kevin stanton

phil

keep us posted on what happens with the focus.

glad your ok mate

Kevin

Darkside

if you believe you ar going to get carjacked, but have time (as the person who started this thread did) simply stop the car,set your alarm and throw the keys down the drain. After all whats the cost of a set of keys compared to losing your pride and joy

Mojo

Erm, and you think that wouldn't annoy the would be hi-jackers to just kicking the cr*p out of you?
Don't forget, these guys tend to travel in packs and can quite easily do a lot of damage to you in a very short space of time.
I keep my disklok keys separate from my car keys, so I could give the scumbags the car keys, leg it and raise a comotion while they were left with a car they still couldn't move.
If you're in the car, I would NEVER recommend getting out.
It's very hard to say what to do.... you never really know until you're in the situation and then it's all down to instinct.

Mojo

Scooby Snacks

Pepper spray has mentioned a number of times in this thread but it's illegal in this country. I will be taking my annual vacation to the good old USA if anyone wants me to bring some back......

Lozza

Phil - glad your okay but that has just so reminded me of something.

About two weeks ago two asian guys in a black focus followed me around Derby were right up my backside tried to get away but traffic was a nightmare. Anyway they pull up alongside me and so I ask em what the f**k they're doing. He then says that he used to have one and he was just making sure I could drive it properly!!!

Scary when your a female on your own I can tell you

Chu

Pepper spay is avilable from France!! you can have it over there as are stun guns!!

you can also buy telescopic battons in the UK but it is only illagal if you have it extended!!

pepper spay would be ideal as you dont have to make any contact with the carjackers, just hold up and press and then drive off!! v.v. nasty stuff on the resiving end!!

Claudius

Replace the tyre, what else?

Why would I do that?? I'm not a stupid kid with a 106...

I dont think murder rates are related to being allowed to carry a gun. Look at Virginian murder rates. It's related to hatred, racism, oppression, poverty, etc. Get real.

Claudius

It's not about the car, it's about your life.

Claudius

You seem to be amazed by this state of things? Is there anything special about buying these sprays, gels, fake handguns etc??

You can go into a shop and buy a shotgun as well in France, which I have done several times already and find much more effective against car jackers (especially with 9 grain ). I have one for sale BTW, black Mossberg 12 gauge, GBP 150.

Take care guys, and watch it

pslewis

I've not read the whole thread - but I reckon they were just having fun chasing you, thats all. Had you not sped away I am sure they would have lost interest and drifted off - seeing you worried excites them!!

I wouldnt bother driving at high speed to escape what could have been nothing - I would let them catch a good glimpse of the size of me - let them way up the odds and drive away. One of them has to get out to get you, when you are stationary ALWAYS leave an escape route. I leave a good 15 foot between me and the vehicle in front at the lights/junction/whatever - you can then drive off when one or two get out and walk up to you. You THEN accelerate off leaving them for dead as they have to get back in the car and give chase.

Finally, STOP SH1TTING YOURSELVES or sell the car!!

Pete

Chu

Mike as i said b4 i know that they are illegal in the UK!! if you was caught with a stun gun and Tazzer, it would be classed as a firearm!!
Telescopic Battons are a slight gray area too meny loop holes in the law!! it all depends on the length of the batton ie if it is extended or not!!when closed it is not over a certan length so is not classed as a weapon!! so the catch is for the law to prove that you have openned it in public.!!
(saying that i am no lawer so can not say if im 100% right!!)

Claudius

Hi Andy

Actually, you are right. Dont shoot at people waving a gun at you to jack your car (if they would want your car, that is). Let them shoot you. One less stupid person in the word is a good start.

106rallye

Ha ha you will have to try harder than that to wind me up! keep them coming if you want to but you are making a serious thread look very personal - I think (as much as an obviously very stupid 106 driver can) my point is as valid as the next persons and if you want to have a proper debate about it I suggest you do it by email mate its in my profile. On the other hand if you want to keep the cheap shots coming then I would keep them on here as it is rather amusing, you can start a whole thread devoted to it if thats what turns you on!

Cheers mate

Andy

K9VYN [Kevin W]

Guys 'n' Gals,

There are a lot of responses to this thread. And obviously this indicates a huge and increasing concern for the safety of ourselves, our passengers and our property. The question is, what can we do about it?

I may be one of the silly people out there who will protect my posessions no matter how small. I work hard to earn the right to drive a Subaru. I want to enjoy it for what it is and the people it brings me into contact with (i.e. our Scooby community). I am currently spending close to £5K on the car over a 2 month period. I have recently had my doubts as to whether it is worthwhile or not due to increased car hi-jacking stats.

My car, in my opinion, will be returned to me in a near fantastic state (money well spent in my eyes). I neither want to lose it nor have it damaged by or because of anyone. So where do we go from here. The police cannot be on hand to all of us 24hrs a day. And we should not be restricted/imprisoned by these clowns!

