Focus RS
25 June 2001, 02:50 PM
#31
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er... sorry, maybe at cross purposes here (and heading totally off topic). Anyway, i read your post as saying that the integra would struggle to keep with the scoob, whereas in my experience at track days a std integra is pretty much identical to a std scoob turbo - and thats wet or dry. Whatever inherant advantage either car has is outweighed by driver ability.
this is getting horribly close to a "Scoob vs something" type post. and its really really not supposed to sound like that...
jon
this is getting horribly close to a "Scoob vs something" type post. and its really really not supposed to sound like that...
jon
25 June 2001, 02:58 PM
#32
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Im confused. What where we talking about again? I got into a "new Integra vs new RS" debate somewhere in my head, and staunchly defended the new Integra, even though it had no bearing on the topic.
But ultimately what you're saying is that Im right, and you're wrong, right? the new Integra IS better than the new RS, right?
why cant I re-read the topic below my Reply box, I cant be expected to remember what someone said one post ago, Im not that throat mic'd Stephen guy for christ sakes!!
Now, back to the topic, it will be going for the same market space as the Scoob, even though its a hatchback, simply because its yet another "rally derived", "my names McRae", "its a real Rally car", "look at all the stick on bits" car, that people who are hooked on Colin McRae Rally 2 will drool over.
Im sorry, my reply is very confused, all Ive had to eat all day is a mini Caribean Coconut Pie, and Im not feeling well at all.
But ultimately what you're saying is that Im right, and you're wrong, right? the new Integra IS better than the new RS, right?
why cant I re-read the topic below my Reply box, I cant be expected to remember what someone said one post ago, Im not that throat mic'd Stephen guy for christ sakes!!
Now, back to the topic, it will be going for the same market space as the Scoob, even though its a hatchback, simply because its yet another "rally derived", "my names McRae", "its a real Rally car", "look at all the stick on bits" car, that people who are hooked on Colin McRae Rally 2 will drool over.
Im sorry, my reply is very confused, all Ive had to eat all day is a mini Caribean Coconut Pie, and Im not feeling well at all.
25 June 2001, 03:03 PM
#33
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RIGHT!!!
As this is my post I'll get you all back on track as it were! See what I did there? Track? Cars etc etc? he he - jeez Im bored!
Well I asked what do people think of the Focus RS, and what do they know?
It is another car that has been developed from motor sport, and as that usually means great things when considering cars like the Impreza, Evo, ITR, etc I was hoping the RS will be a new cult car, like the forementioned. So come on guys, stop arguing!
As this is my post I'll get you all back on track as it were! See what I did there? Track? Cars etc etc? he he - jeez Im bored!
Well I asked what do people think of the Focus RS, and what do they know?
It is another car that has been developed from motor sport, and as that usually means great things when considering cars like the Impreza, Evo, ITR, etc I was hoping the RS will be a new cult car, like the forementioned. So come on guys, stop arguing!
25 June 2001, 03:11 PM
#34
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Ah yes, that was the topic, not if it will challenge the same market.
Okay, it is a bold move from Ford, and more likely to be the shape of stings to come, rather than a cult classic itself.
Its been messy for Fords performance department, with Racing Puma's, and ST24's that have fallen way short of the mark, so they will need to redeme themselves somewhat, or not bother bringing out another "performance" car, cause they've just about used up all their "lets build a lack lustre car and badge it up as a sports car" get out of jail free cards.
If it reaches 60 in so-many-milliseconds, it will get admiration from the Max Power group, if it does that, and controls torque steer, handles well, and is properly put together, it will get proper respect, and a wider following, but if its a bore, and doesnt out-do all the cars that Ford have rumoured it to out-do, then it will be an expensive pose mobile, and a laughing stock.
Hopefully they dont overplay the theme, and shove massive wings all over it, it needs to look classy.
Okay, it is a bold move from Ford, and more likely to be the shape of stings to come, rather than a cult classic itself.
Its been messy for Fords performance department, with Racing Puma's, and ST24's that have fallen way short of the mark, so they will need to redeme themselves somewhat, or not bother bringing out another "performance" car, cause they've just about used up all their "lets build a lack lustre car and badge it up as a sports car" get out of jail free cards.
If it reaches 60 in so-many-milliseconds, it will get admiration from the Max Power group, if it does that, and controls torque steer, handles well, and is properly put together, it will get proper respect, and a wider following, but if its a bore, and doesnt out-do all the cars that Ford have rumoured it to out-do, then it will be an expensive pose mobile, and a laughing stock.
