A Message To RC Developments/Warrender (i did warn you)
08 August 2002, 04:40 PM
#61
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You know what the problem here is?
The people talking about Ants engine, ie Ants, Steve Hill and RC have not clearly stated what it is they did to the engine. There is a misunderstanding in the word "rebuild". RC call rebuild the replacement of a piston. Ants thought they meant rebuild his engine to new and told Steve Hill so.
Steve Hill seem to ignore how A'PEXi boost (AVC-R) and fuel (S-AFC)controllers work, which is understandable, given they build rally cars.
In addition to that, the car was bought from Warrenders, not RC, but with an RC tuning "stage". This just adds to the confusion.
I am no engine expert, but forcing the fuel in with high base fuel pressure also gives my car fuel smell. I will find out what the engine looks like inside soon (in 3 weeks).
IMHO, taking this matter to court is not the solution. It will only be good for the solicitors, not for Ants, not for RC and not for us.
RC seem more than willing to help fix the car, why wouldnt you accept that?
The only viable solution is to replace the engine internals with forged high strength items that will take the extra strain, such as used by Xtreme Autos (formerly Ralliart UK) and to run high boost with a correctly mapped ECU and the right fuel pressure. And a Motec is not the only solution, there are Gems, Link, Haltech, A'PEXi ECUs (this latter is available from RC).
The people talking about Ants engine, ie Ants, Steve Hill and RC have not clearly stated what it is they did to the engine. There is a misunderstanding in the word "rebuild". RC call rebuild the replacement of a piston. Ants thought they meant rebuild his engine to new and told Steve Hill so.
Steve Hill seem to ignore how A'PEXi boost (AVC-R) and fuel (S-AFC)controllers work, which is understandable, given they build rally cars.
In addition to that, the car was bought from Warrenders, not RC, but with an RC tuning "stage". This just adds to the confusion.
I am no engine expert, but forcing the fuel in with high base fuel pressure also gives my car fuel smell. I will find out what the engine looks like inside soon (in 3 weeks).
IMHO, taking this matter to court is not the solution. It will only be good for the solicitors, not for Ants, not for RC and not for us.
RC seem more than willing to help fix the car, why wouldnt you accept that?
The only viable solution is to replace the engine internals with forged high strength items that will take the extra strain, such as used by Xtreme Autos (formerly Ralliart UK) and to run high boost with a correctly mapped ECU and the right fuel pressure. And a Motec is not the only solution, there are Gems, Link, Haltech, A'PEXi ECUs (this latter is available from RC).
08 August 2002, 05:18 PM
#62
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I think the only people who could sort this out are Mitsubishi....
ok the rac and aa can look at the car but to be honest, how many evo's do the see broken down?
Mitsubishi on the other hand do have experts who work on these engines, and they did design it in the first place so should be capable of knowing what its capable of (theoretically of course
)
(i dont think anyone could say that mitsubishi are their competitors as they produce the car in the first place)
Tony
ok the rac and aa can look at the car but to be honest, how many evo's do the see broken down?
Mitsubishi on the other hand do have experts who work on these engines, and they did design it in the first place so should be capable of knowing what its capable of (theoretically of course
)(i dont think anyone could say that mitsubishi are their competitors as they produce the car in the first place
)Tony
08 August 2002, 05:53 PM
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Claudius...
I'm confused.
Sometimes you behave like a total nuisance (like in the flipped Evo thread, I bet you have never spoken to Gilles Stievenart nor his son - who isn't really an instructor BTW) and in this one you make perfect sense.
Time to deal with some "online issues" or mood swings ?
I *totally* agree with you BTW that this issue shouldn't be taken to court, provided all parties want to see a solution.
In any case, I'm glad I'm not the judge that will have to rule "x.xx bar is OK on an EvoX, w.ww bar is too much"...
Ants, in a way RC are saying they want to solve your problem (in a disquised way). Take them up on it, you have nothing to lose. After that, you can still make the lawyers very rich etc.