I think maybe remote immobilisation devices would be a reasonable idea. It enables you to leave the scene of an incident (hopefully unharmed) and immobilise the vehicle from a safe distance. Surely some product like this exists (apologies if this has already been mentioned). If so, perhaps the SIDC can negotiate preferential prices for Subaru owners (other car clubs could do the same)?

Is this a stupid idea? Other than that, all we are left with is taking the law into our own hands (not good), getting hurt (not good) or losing our property (not good)! It looks pretty much like a lose lose situation to me, but we must somehow put a stop to this before someone is seriously, if not mortally, wounded!

Kevin

Mike Tuckwood

Mate, I'm not a lawyer either, let me assure you though without a single doubt an expanding baton as you describe IS an offensive weapon, no grey area, no loopholes or exceptions.

It is nothing to do with length, deployment, intended use or other. It is by design an instrument (weapon) with a primary/sole use of striking people with.

I only labour this and the other points so that others are not lulled into thinking something which is highly illegal starts to appear in peoples cars with them thinking that they are within the law. They would not be and it would turn them into exactly what they are trying not to be on the spot.

Also, not wanting to **** on anyones cornflakes further, any item so used in the manner of an offensive weapon, (Mag lite/baseball bat as a couple of examples, then fall under the category of "A weapon of offence".

You could validate why you had it maybe, but would get you into exactly the same level of trouble as using an offensive weapon if you used it to strike or attempt to strike someone with it (whatever it may be).

Wise words Kev. I hope people are VERY careful, the main point is, don't allow any scumbag to stop you having the things you want in life. If you need to be more careful/vigilant so be it, just don't let them get on top!


Mike.

[Edited by Mike Tuckwood - 8/7/2002 11:45:42 PM]

Claudius

I meant that.

No, YOU started taking bull, mate.

Come on, be honest

See!? There's things we agree on!

Ok, that is indeed very stupid. Your point is not valid because you are as much of a man as the next one (are you, btw? ). Your point is valid if it is supported by valid arguments. Inferring from "two skinheads come running to your door, try to open it" that they want to tell you you have a flat tyre is just plain stupid.

I have no intention to engage into a private conversation with someone of your intelligence and attitude. Furthermore, for proper debate about self protection, I wouldnt use scoobynet. I talk about cars here, and was just trying to help someone get out of a car jacking situation alive.

At least you've got some humour

106rallye

By saying that I should be shot because you think I am stupid, and drive a 106 is hardly valid arguments now is it!

And along with the fact that you obviously have such little regard for me or my intelegence you think I should be alowed to carry a loaded gun in my car to protect myself if I THINK someone is about to car jack me!!

BTW - just to let you know the only 106 I have driven in the past 2 years is the loan car whilst our Terzo is in for some bodywork

Andy Davis BSc(hons)



[Edited by 106rallye - 8/8/2002 9:26:31 AM]

[Edited by 106rallye - 8/8/2002 9:27:54 AM]

Chu

did you get caught with one then??
the loop hole which i talkig about is that you can freely buy them over the couter!!
at the end of the day anything can be used to cause harm!!
the thing is to keep your wits up!!
every one will have their own reaction to the situation.

NeilT

I spent a day training with a police driving instructor some months back, during which we discussed car jacking.

His advice to minimise the risk was lengthy, main points as follows:

When stopping at traffic lights, junctions etc leave at least 1 cars length between you and the car in front, that way if you do get rammed from behind you have an exit.

If you get hit from behind (the favourite way of getting you to get out of your car and 'hand over' the keys), do not get out the car, just wind the window down to talk to them, keep the engine running in case you need to get away.

If you do get chased, head towards the nearest police station.

Obviously these points wouldnt have helped Phil on this occaison, but should be something we should all be doing to minimise the risk of the t055ers getting away with our pride and joys!

anyone care to add anything else? This sort of thing ought to be added to the SIDC FAQ - if it isnt already.

Neil
www.scoobyworld.co.uk

The other thing we could do is start a petition, all sign it and send it to No 10 asking for heavier sentences for these *%@£ and more police to track and deal with these situations...

Claudius

I was talking about YOUR argument, not mine. Mine are valid. I never said you should get shot, I said that you might if you dont shoot first. If you think that's not valid, as I said before, try it out.

No. I think people with your level of intelligence (check out this spelling, it's much better than yours, bachelor ) should not be allowed (good spelling again) to drive a car, let alone own and carry a firearm.

Too bad you wont get any intelligence or driving capability back with the car when you get it back...

Which University did you get this degree from? One of those that email me in my hotmail account?
Good you used the abbreviation BSc(Hons), I'm sure you couldnt spell the degree name correctly anyway

zip106

Go to the muppet forum, Claudius.......pleeeease.

Claudius

Why dont YOU go there? I make valid statements, you make one sided useless comments.

scooby nutter

What are all the people doing wineing on about illegal weapons??

