mutant_matt

...and Pete,And this would have nothing to do with the fact that you are the Chairman of the SIDC now would it

Matt

Makalu

My 2 Cents...

If IM are demonstrating STi's at Trackdays, then do the cars they use get sold REALLY cheaply because - obviously - they would be supplied without warranty BECAUSE they had been on a track day?

Mak.

Jon1T

As Matt suggested the key phrase is 'resulting from' - ie if you 'misuse' your car rallying, racing, on track days or mod your car then according to the wording you cannot expect a claim to be unpheld if a part directly 'affected' fails - which on a race or track day could be almost any drivetrain, suspension or engine component.

IHHO if you change the filter to an induction kit, and the MAF fails IM would be quite right to laugh at you. But if you claim for an corroded alloy wheel then the wheel corrosion doens't relate to replacing the air filter - an IM would have no grounds to refuse your claim according to the wording.

What I would be concerned about is going in for a dealer service, then IM voiding my entire warranty becuase of my full de-cat and filter - this I suspect could be challeged....

Also the fact that Subaru demonstrate their cars on the track is irrelevant from a warranty p-o-v. The cars are road cars made to comply with certain saftey and emissions standards - any car designed with track use in mind wouldn't have cats, airbags etc etc. Just because it's marketed to create a certain image doesn't matter....

Surely it's common sense?

Topjimo

mutant_matt, trust me on this, they know and I already know some one who has been court out by it!!!!!!

Dizzy

Just curious but what are other manufacturers policy on Trackdays?
Mistu - ?
Lotus - ?
TVR - ?
etc, etc

ScoobySnack

Dizzy,

Having owned a TVR from new in the past. I was given a free high speed driving day at an airfield circuit when I purchased it. It was run by TVR themselves and there were dealer representatives present as well.

For 34 months they serviced it and replaced bits under warranty knowing I was on a TVR approved track day each year.

I think they take a responsible attitude to try and teach people buying these cars to handle them with respect. However the servicing on these is 5 times as much so they probably get their money back this way

J

Topjimo

dizzy- "have a crack" is what they all say. It's just IM that are tighter than a nats chuff.


cooommmooonnn on you grey's, cccoooommmmooonnnn you greys

pslewis

I am surprised that a TVR is out of the repairers long enough to do a track day???????????????????? Are they not one of the most unreliable of beasts??

Come on you greys???? HA HA HA HA HA - Try selling one for any money!! Come on you UUUUUUUUUUUUUU KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK' s!!

Cast Iron residuals are the stamping ground of the UK standard Turbo - imagine being stuck with a modified grey import with dodgy history???? would be easier selling a choclate brown 1972 Marina requiring 'some' work - or a beige sierra 1.6 !!!

Pete

dsmith

....or an escort cabriolet...

SCOOBY JON

hi every one who has had a say on this subject
the main thing that has really pissed me of about the whole thing is:-
how subaru uk have done this underhand at the national day!
the person who has done this never said that he had got any thing to do with im just that he had a wrx and was thing of doing similar mods as he didn't like prodrive products!!!
and the biggest thing that gets up my nose is that subaru uk haven't had the comman decence to get in touch with me over the the warrent invalidation!!!!!
i wouldn't mind but i have never put a warrenty claim in and i wouldn't put a claim in if i had created the problem myself??

jon parsons

Jon1T

wasn't that a grey.....oh no it was a 'white' wasn't it?

ScoobySnack

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!! Truth hurts Pete

J

pslewis

dsmith and the rest - sold a long time ago to a man in Bangkok!! really!! he knew class when he saw it (actually, he DIDNT see it at all!!) his agent arrived - paid the dosh and took it away!!?? figure that one out?? anyway - it was VERY saleable thanks!!

I would hate to be trying to sell a grey import!!

Back to the warranty issue - Subaru UK are not doing anything wrong are they?? they are protecting the customers who treat their cars well and abide by the conditions!! I really fail to see what all the fuss is about, I dont want to have to pay more for my car to cover the fact that someone, somewhere, thinks its reasonable to race around a track and modify their cars THEN expect the resulting damage to be paid for by ME!!!

Pete

[Edited by pslewis - 7/22/2002 5:50:50 PM]

Blue

pslewis - UK car cast iron residuals ?? I heard a story of an MY99 being bought by a dealer recently for £7500 !!!!

We all live and learn - I learnt to buy in Belgium, SAVE 6K AND GET A 3 YR WARRANTY......

pslewis

Blue - maybe £7500, maybe not - but an import would therefore be about £3500!!!!

You get my drift?? They aint wanted man - whatever you say!

Pete

camk

Car manufacturers taking pictures at Driving club track day out, all very DSS snooper. Magnificent, what a great advert for Euro Imports. Given the holier than thou attitude to IM by many of Scoobnet users its likely to be case of shooting ones self in the foot by IM as regards this little group of potential customers. However on a more strategic sense its possibly an attempt to change customer base by alienating the track and mod brigade.
This time next year you'll all be driving Evo's and Nova's

Regards
Cammy

Blue

pslewis - I tend to think the 'maybe not' option to be honest, but there is no way on this earth my car is worth 6k or even 2k less than yours (providing yours is an MY00 ).

Seems like warranty issue is a minefield if you do a track day, but does that excuse the underhand way it was done ?? Some clear modification rules would help from IM, afterall, you may never have had your car on a track, but if it has a back box or ITG technically your warranty is now void!

For 6k you can do a lot of 'warranty' work on a car, mine has run without a problem for all its 18 month life - so I'm quids in (so far touch wood!)