I'm confused.
Sometimes you behave like a total nuisance (like in the flipped Evo thread, I bet you have never spoken to Gilles Stievenart nor his son - who isn't really an instructor BTW) and in this one you make perfect sense.
Time to deal with some "online issues" or mood swings ?
I *totally* agree with you BTW that this issue shouldn't be taken to court, provided all parties want to see a solution.
In any case, I'm glad I'm not the judge that will have to rule "x.xx bar is OK on an EvoX, w.ww bar is too much"...
Ants, in a way RC are saying they want to solve your problem (in a disquised way). Take them up on it, you have nothing to lose. After that, you can still make the lawyers very rich etc.
08 August 2002, 07:00 PM
#65
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Thanks Evil 
I never said I knew the guy, I said a friend of mine met him at the circuit he crashed a few weeks later and just said what he told me. I enjoyed watching him drive the Evo 7 there a lot That's all
As far as Ants' car is concerned, I agree with what you say
Take care
Claudius
I never said I knew the guy, I said a friend of mine met him at the circuit he crashed a few weeks later and just said what he told me.
I enjoyed watching him drive the Evo 7 there a lot That's all As far as Ants' car is concerned, I agree with what you say
Take care
Claudius
08 August 2002, 07:25 PM
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Spud
I will come back to the MLR if Darin answers my email regarding Andy F RSX's moderation in a manner that satisfies me
BTW, regarding your car, it will make what RC say if it can hold a lot of boost high up in the rev range. If the boost drop a little above 5500 / 6000 rpms, then you wont achieve the figure. But that doesnt mean you car doesnt go fast. Peak power is pretty much irrelevant: if you have more mid range boost than someone holding a lot high up, you will still accelerate better.
How much boost the engine can hold high up in the rev range depends on the turbo itself, the actuator and the selenoid that comes with your AVC-R or Power FC boost module (whichever you have). All these are things that can be easily modified at a very reasonable cost. I wish you all the best Claudius
I will come back to the MLR if Darin answers my email regarding Andy F RSX's moderation in a manner that satisfies me
BTW, regarding your car, it will make what RC say if it can hold a lot of boost high up in the rev range. If the boost drop a little above 5500 / 6000 rpms, then you wont achieve the figure. But that doesnt mean you car doesnt go fast. Peak power is pretty much irrelevant: if you have more mid range boost than someone holding a lot high up, you will still accelerate better.
How much boost the engine can hold high up in the rev range depends on the turbo itself, the actuator and the selenoid that comes with your AVC-R or Power FC boost module (whichever you have). All these are things that can be easily modified at a very reasonable cost. I wish you all the best
Claudius
08 August 2002, 09:03 PM
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For all your infomation, I have sent a fax to Clive at RC to re-open negotiations - so I am currently waiting for their reply. I believe that this seems to be the most sensible thing to do at the moment.
09 August 2002, 12:09 AM
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Claudius,
What i meant is that all the tolerences of these engines are known to Mitsubishi personel who designed it, if thats so then there will be limits to what the engine is capable of doing in its standard form, these limits would have been tested initially until a point was found where the engine would run perfectly without failure, this would have been tried on several engines and then reduced to run at a certain horsepower.
The point is, is that Mitsubishi know exactly what this engine can do, therefore they are the best people to talk to
Tony
What i meant is that all the tolerences of these engines are known to Mitsubishi personel who designed it, if thats so then there will be limits to what the engine is capable of doing in its standard form, these limits would have been tested initially until a point was found where the engine would run perfectly without failure, this would have been tried on several engines and then reduced to run at a certain horsepower.
The point is, is that Mitsubishi know exactly what this engine can do, therefore they are the best people to talk to
Tony
09 August 2002, 12:14 PM
#73
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Tony
I'm not so sure about that. Although Mitsubishi certainly know when the engine will fail, they will run them at less boost and with milder ignition settings etc to achieve longer mileages. But they certainly know better than the tuners out there. But that doesnt mean that they make faster cars than the tuners...
