Jolly Green Monster 2

I am beginning to wonder how much this cleaning the internals that optimax is reported to do effects power..

Was running ESSO SUL and switched to Optimax and noticed an increase in power and better MPG...

Have used Esso SUL again a few tanks and noticed no decrease..
swap back to Optimax and notice no increase..

Could it be because Optimax has cleaned all the crap out of my engine.. as it is a UK standard car and therefore not going to gain much on the extra RON I am beginning to think that in my car the extra RON or not makes no difference... also worried about any damage this cleaning properties might have in the long term..

Obviously this is a different matter to people running imports as any RON you can get above 95 is a bonus..

Someone tell me how much does SUL decay over time?

JGM

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

When you store a car you are recommended to keep the tank full for just that reason, as well as corrosion resistance in some cases.

I wonder if the lab used the Karl Fischer Coulermetric Titration method to determine the fuels content?

F

DIXIE

Hi peps I work for an oil company & i asked the boys in the lab about this & was told that all gasoline goes stale in the tank due to light ends evaporating off. This is generaly butaine so maybe optimax uses more butaine when it is blended.


Dixie.

slippyr4

Do the sums/work out the logic. If you fill your tank to the top, and run it to empty, the fuel will be exposed to less air than filling your tank halfway then running to empty twice.

I, personally, am not particularly bothered about whether my fuel is 97 or 98 octane. I don't check with the garage to see if the fuel is fresh or not.

But if you want to take the **** out of me for giving information that you patently obviously don't understand, then accept the fact that I think you're a tosser.

Gez

Edmax, i dont know the exact conditions that the experiment was carried out under as i was not present but IM SURE they were a lot better than tests carried out by an enthusiast in the shed as he done the tests in his office labs which house some state of the art equipment.
The fuel was from a garage in the Hertfordshire region where quite a few Sccoby/Evo/Skyline owners go so im sure the fuel was not in the tanks for a long time. Whether or not it was a bad batch of fuel , i dont know as many garages get the odd batch from time to time.
As he is taking three weeks of work soon, i will push him to carry out tests over a long period of time both on Optimax, Super Unleaded as well as Octane Boosters.
One test which i know he wanted to carry out was to test the ron of fuels with octane booster mixed in and observe their decay rate.
I personally appreciate what he has done for me, how others whish to regard this information is entirely up to them.

Regards

Gez

MattW

Now now girls


What slippyr4 is trying to get across is that modern tanks are pressure sealed. As you fill up, the air is forced out whereas petrol is replaced by a vacuum as it is used.

Put very simply filling the tank halfway means half the air in the tank has not been forced out and replaced by petrol.

Next time you fill up, check the hissing noise as you unscrew your cap. (ooo er missus)

Jolly Green Monster 2

But how do we know it has anything to do with air mixing with the fuel?

If evapourisation of part of the fuel is occurring surely it will evapourate into the vacum of the tank as vapour and the petrol get consumed with out it anyway. So it might be better to use small amounts of fuel at a time so it ages less.. rather than mixes with air less? just a thought?

I am lucky if a full tank lasts more than 4days anyway..


JGM

PS: What is the point in arguing about it?

Scoobydick

Surely if it deteriorated 2 RONs in 5 days then big stars such as Jeremy clarkson and Michael Shumacher would not be endorsing it as they have their reputations to think of

carl

Luckily for me, the fuel never stays in my Scoob for more than two days

Gordo

Slippy, you're making my day! haha

"Do the sums/work out the logic. If you fill your tank to the top, and run it to empty, the fuel will be exposed to less air than filling your tank halfway then running to empty twice."

marvellous - but, of course, the actual surface area exposed remains pretty constant and, given that the tank is ventilated, therefore the volume of air is much less relevant. I stand by the fact it's going to make sod all difference to the performance of your car by filling as you suggest (especially given that the fuel has been standing in ventilated tanks for days/weeks before you get it).

"But if you want to take the **** out of me for giving information that you patently obviously don't understand, then accept the fact that I think you're a tosser"

I wasn't taking the **** (I thought you were kidding). Best get back to school before the teachers spot you're missing, eh?

Gordo

carl

Of course filling up when half empty will make a difference to your car's performance. On average, it will weigh more (and the weight of the fuel is about the same as a person).

Jolly Green Monster 2

Carl,

Felt sure you were going to say that you get Optimax Top Trumps so it is worth the risk etc....

I would assume with the pay cheques that Jeremy and Michael are getting they would have taken Shells word for it.. and despite all this it does give an imporvement in a lot of cars... whether it be because of the RON or something else... I wonder still about the cleaning properties..

JGM

InsBro

Hmmmm

Shell Say:
How is Shell Optimax different to other unleaded petrols?

Shell Optimax is completely new and created specifically for UK motorists who want to get the most from their car and from driving
It has the highest octane rating of any petrol in the UK which enables advanced modern design engines to work more efficiently and deliver more power
It is free of the heavy constituents which are found in other petrols and which leave dirty residue in the engine
It also removes these performance sapping deposits from the airways of the engine, so it cleans your engine as you drive
It protects your engine better than any other unleaded petrol

and,

How can you prove that Shell Optimax makes a vehicle more responsive?

Shell Optimax was formulated and tested at Shell's world leading research laboratories at the Cheshire Innovations Park. We have extensive engine test data showing that Optimax will enhance engine performance, improve responsiveness and give superior acceleration.

This has been rigorously tested and benchmarked against other petrols currently available in the UK.