Phil Harrison

Dave T-S

Speaking as the 4th oldest on the 'how old are scoobynetters?' thread, I'd say my lifetime experience is Never ask a question unless you're sure you're going to get the answer you want. In this case, you're not sure, (tho' I'd take money on PSLewis's expected reply): and if you get the wrong answer - well, it's then on the record innit?

So tempting as it might be, I say - don't do it. Although there's assertion of one poster in this thread having had a warranty claim claim refused for trackday use, we still don't KNOW what IM were doing at Donno, and I don't think we have evidence of a directly consequential voiding of warranty for (unmodded) trackday use.

IMHO Let sleeping dogs lie until any pending court cases are resolved

Cheers

Phil
Edited for a control-character

[Edited by Phil Harrison - 7/22/2002 6:28:31 PM]

mutant_matt

TopjimoHave you got any details? At least let us know what model? MY01 WRX/STi Type UK 02?

I know that the rear lambda sensor will record a fault if you de-cat the car but this is no different to any of the other fault codes. The rear sensor can be fooled quite easily (so that no fault is ever reported) and can be wiped with an ECU reset. I presume though that you're talking about something else?

Mr Lewis,You seem to be lumping track use and mods in the same boat. The warranty doesn't exclude track use whereas it does mods - and even then, I suggest that they would have to prove that the part failiure in question was related to a mod that had been done.Are you sure? Have you looked at the prices of the cars recently? And just to clear up another point, EU sourced cars (not Greys) have better residuals - I know this becuase I bought my UK MY00 for £7000 less than the UK price and sold it for £1000 less than the UK equivalents (sp?).

Matt

pslewis

MY00 as mine

Put 2 cars next to each other:- identical in EVERYTHING other than one is a EU Import.

Car 1 = £14995 UK spec and supplied
Car 2 = £13995 EU Import

£1000 for all the Stigma of a Import?? nah, I would want to see a MUCH bigger difference than that to get me into the Import!!

You KNOW its going to be tough to shift later on - I would need at least £5000 in my pocket to carry the embarrassment of driving an Import!!! Its second only to driving a LADA!!!

Pete

Dave T-S

Phil Harrison
Exactly my point. I know exactly what IM's reaction will be because I had extensive correspondence with Ed Swatman over removing side airbags from a MY01. They wrote me a recorded delivery letter absolving themselves of all liability.

The more this is pushed with IM, the more things will be tightened up and ALL owners will suffer.

Jon
I do have sympathy with IM on this point in principle, but on the other hand I do agree totally that the way you were treated is NOT the way to go about it. You should have been told openly and personally not in an underhand way via dealers.

johnfelstead

pete, you are becoming a very boring old fart in your old age. Arguing for arguings sake isnt big and it isnt clever. I would have thought being 73 you would have worked that one out by now.

John, STi5 TypeRA V-Limited with gold wheels "grey" import owner and very happy with it. I bet my residuals make yours look silly! It's a damn site better spec than your UK car too.

pslewis

John, at my age you realise that it IS big and it IS clever

Especially when you learn how to spell properly - as you cannot yet!! - site?? or sight?? cant quite figure out if you are talking building or eyes??

I didnt quite have you down as a 'Grey Import' owner - thought you had more sense than that!!

Big Old Pete



[Edited by pslewis - 7/22/2002 9:01:54 PM]

johnfelstead

at least i didnt need two attempts to get my message accross.

chrisp

Pete I was offered 17K as a part ex recently for my dodgy MY00 grey import thats about 4K more than an MY00 UK is worth trade and it only cost me 1K more BRAND new than a new MY00 UK. Did I mention it has 276+bhp and 260+lb/ft of torque, alcantara seats, limited edition status and air con as well . Now who has the cast iron residuals and the better deal and the bigger smile .

mutant_matt

Pete,You've proven my point. In my case the UK price for my car was £26,000 with the added on extras which I paid about £18,500 from Europe with all expenses taken into account. I sold my car 18 months later (which was easy in itself, I had many interested people) for £14,200. Similar UK cars were going for around £15-£15,500 which means that the UK car had depreciated by about £10-£11,000 whilst mine had by £4,300.

Dave,

I agree with you but going by the letter of the warranty, they have to prove misuse (on the track) led to failure (I don't fancy their chances of that ) and that any mods in question were the cause of a failure. But like you said, they will probably change it so that any non approved part fitted will void the whole warranty (dodgy legal grounds?) and any kind of private road performance/driver training events undertaken will also void it.

Matt

Topjimo

Well Mr P.Lewis, If I was ever to sell my 22b, I would not be to worried about the return from it, because "I can;t help but notice that I must earn considrably more than yo"

Oh and don't forget that greys are cheeper to buy new, so they will be cheeper second had

Mutant_matt, any car made in japan after the start of MY02, has this built in, and the data is stored (you are correct "as a fault code", so there is no way to remove it. The only way would be to have a spare ECU and swap it for warrenty claims The new car (i'm told) can also store a date with the fault!

boultsy

Topjimo, re fault code. I know nothig about ECU's (yet) but theoretically if it's stored there must be a way of removing it, unless it's got an eprom.

[Edited by boultsy - 7/23/2002 10:26:10 AM]

Topjimo

Umm, I just know what I have been told, from a reliable source, but it is stored in a different way to the old car.

You are right, as it should be removable, but what a hassel.

boultsy

I did say theorecically

Your reliable source wasn't a dealer was it.