I'm not so sure about that. Although Mitsubishi certainly know when the engine will fail, they will run them at less boost and with milder ignition settings etc to achieve longer mileages. But they certainly know better than the tuners out there. But that doesnt mean that they make faster cars than the tuners...
13 August 2002, 10:30 PM
#74
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Just to keep everyone up-to-date .....
Including you Claude (as if you didn't know!!)
http://www.lancerregister.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10881
As you can see it has now been resolved
Including you Claude (as if you didn't know!!)
http://www.lancerregister.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10881
As you can see it has now been resolved
14 August 2002, 12:56 AM
#76
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To make it clickable
http://www.lancerregister.com/bbs/sh...threadid=10881
Glad things are now working out
http://www.lancerregister.com/bbs/sh...threadid=10881
Glad things are now working out
17 August 2002, 04:37 PM
#77
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Following some heavy flaming, RC took a customers 380hp car to Power engineering today the results can be seen here :-
RC Developments 380hp car at PE today
[Edited by ptholt - 8/17/2002 4:38:59 PM]
RC Developments 380hp car at PE today
[Edited by ptholt - 8/17/2002 4:38:59 PM]
17 August 2002, 05:19 PM
#78
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That PE "Power Plot" does not have a date, does not have a boost curve and it says "owner: R.C. DEV."
As a consequence, judging from here, it isnt worth anything.
What tells me that:
it IS Supdgun's car
it was done yesterday
they were not running more boost
they were not cheating otherwise (scramble function, timing, etc.)
that the outside temp was what they say
that they were not running WS continously
etc.
As a consequence, judging from here, it isnt worth anything.
What tells me that:
it IS Supdgun's car
it was done yesterday
they were not running more boost
they were not cheating otherwise (scramble function, timing, etc.)
that the outside temp was what they say
that they were not running WS continously
etc.
17 August 2002, 05:31 PM
#79
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Claudius, what are you like.
I have known Spudgun for quite some time and i think i can just about tell its his car I didn't see a second black evo6 hiding round the corner running larger turbos, stronger internals, the same retrim and the same number plate 
Having watched it perform 3 runs today in MUCH hotter temps than 630pm approx yesterday evening im pretty confident that it would crack 400 on a cold enough day. Touching just over 30 on my bmw's temp gauge are not ideal temps for rolling roads, just ask my poor friend in the sti5
As for some of your other points, it says RC dev as the owner, as spudgun was not present as he had to work, RC had booked the rollers so as far as PE was concerned it was there car, PE didnt even know the owners name.
As for the rest of your points, you've been watching the x files to much mate.
As im only a scoob owner, try talking to antsevo who was there or leggy pete from the mlr or tbmeech from scoobynet, all were present, all were VERY impressed.
ps have videod the runs as well if you want to check for yourself its his car on the rollers I just need somewhere to host them.
[Edited by ptholt - 8/17/2002 5:37:44 PM]
I have known Spudgun for quite some time and i think i can just about tell its his car
I didn't see a second black evo6 hiding round the corner running larger turbos, stronger internals, the same retrim and the same number plate Having watched it perform 3 runs today in MUCH hotter temps than 630pm approx yesterday evening im pretty confident that it would crack 400 on a cold enough day. Touching just over 30 on my bmw's temp gauge are not ideal temps for rolling roads, just ask my poor friend in the sti5
As for some of your other points, it says RC dev as the owner, as spudgun was not present as he had to work, RC had booked the rollers so as far as PE was concerned it was there car, PE didnt even know the owners name.
As for the rest of your points, you've been watching the x files to much mate.
As im only a scoob owner, try talking to antsevo who was there or leggy pete from the mlr or tbmeech from scoobynet, all were present, all were VERY impressed.
ps have videod the runs as well if you want to check for yourself its his car on the rollers
I just need somewhere to host them.[Edited by ptholt - 8/17/2002 5:37:44 PM]
17 August 2002, 06:03 PM
#80
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Claudius, what are you like.
