twisty back road where they get there asses kicked!!!!!who cares how much one costs.
M3`s SCOOBY fodder for ever.

Pavlo

Ian/droid whatever,

For your information I have read the entire thread.

I did say ABOUT the same power to weight, and they do.

E46 = 1570kg (1640 with driver) 338Bhp = 206bhp/ton
P1 = 1295kg (1365 with driver) 276Bhp = 202bhp/ton

Ooooh, look at that, they are ABOUT the same the M3 is 2% higher.

And don't even think of saying someone RR tested an M3 blah blah blah, RRs are crap for comparing 2wd and 4wd cars for reasons that have already been touched on in this thread.

I would agree that as the speed increases, and drag becomes more significant, the more powerful car will be at an advantage, period.

I don't know if you have driven a scoob car or derivative, but they are not so easy to get off the line quickly, so I would think that the M3 would fair quite well off the line compared to a P1.

M3 would in my opinion be more than a match for the p1 handling wise, although it's weight would make it suffer in VERY tight twisting roads due to the polar moment of ineratia, and the forces required to make the car change direction. High speed stability/handling would be spot on if my old man's 540 is anything to go by.

But the scoob has a lot of headroom for mods, of course you could blow the m3 and beat it, but the cost would be astromical.

FYI, certain wrx round here, 0-100 9 seconds, total cost £8000ish.

Seems to me there are a bunch of people that need to learn to appreciate cars as a whole, rather than just their own. Get sick of people saying they beat and M3/porsche/ferrari/nova and they wouldn't want one, ugly, poor mans porsche etc.

paul

droid42

I did say ABOUT the same power to weight, and they do.

E46 = 1570kg (1640 with driver) 338Bhp = 206bhp/ton
P1 = 1295kg (1365 with driver) 276Bhp = 202bhp/ton

Ooooh, look at that, they are ABOUT the same the M3 is 2% higher.

And don't even think of saying someone RR tested an M3 blah blah blah, RRs are crap for comparing 2wd and 4wd cars for reasons that have already been touched on in this thread.

I don't particularly care about RR's in this particular case but if you re-read my previous post I said this ....

"No, they don't. You're assuming that power to weight (where power is at the flywheel) actually means anything. Power to weight (where power is measured at the driven wheels) is the only thing that matters and the M3 wins that one comfortably."

You appear to have missed this or ignored it because you continued to post meaningless figures.

It's a fact that 4WD cars have greater transmission losses than 2WD cars so (you need to pay attention now) my point that the flywheel power to weight ratio is meaningless is still correct. Once you consider power at the wheels, the M3 will have an appreciably higher power to weight ratio than the Scoob ... that's all I was saying. If you disagree that ...

a) Power at the wheels is all that matters
b) 4WD have greater transmission losses than 2WD

... then let me know.

Ian.

bayernSTi

Hi everybody. Chris&Kay from Bavaria here. Proud new owers of a San Marino Blue (naturally) STi. One outstanding automobile. We're new at this Subaru Cult and would like to know why do we call our cars "Scoobys"? Ignorant in Germany: Chris&Kay