Shaolin

Ive been thinking about this alot recently, although more of "you are coming back to your car and catch someone trying to break in".
If i was in that situation i can honestly say that i would try my hardest to cause them some serious damage.
Although being in a car, and then someone trying to carjack you, would be completely different, that must be scary, because they must have some serious ***** to try something like that.
If i had a company car, i would probably just let them have it, but for a car that i have worked for, i really dont know what i would do, if i could over power them, then i really would have to break something, and to be honest they are scum and if they died...........who cares.
Blimey, some of this sounds like those Police adverts on telly........like the one with Lennox Lewis......etc.....ha ha ha ha.

johnfelstead

Phil, i moderate the drivetrain and suspension forums, not the firearms forum. I have opinions like everyone else and will express those. Being a moderator does not make you less human, no matter what some people may think.

Claudius

Thanks for confirming that you dont get shot by the Police when carrying a handgun, Phil. I agree John's comment was out of order, but, as he says, he may have whatever strange opinion on the subject, that's his right, and I'm certainly the last person who would want to take that away from him.

As for not being allowed to carry a gun in the UK, well, I dont live there, so it's up to the people who live there to decide whether they prefer getting a fine (maybe prison you say?) for carrying a gun or shot by a criminal who wants their car.

I know what I would decide, but each to their own...

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I am so glad I live in Germany and we don't have any of this bull****, people here stare at my car in amazement but that is about it. also you should see the weapons shops we have here, the stuff they sell amazes even me

MH

Simple stuff can be very effective and 'legal'.
If you use contact lenses there's a disinfectant you can buy from boots.

I've accidentally put this stuff in my eye and its bloody agony and you cant open your eyes for 2 mins. It comes in a handy powerful squirt can. A few squirts of that in anyone's eyes and you'll have plenty of time to get away ( or whatever ). It doesn't do any long term damage but the person whose eyes you just sprayed it into wont know that.

Also carrying some sand in your pocket also has a good effect when thrown in someone's eyes.

Did anyone see 'Britain's Angriest Men' last night. I think you'd need something pretty heavy duty to stop some of them.

Crook locks have got to be the best legalish type of thing to carry.
'I didn't plan to hit him with it.It was just close to hand when I defended myself'

Im not a legal expert or anything so who knows ?

You've got to be careful though. Look at the Kenneth Noye road rage incident. You never know who your up against or what they've got on them.

For the record, I don't carry anything in my car.

Jerome

I was talking about this thread to someone the other day and he was telling about something that happened to him a while back.

He was driving his car in the Docklands area of London when the terrorist bomb had gone off. The Police where stopping all cars and were searching them thoroughly. They found a Swiss Army penknife in the passenger footwell of his car. He got a fine for carrying an offensive weapon in a public place.

Maybe they were being over the top because of the security level at the time, but the important thing is your car interior is considered a public place. *Anything* in the passenger compartment of your car that the Police construe as a weapon could land you in court - including Maglites, bolts etc.

Also bear in mind that the average car-jacker will have a lot more experience of violence than the average member of the public. He will also be more adept at taking weapons off other people as well as using them to inflict harm. He is also unlikely to stop after 1 hit; more likely when you are completely unconscious and seriously injured. Remember the (rather large & tough) guy stabbed to death with a screwdriver trying to stop scum stealing someone else's car?

The Claudius's of this world are welcome to take the law into their own hands and risk life and limb protecting their property using any means, fair or foul, but I recommend that most people put themselves and their families before their car.

Brendan Hughes

Jerome, I don't know the facts, but it sounds like they might have been misinterpreted. I would not say that the inside of your car is a public place, but that his car is effectively his "clothing", and therefore "he" is carrying an offensive weapon in a public place, as his car is in the p.p. Sorry, that's a mess, but do you see my distinction? Otherwise you have no right to eject a member of the public from the inside of your car, which is clearly crap.

perhaps I'm wrong, but that's my guess.

Still sounds pathetic. A swiss army knife, ffs. Sodding great Bowie knife, OK. Was he lippy, did they charge him as he put them in a bad mood? You'd expect police hunting for terrorists would have more to do than waste paperwork on people with swiss army knives.

MH

This may or may not be true - any lawyers or police on here who can shed light on it ???

If you have a weapon but it is in a bag in the car aren't you allowed to have it ?
I'm sure if your transporting weapons on the way to a martial arts class then this is ok ?

Might have to prove you were going to \ coming from your martial arts class ???

Jacey Boy

Correct, If I carry my guns to the club they are in the boot in bags, if the police stop me they cannot prove I was not on the way to the range

rapiddescent

"having an offensive weapon in a public place"

the car and its interior are a public place. If it had been in the boot and in a closed box then they wouldn't have bothered.

rd

Ray_li

I believe the blade on a knife like a swiss army knife needs to be more than 3 inches to be classed as a weapon.

Ray

speedking

If you are on the reciving end of a threat by an imitation firearm then your perception of it being real is enough for the incident to be treated as a real firearm incident. (Hence the police can shoot people carrying chairlegs if they perceive a threat).

Therefore if you are on the reciving end of a threat by an imitation carjacking then your perception of it being real should be enough for the incident to be treated as a real carjacking incident, irrespective of the outcome.