If someone tries to physically remove me from my car with threating behaviour i think i have a right to have a go back and beat the C**t to a pulp with whatever is close to hand.
Its a sad state of affairs is the legal system in the uk,the victim is also the Criminal?????
We need to stand up to the T***s who make us high powered car owners lives misery...


I'll use my Baton or my CS spray on any of the Ba*****s.
And its legal to own a Expandable baton in the uk.Check
www.spytech-uk.com for batons and Defender spray which looks good!

Duncan

Jacey Boy

I agree,

I think the only people that have guns in the UK now are the criminals, if we protect ourselves from attack from a criminal and injure them or kill we would be sent down, as apposed to the criminal, take the Tony Martin case for example, he didnt ask for those guys to come on his land to steal.

By the way I own 2 shot guns, 1x .22 rifle and a 7.62cal AK47, and know how leathal they are, but if this is how England is going I am glad I have these guns in my house to protect my family.

Ray_li

a copy said to me along time a go, body and hair spray in the eyes can be a good weapon.

Jolly Green Monster 2

I agree that we should be able to protect ourselves but if it were legal to for example asault someone that broke into my house then all the crims would be staging that after they have beaten someone to a pulp?

I am just thinking about it from a different angle..

All comes down to what you can and cannot prove at the end of the day I guess.

If someone really wants to take my car, I will do what I can to stop them within reason but without putting myself or family at risk.. but if they come at me with a knife or something else or there are two of them then anything I have to hand would be used to protect myself legal or otherwise I'd rather be in prison than dead... I think....

as to carrying anything illegal I have no intension of doing so.. I might feel a wee bit bad if my daughter tried the pepper spray with the hairspray label and sprayed it in her eyes and then ran through the patio doors because she was scared out of her wits and couldn't see where she was going.... and then my son shoots two toes off on his left foot with the soren off I had stashed under the passenger seat...

Is it really worth the risks of carrying this kind of stuff? I think not..

If it were all legal then the crims will just go one stage further to get one over on the average guy.. rather than an old just about works soren off they'll have a semi automatic etc...

Better just to stop them being legal and it lowers the risks all round.. then most crims have nothing special and the armed police have a chance of taking them out.

Just my humble opinion..

JGM

Mike Tuckwood

No it certainly is not!

It's not illegal to 'sell' them, if you check out the spytech website, there is a clear disclaimer there which says,
Disclaimer: Spytech accepts no responsibility for illegal and/or dangerous use of any item purchased from this web site.

I was unable to see anything on the web site which stated (or even implied) that it was legal to carry one. (Beacause it's not).


Mike.

Phil Harrison

While hardly the last word in weaponry (and I subscribe the the "flight is better than fight" school of though) I do carry a heavy and solid six inch metal bolt very close to hand by virtue of having a gearbox deadlock. It would add weight to the fist in an emegency, though, and is the ultimate in handy items which necessarily are present in the cabin.....

Jacey Boy: I'd hand that AK47 in instantly.... and I certainly wouldn't advertise ownership of it over the net .... since private ownership of semi-automatic rifles is illegal under the Firearms Act (unless you've had it deactivated by a gunsmith and so demonstrated to the police when applying for a firearms certificate). Further, you should never boast of owning a firearm over the net (even in jest): despite your reticence in your scoobynet profile, you are undoubtedly traceable. And to say openly that you have weapons "...to protect my family...." is inviting Dorset Police to revoke your certificates for want of "good reason" for ownership. If there's a Dorset Police Officer who is a Scoobynetter, you're might shortly be put to some incovenience....

For those discussing Handguns of various sorts, be similarly advised: ownership or possession of a "Section 5" Firearm (which effectively covers every handgun you might conceivably carry on your person) is an absolute offence in UK Law. Fullstop. (Claudius please note). Penalties are severe, though they fall short of "deserving to be shot on sight" (an immoderate comment from a Moderator!!) You would certainly expect to be subject to what is euphemistically called a "hard stop" if there was the slightest suggestion to Police that you had one: and (IMHO) many Police Officers who conduct such stops are not as expert in the use of their firearms as they would like to believe and their Training might suggest that they should be. A prison sentence would be near-automatic if you were found with one!!

And yes[rant on] 40,000 law abiding UK citizens were criminalised for the actions of one unbalanced individual, a criminalisation which has not had one jot of effect on the mushrooming numbers of illegally held firearms increasingly used in the commission of crime[/rant off]

Phil

Jacey Boy

Phil,

I have a single shot AK47 which IS fully licensed with the police and belong to the local gun club, I can assure you that just by telling you I have one they will not revoke my license!

TolTec

Sorry to butt in chaps

I agree with Phil, the "protecting my family" bit does not make the firearms officers happy.

Two rules of self defense

1. Don't be there
2. Win

Winning can be problematic though so No.1 is always best.