I have known Spudgun for quite some time and i think i can just about tell its his car
The graph you posted says 387bhp and has no date and you say it was supposedly done last night.
Having watched it perform 3 runs today in MUCH hotter temps than 630pm approx yesterday evening im pretty confident that it would crack 400 on a cold enough day.
As for some of your other points, it says RC dev as the owner, as spudgun was not present as he had to work, RC had booked the rollers so as far as PE was concerned it was there car, PE didnt even know the owners name.
And just to prove that I'm a dumbass: Why did they go the day before and what would have happened if it had made less the day before?
As for the rest of your points, you've been watching the x files to much mate.
) and that therefore we are ASSUMING that they ran that very same setup, but do not know for sure.
As im only a scoob owner
I have videod the runs as well if you want to check for yourself its his car on the rollers I just need somewhere to host them.
17 August 2002, 06:16 PM
#81
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I cant answer the boost/lambda questions as i havent got a clue, but every graph i've from pe looks like the one i posted, i didnt know there were other options available.
My assumption on the heat being an issue where based on what should have been a 300hp sti5 only managing 286 due to the temps, it would seem 'reasonable' to assume an evo would also suffer power loss from hot temps.
My assumption on the heat being an issue where based on what should have been a 300hp sti5 only managing 286 due to the temps, it would seem 'reasonable' to assume an evo would also suffer power loss from hot temps.
17 August 2002, 06:32 PM
#82
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I cant answer the boost/lambda questions as i havent got a clue, but every graph i've from pe looks like the one i posted, i didnt know there were other options available.
The reason I'm asking this is obviously that you get more power if you run more boost and if you run the car leaner. RC s claim is 380 bhp with 1.6 bars or boost. Let me state my point extremely clearly:
I WANT PROOF THAT THIS POWER PLOT WAS OBTAINED AT 1.6 BARS BOOST
Thanks for listening
17 August 2002, 08:34 PM
#83
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claudius
there was no cheating and that is the TRUTH
i took my car to Gforce on thursday, it made 298bhp at the wheels. i certainly dont know how to tweek a car to get a good figure
RC have more than proved their point to everyone.they are a top outfit, and i will continue to use them for some time to come
so well done RC, a big thank you and thumbs up
there was no cheating and that is the TRUTH
i took my car to Gforce on thursday
, it made 298bhp at the wheels. i certainly dont know how to tweek a car to get a good figureRC have more than proved their point to everyone.they are a top outfit, and i will continue to use them for some time to come
so well done RC, a big thank you and thumbs up
17 August 2002, 09:31 PM
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claudius
there was no cheating and that is the TRUTH
there was no cheating and that is the TRUTH
claudius
i took my car to Gforce on thursday, it made 298bhp at the wheels.
i took my car to Gforce on thursday, it made 298bhp at the wheels.
That's 16 bhp more than Lee with a Sports ECU and BC
17 August 2002, 09:43 PM
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claudius
1.6 bar held, 1.78 peak. nothing was altered, i will post gforce garphs as soon as i can, ok?
claudius...you have been watching the xfiles too much. there is no conspiracy
1.6 bar held, 1.78 peak. nothing was altered, i will post gforce garphs as soon as i can, ok?
claudius...you have been watching the xfiles too much. there is no conspiracy
17 August 2002, 10:14 PM
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Claude, you have got to admit, those figures at G-Force are very good, and very clever of leigh to take it there first.
But like you, I would like to see the boost curve, but as Leigh was the one that rolled it, the boost sounds perfectly ok to me.
At least it did no go to 1.86bar !!!!
But like you, I would like to see the boost curve, but as Leigh was the one that rolled it, the boost sounds perfectly ok to me.
At least it did no go to 1.86bar !!!!