Those that don't think this was real do not matter, it was Phil's perception at the time that matters.

Hope your OK.

PS Glad I don't own a Focus whose numberplate has been cloned when the vigilantes come round

keefa

This thread seems to diverse a little more every time I read it !
I think a point that seems to be eluding us is the fact that we are all different.
Our perception to experienced or perceived danger is manifold and is dependent on an infinite number of circumstances. We all react differently to a situation, moreover no two situations cannot be and never are the same. In reaction to a specific dangerous or potentially dangerous situation, there will also be a number of possibilities, what will work for one person (intimidation etc.) may not work for another. We mostly have cars we are proud of. To me this denotes an element of responsibility and independent thought. Who is to say what is wrong or what is right, the only definition of ‘right’ is being within the terms of the relevant country's law ans may not always be possible to follow. The reaction we make to danger is usually made within a short amount of time with the help of adrenaline etc. and sometimes without the thought of repercussions or consequence. Personally, scum who want to nick my car can take it when they crowbar my keys from my rotting corpse.

salsa-king

Keefa
not had Email back from you!!



AFR
pull to the side????? when i came to a stop at the Traffic lights they SLOWLY came along side of me!!!
wehn the lights changeed to green they SLOWLY moved off handing out the window looking at me waiting for me to move off!!!!! doesn't sound like they were just looking at the car and trying to race!!!
ALSO why did they go upa ONE WAY STREET the WRONG way to double back onto me...when i gave them the slip????

Even the police said thats not the behaviour of lads just tryin to race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you needed to be there!!! not the usual lads in cars seeing what a scoob can do! and i'm not going to wait for the pR*ts to ram my bumper to find out that they were going to Car Jack me.

If you've already read my second thread reagring this....the car has been seen again on thursday..same driver..same car BUt on differant plates!!
BU02 EUB
Police have confirmed that the plates NOW on the car belong to a Silver SEAT in Surry!!!!

Does that sound suspect or what????????????????????






PS
guys this GUN subject is a bit tiresome now!!
if you have a gun in your car...you risk the one being SHOT by the police.
GUN crime has gone up 300% since we had the gun amminsty a few years back (figures quoted on Raidio 2 the other week)
the ordinary man in the streets not got a gun...so who are this extra 300% that are using guns????????????????????


Phil

AFR

Salsa, it might have been easier to pull in at the side of the road and see if they stopped after you, than speed to 70mph in a 30 when it doesn't seem entirely clear that they intended to "jack" you.

Driving an Impreza, they probably just *assumed* you were a muppet anyway.

Glad you're OK either way but I do think people are getting a bit paranoid about "jackings".

[Edited by AFR - 8/9/2002 1:43:23 PM]

rapiddescent

jerome! it was me that got arrested for having the swiss army penknife found during a stop/search. I had forgotten it was in the door compartment on the drivers side. My trade is a mountain biker and the car was littered with tools. All the sharp ones were lined up on the bonnet and the army knife was the one that 'did it'. Even though it was clear that I had just come back from a race that day (but car stopped much later on) with bits of bike in the car; it was not good enough.

got a formal caution & 5 hours to count the tiles on the cell wall and have been told recently that if it had been post-damiola then it would have been a charge and court appearance...

+ I wasn't lippy and generally went along with what they were saying telling them they were just doing the job etc. even after I had been hit by one of the officers and was searched with my hands up against the rotherhithe tunnel wall.
+ it was 6 months after the marsh wall bomb, but security was still high. I recently learned that my car had been mixed up with a known suspects vehicle. sometimes they are just told to stop "All red Imprezas" to bring people in to see who they are.

all these people talking about having pepper sprays and bats are going to get in trouble. I now am armed with a camera, a brain and about 1 tonne of metal.

rd

[Edited by rapiddescent - 8/9/2002 4:18:08 PM]

MH

I didn't think a Swiss army pen knife qualified as an offensive weapon, the blade isn't long enough.

What was the actual caution for ??

You could always become a chef and have a bag full of meat cleavers.
"I need 'em for me job officer"

I bet that Jamie Oliver has his moped loaded up to the hilt.
"Pukka Machete"

[Edited by MH - 8/9/2002 4:22:37 PM]

iwantone

Lets gets this straight. It is not an arrestable offence to carry or to have on your person a swiss army knife. Unless the blade is longer that 3 inches. If your knife locks in anyway no matter how small, say a wooden handled knife with the spring locking device then that is fair game to the cops.
I suspect that the scooby chasers were out to cause exactly what they have done **** some innocent guy up in a nice car. They were having what they would call a laugh at your expense.
Often you will find people who have little chance of being caught ie chances are it was a hire car, are braver than they would usually be.
It takes a very brave man to front these sort out and call their bluff.
Car jacking would not involve a high speed chase, theyhit you quick and stationary. Think about it if you wanted to take a motor from someone you wouldn`t chase them around town to steal it.

Have you been ******** one of their daughters/sisters or something? That really does **** off some asian dudes.

Hope your feeling better about it.


[Edited by iwantone - 8/9/2002 7:52:35 PM]