Hopefully they dont overplay the theme, and shove massive wings all over it, it needs to look classy.
25 June 2001, 06:19 PM
#35
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jza:
<B>
Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.....
Jza[/quote]
But not all of us can afford an impreza, old or new, cossy or an integra type R, so I have to make do with something that looks like an XR3I and torque steers like you wouldn't believe! But it does have over 200 BHP and I have just as much fun as everyone else! which is what really counts no matter what you drive.
<B>
Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind.....
Jza[/quote]
But not all of us can afford an impreza, old or new, cossy or an integra type R, so I have to make do with something that looks like an XR3I and torque steers like you wouldn't believe! But it does have over 200 BHP and I have just as much fun as everyone else! which is what really counts no matter what you drive.
25 June 2001, 06:47 PM
#36
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According to the spec:
FORD 2.0-LITRE RS 4 CYL 16 VALVE
MAX POWER 200+bhp
Alloy cylinder head
GARRET GT25 (60) SG water cooled turbocharger (1 bar boost)
water cooled intercooler
uprated MTX-75 5 speed
heavy duty AP Racing clutch
Quaife Automatic Torque Biassing differential
MacPherson wider track struts
uprated coil springs
Sachs racing dampers
revised negative camber and 18mm anti-roll bars
BREMBO 4 pot calipers and 325mm ventilated discs
Rear 2-pot calipers with 280mm discs
power sterring (2.9 turns lock to lock)
18x8 OZ Racing alloys 225/40R/18 Michelin Pilot Sport
Blue/Black leather SPARCO race style seats
Carbon Fibre center console with starter button
Boost guage and change up light incorporated into revised instrument binnacle
FORD 2.0-LITRE RS 4 CYL 16 VALVE
MAX POWER 200+bhp
Alloy cylinder head
GARRET GT25 (60) SG water cooled turbocharger (1 bar boost)
water cooled intercooler
uprated MTX-75 5 speed
heavy duty AP Racing clutch
Quaife Automatic Torque Biassing differential
MacPherson wider track struts
uprated coil springs
Sachs racing dampers
revised negative camber and 18mm anti-roll bars
BREMBO 4 pot calipers and 325mm ventilated discs
Rear 2-pot calipers with 280mm discs
power sterring (2.9 turns lock to lock)
18x8 OZ Racing alloys 225/40R/18 Michelin Pilot Sport
Blue/Black leather SPARCO race style seats
Carbon Fibre center console with starter button
Boost guage and change up light incorporated into revised instrument binnacle
26 June 2001, 12:13 AM
#37
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No-bodies yet brought up the subject of tunability. Assuming the engine is the latest variation on the zetec theme then the skys the limit, just look at Ian Howells zetec fiesta with over 350bhp. Albeit through the front wheels 
. Depending on the management, a nice power hike could easily scare most cars.
Paul
. Depending on the management, a nice power hike could easily scare most cars.Paul
26 June 2001, 12:55 AM
#38
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I'm a big Scoob fan - I liked them so much I bought one and I have not been disappointed.
Respect to Ford - they have produced some bloody dire cars but also some Crackers - Ford GT, RS200, RS500, Cosworths Escort, etc
There is no reason why they might not come up with another stunner.
How much will the RS be?
Respect to Ford - they have produced some bloody dire cars but also some Crackers - Ford GT, RS200, RS500, Cosworths Escort, etc
There is no reason why they might not come up with another stunner.
How much will the RS be?
26 June 2001, 11:52 AM
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As posted somewhere else, needing a car with a back seat now, not liking the new scoob and with the Evo7 in Italy being very expensive, I have recently put down a deposit for an RS, delivery early October, refundable at pre-purchase test drive. The spec given to Ford Italy by Ford Europe so far are 210hp and 230torque, which at a weight of about 1250 and no 4wd transmission losses should make it fairly fast. Brakes are huge, steering and damping allegedly v.sharp, and the diff should do an ITR impersonation when it comes to making a fwd car handle superbly.
Obviously I await the test drive, but I think it will be a very nice car, and looks great in and out imo. Price in Italy will be not exceeding 30000Euros according to Ford Italy.
Wall
Obviously I await the test drive, but I think it will be a very nice car, and looks great in and out imo. Price in Italy will be not exceeding 30000Euros according to Ford Italy.
Wall
26 June 2001, 01:49 PM
#41
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Don't you just love these hypothetical arguements about a car nobody has driven?? Anything can look good on paper, infact the Austin Allegro looked good on paper before release! The proof is in the eating... err driving?