Shell Optimax can help you manoeuvre safely by delivering a smooth burst of power, just when you need it most - when you're overtaking on a motorway

I would ignore any tests that people are not prepared to go public with!!

Jeremy

EdMax

Slippyr4,
Quote " benzene based eg Toluene - evaporate much quicker than base petrolium " er Wrong - the likes of toluene has a higher initial boiling point than most base products.

Dixie,
It is also wrong to say their's more butane present.
The only time butane is increased (normal ULG95)- during the winter months - due to better firing on start up.
This is common to all oil companies.

Floyd,
I think you were right !!!

cheers
Max

SimonEvoExtreme

Interesting debate.

First, with all due repects to the person doing the testing, the test as described is fundementaly flawed! Without a comparison or control batch of fuel, any assumptions made are irrelivent. Amongst other things, you have no way of knowing if the equipment was correctly calibrated or if there was contamination plus 101 different variables.

Next, I don't know if anybody has heard of the Trading Standards Office. This petrol has been around too long for it not to have come to light, because they do test petrol, not least to check petrol station operators aren't filling the SUL tanks with UL and charging the customer for SUL.

As for the performance gains, these have been shown by various independent tester. For instance, Evo ran a feature on this recently and showed Optimax performed. Xtreme Autos (Ralliart UK) have also back to back tested it on a RR and showed 4 and 5 bhp gains on different cars.

Finally, Evo used an ediscope to look at the claims of engine cleaning and on all the cars they tested, found significant improvements.

If you chose not to believe in Optimax, that is your choice. I will keep using it.

Dave T-S

Just read this thread for the first time, and all I can say is, what a crock of sh1te!

So someone analyses some Optimax in their lunch hour (or if they didn't do it officially they were stealing their firm's time) and all of a sudden all of Shell's RON claims are tosh.

Yeah, right.....lies, damn lies, and Scoobynet, eh

Gez

Dave T-S, take it as you like! If your read the thread properly, the test was conducted over a five day period AND NOT IN COMPANY TIME! As i said before the test was carried out at a petrochem's lab where the equipment is very up to date and is used to measure ron on a frequent basis. What i cant guarantee is whether or not the fuel was contaminated or a bad batch from shell. I havent told anyone to stop using the stuff, im merely passing on results in good faith. What i have stated is that this particular sample was NOT over 98 ron and degraded over a period of five days. This is not to say that another batch is going to reveal the same results. By all means if you or anyone is happy with Optimax DONT stop using it.

Gez

adamm

Can one post up that link to the other BBS/thread where a chap called Mycroft did the analysis + some other important things where said like "Shell don't claim it to be 97/98 or 100 RON - only 95+additives" - primarily as it goes off and reverts to a lower octane over time (days)!!

nom

Just one thing to remember here - Shell describes Optimax as 'enhanced 95RON' on all official documents - just go in & ask to look at the delivery form at the petrol station. So the 'Trading Standard Office' (& customs/excise, etc.) are happy.
On the other hand, it may well be the case that ALL SUL petrols are described as such. So that doesn't really get us anywhere

nom

Just read the one posted at the same time as mine - this is the link to the very long thread.
Bring coffee.

adamm

SNAP - but it's an interesting read huh !

Pavlo

Hmm, was a longer post, but it was twaddle.....

One of the problems with fuel, is water absorbtion, many additives are hydroscopic, they draw moisture out the air, so keeping petrol in a sealed container, with dry gas filling the void will prevent most deteriation, just how racing fuel is kept.

Petrol forecourts store fuel pretty well, but who knows what happened to the fuel that was on test for 5 days.

Paul

Gez

Mycroft kinda answers a few of my question! He quotes that Optimax starts out as 95ron, therefore i assume that if the test my friend conducted continued for a few more days then maybe the petrol would have stabalised at approx 95RON. This raises interesting questions, would SUL behave in the same way as Optimax (ie decay over time)? Does it start out as UL? Is their a basic ron value for petrol as it starts life or is it the refining process that determines the RON? Is there any TRUE 97RON in England? One thing that baffles me is why customs would get uptight over the petrol being 98ron?? London prices of Optimax are the same as SUL and in some cases a little more?

[Edited by Gez - 7/26/2002 2:13:06 PM]

Mycroft

Hi, I have been doing a lot of work on this for the LSOC and the Skyline site, good to see you too are looking at this. been working on this for about 6 months.

sillysi

Hi Mycroft,

Keep up the good work.

Si.

WREXY

I have written this a few times before and I'll write it again.

Optimax in the UK could very well be 95 RON.

Optimax came to Greece in a different name called V power. People here were saying that it is 95 RON fuel with enhancements. It is a little cheaper than SUL just like in the UK and the advertisements are the same too, such as that familiar fish and Ferrari. I used to argue with people here that it is 98 RON cos of the price difference which coincides with the UK and that the advertisements are the same as the UK. I then rang Shell myself and to my surprise they said that it was 95 RON enhanced fuel but that it was better than super plus.

Now one month ago a new V power was introduced here, by the name of V power racing 99+ fuel. This fuel is almost double the price of Super Unleaded and is rated at 99.4 RON. The advertisement for this fuel shows a golden horse running in golden water with the sound of the Ferrari F1 engine revving in the background. So now we have two Optimax, (V power), fuels. We have V power 95 and V power racing 99+

Would it be possible that you guys have our first V power (Optimax) and perhaps you will soon be getting Optimax racing 99+?

Judging by what I'm reading here, you probably have the plain Optimax. I could be wrong, but that's what happened here.

Cheers,

Wrexy.

[Edited by WREXY - 7/27/2002 2:00:34 AM]