26 June 2001, 02:14 PM
#42
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JayDee:
<B>
How much will the RS be?[/quote]
£23000 is the price that has been released so far
Seems to have been a lot of misuderstanding over this. Answering the question in short..
What do I know...
I know the press pack states 200bhp and 230lb/ft torque with a further note saying torque will be between 220 and 230. Prices realised have been £23000. Press cars are on the loose now - I know an independant journo who is driving one this week, and promises to give me the 'gen'. I know it will only have FWD due to the problems and cost in making it AWD - sames problems that have been the nail in the coffin for the focus cosworth. I know in order to counter the handicap of FWD it will have a 'very clever' quaife diff. I know it will have plenty of rallying labels - AP clutch, OZ wheels and 'likely-to-be-awesome' standard 325mm Brembo stoppers.
My thoughts...
It will be a stunning and great car. Building on the class leading std focus, it can't really fail from a drivers point of view. It will be well specc'd with rallying hardware, but won't turn the car into a ***** out - stripped out pure perfromance car, as none of the luxuries are being ditched. It will be fast, and in the dry should be able to hold it's own (once on the move) with a standard impreza. However, with a traction handicap and less power, the impreza will pull the advantage on the twisties, and streak ahead in the wet. At £23000 it is £3-4000 overpriced.
I still think the Integra Type R (new and current) will have the 'drivers' edge over the RS. With virtually identical power (197 Vs 200) but 20% less weight, the integra remains 'THE' FWD performance car, the only advantages I see the RS having over the ITR are comfort (the ITR is NOT a comfortable place to live) and mid range (everyday) flexibility with the torque advantage from the forced induction.
If Ford did make it a proper rally-to-road car and ditched 150kg of weight, or gave it more power and AWD, I would expect it would be a match (more than?) for the std impreza, but as it is, it will just be a FWD Hot Hatch, a class leading and superb hot hatch, but still a FWD hot hatch with two few driving wheels and/or too much weight and/or too little power to worry the full 'rally-to-road' leaders
...oh and tunability isn't really an issue. The Zetec lump is unproven at high BHP, and even if it can be taken over 250/280hp, the FWD traction won't
<B>
How much will the RS be?[/quote]
£23000 is the price that has been released so far
Seems to have been a lot of misuderstanding over this. Answering the question in short..
What do I know...
I know the press pack states 200bhp and 230lb/ft torque with a further note saying torque will be between 220 and 230. Prices realised have been £23000. Press cars are on the loose now - I know an independant journo who is driving one this week, and promises to give me the 'gen'. I know it will only have FWD due to the problems and cost in making it AWD - sames problems that have been the nail in the coffin for the focus cosworth. I know in order to counter the handicap of FWD it will have a 'very clever' quaife diff. I know it will have plenty of rallying labels - AP clutch, OZ wheels and 'likely-to-be-awesome' standard 325mm Brembo stoppers.
My thoughts...
It will be a stunning and great car. Building on the class leading std focus, it can't really fail from a drivers point of view. It will be well specc'd with rallying hardware, but won't turn the car into a ***** out - stripped out pure perfromance car, as none of the luxuries are being ditched. It will be fast, and in the dry should be able to hold it's own (once on the move) with a standard impreza. However, with a traction handicap and less power, the impreza will pull the advantage on the twisties, and streak ahead in the wet. At £23000 it is £3-4000 overpriced.
I still think the Integra Type R (new and current) will have the 'drivers' edge over the RS. With virtually identical power (197 Vs 200) but 20% less weight, the integra remains 'THE' FWD performance car, the only advantages I see the RS having over the ITR are comfort (the ITR is NOT a comfortable place to live) and mid range (everyday) flexibility with the torque advantage from the forced induction.
If Ford did make it a proper rally-to-road car and ditched 150kg of weight, or gave it more power and AWD, I would expect it would be a match (more than?) for the std impreza, but as it is, it will just be a FWD Hot Hatch, a class leading and superb hot hatch, but still a FWD hot hatch with two few driving wheels and/or too much weight and/or too little power to worry the full 'rally-to-road' leaders
...oh and tunability isn't really an issue. The Zetec lump is unproven at high BHP, and even if it can be taken over 250/280hp, the FWD traction won't
26 June 2001, 04:06 PM
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The zetec lump is by no means unproven, there are loads of ZVH and 16V blown zetecs out there and they are proving to be bomb proof.
Traction and power delivery. Thats another ball game
Paul
Traction and power delivery. Thats another ball game
Paul
27 June 2001, 03:01 PM
#45
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I went to the Focus RS preview @ Boreham and it looks lovely but they didnt run it and I dont think it even had an engine in it and I had the choice I would still of taken the RS200 or the Gt40 on show . If the rumours are true it will be a very capable car.. in the dry.. dont fancy it in the wet mind
Its a well overdue return to the RS brand
. If the rumours are true it will be a very capable car.. in the dry.. dont fancy it in the wet mind Its a well overdue return to the RS brand
28 June 2001, 09:25 AM
#48
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B> I still think the Integra Type R (new and current) will have the 'drivers' edge over the RS. With virtually identical power (197 Vs 200) but 20% less weight, the integra remains 'THE' FWD performance car, the only advantages I see the RS having over the ITR are comfort (the ITR is NOT a comfortable place to live) and mid range (everyday) flexibility with the torque advantage from the forced induction.
[/quote]
Hmmm.... So my 'Teg has 197??? Thought it was 187bhp (or 190ps)
As for comfort, Gary, have you lived with one? For me its not any more uncomfortable than the Scoob and easier to drive around town. Sure its noisier.
Its not that inflexible either due to short gearing. Clearly no match for Scoob or RS though.
Agree on the "THE Fwd Performance car" though
Personally, I think that the Focus RS will be awesome in the dry, and "fun" in the wet.
May be same weight and have less power (but more torque) however the much lower transmission losses will mean more of that power hits the road.
Figs for my 'teg place it over 1 second slower to 60 than a MY01, but the same to 100. By simple deduction 'Teg is faster 60 to 100 than MY01 Scoob, or, in other words, where it really matters.
I really believe that aside from the zero to 60 which is a traction issue as mush as anything else, the RS will be significantly faster than its scooby competition which is the MY01 once on the move.
As for handling, the Ford motorsport boys know what they are doing, thats for sure.
For the record, cross country in the Integra in the dry granted, is not handicapped by 2wd. Once on the move, the traction difference is negligable. (All this from experience, by the way
)
D
<B> I still think the Integra Type R (new and current) will have the 'drivers' edge over the RS. With virtually identical power (197 Vs 200) but 20% less weight, the integra remains 'THE' FWD performance car, the only advantages I see the RS having over the ITR are comfort (the ITR is NOT a comfortable place to live) and mid range (everyday) flexibility with the torque advantage from the forced induction.
[/quote]
Hmmm.... So my 'Teg has 197??? Thought it was 187bhp (or 190ps)
As for comfort, Gary, have you lived with one? For me its not any more uncomfortable than the Scoob and easier to drive around town. Sure its noisier.
Its not that inflexible either due to short gearing. Clearly no match for Scoob or RS though.
Agree on the "THE Fwd Performance car" though
Personally, I think that the Focus RS will be awesome in the dry, and "fun" in the wet.
May be same weight and have less power (but more torque) however the much lower transmission losses will mean more of that power hits the road.
Figs for my 'teg place it over 1 second slower to 60 than a MY01, but the same to 100. By simple deduction 'Teg is faster 60 to 100 than MY01 Scoob, or, in other words, where it really matters.
I really believe that aside from the zero to 60 which is a traction issue as mush as anything else, the RS will be significantly faster than its scooby competition which is the MY01 once on the move.
As for handling, the Ford motorsport boys know what they are doing, thats for sure.
For the record, cross country in the Integra in the dry granted, is not handicapped by 2wd. Once on the move, the traction difference is negligable. (All this from experience, by the way
)D
28 June 2001, 01:27 PM
#49
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I have a copy of the official Ford RS Focus brochure on me......the actuall power figure quoted on the blurb is....wait for it....200+hp .....so, it's more than 200 !!
Now - who was it that wanted a piccy of said car - I have a scanner on my desk and a nice colour pic of the RS Focus ready to be scanned !
Now - who was it that wanted a piccy of said car - I have a scanner on my desk and a nice colour pic of the RS Focus ready to be scanned !
28 June 2001, 01:56 PM
#53
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Oh hell, really dont like the look of it.
I certainly wouldnt consider one, though I dont doubt there will be Max Muppet stick on bits to make it look even worse.
Looked again, and have to add, is this the ******* child of a VW Beetle and an MPV?
Somehow the combination of big wheels and smooth contours make it look even rounder than the already drab looking normal one. Shame really.
[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 28 June 2001).]
I certainly wouldnt consider one, though I dont doubt there will be Max Muppet stick on bits to make it look even worse.
Looked again, and have to add, is this the ******* child of a VW Beetle and an MPV?
Somehow the combination of big wheels and smooth contours make it look even rounder than the already drab looking normal one. Shame really.
[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 28 June 2001).]
28 June 2001, 01:57 PM
#54
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RSMART:
<B>I have a copy of the official Ford RS Focus brochure on me......the actuall power figure quoted on the blurb is....wait for it....200+hp .....so, it's more than 200 !!
[/quote]
Since when do official brochures NOT quote exact figures?
If you would rather believe an approximate figure on 'blurb' than an actual figure from the press pack, then fine - it has more than 200bhp
But would this be the same nature/source of blurb that said the Focus Cosworth would be here by Jan 2002?
Diablo - I 'lived' with an ITR for just a day on an extended test drive, loved it, brilliant car, but I felt it was less 'live-able with' than the MY99/00 Impreza, and overall not as good/VFM (but then lets face it, I changed the scoob for a BMW, so I'm obviously too soft ).
BUT having now driven a MY01, I would get the Integra over the MY01, and can believe the ITR is faster above 60. I am surprised it is as much as a second slower to 60! - the MY01 felt like the turbo had been 'disconnected'
The new ITR (assuming it gets here ) will be the car for the Focus RS to beat - but it will have it's work cut out if the current ITR is the starting point.
<B>I have a copy of the official Ford RS Focus brochure on me......the actuall power figure quoted on the blurb is....wait for it....200+hp .....so, it's more than 200 !!
[/quote]
Since when do official brochures NOT quote exact figures?
If you would rather believe an approximate figure on 'blurb' than an actual figure from the press pack, then fine - it has more than 200bhp
But would this be the same nature/source of blurb that said the Focus Cosworth would be here by Jan 2002?
Diablo - I 'lived' with an ITR for just a day on an extended test drive, loved it, brilliant car, but I felt it was less 'live-able with' than the MY99/00 Impreza, and overall not as good/VFM (but then lets face it, I changed the scoob for a BMW, so I'm obviously too soft
). BUT having now driven a MY01, I would get the Integra over the MY01, and can believe the ITR is faster above 60. I am surprised it is as much as a second slower to 60! - the MY01 felt like the turbo had been 'disconnected'
The new ITR (assuming it gets here
) will be the car for the Focus RS to beat - but it will have it's work cut out if the current ITR is the starting point.
28 June 2001, 02:33 PM
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As it happens Gary - this brochure is the one published by the ....wait for it...Ford Motor Company Limited, Brentwood, Essex and was obtained from my local Ford dealership. So to answer your question "Since when do official brochures NOT quote exact figures? - the answer is "since now !!!"
28 June 2001, 02:38 PM
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But what does 200+ mean? 299? 201? its a cop out, to make everyone go "oooh, maybe it'll have ***BHP!!".
How come Ford dont know how much HP it puts out? surely they should have some sort of set figure, or will other motor manufacturers follow suite? if so, the new Subaru has 210BHP +, and incedentally, an Evo VI Extreme has 100BHP +.
How come Ford dont know how much HP it puts out? surely they should have some sort of set figure, or will other motor manufacturers follow suite? if so, the new Subaru has 210BHP +, and incedentally, an Evo VI Extreme has 100BHP +.
28 June 2001, 05:38 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RSMART:
<B>As it happens Gary - this brochure is the one published by the ....wait for it...Ford Motor Company Limited, Brentwood, Essex and was obtained from my local Ford dealership. So to answer your question "Since when do official brochures NOT quote exact figures? - the answer is "since now !!!"
[/quote]
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and the greatest proof of lack of intelligent arguement" - Billy Connelly
If that is a 'proper' brochure that has been printed, it must have taken minimum three months from writing to distribution, and thus pre-dates the press-pack by around the same 3 months. Therefore the Press pack is the up-to-date info, and thus more accurate
'Standing by your brand' is great, Optimism is a wonderful trait - but take the blinkers off, and open your eyes to the facts
Don't worry, no-one is having a go at your beloved RS marque. We have all said it will be cracking car and probably the best FWD hot hatch out there - it's the most expensive so it should! But it has reached the end of its development, the guesswork can stop, the press cars are out and about - we now know the facts about this great car. It is a very fine, finest even, 200hp FWD performance hatch with genuine motorsport hardware.
<B>As it happens Gary - this brochure is the one published by the ....wait for it...Ford Motor Company Limited, Brentwood, Essex and was obtained from my local Ford dealership. So to answer your question "Since when do official brochures NOT quote exact figures? - the answer is "since now !!!"
[/quote]
"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and the greatest proof of lack of intelligent arguement" - Billy Connelly
If that is a 'proper' brochure that has been printed, it must have taken minimum three months from writing to distribution, and thus pre-dates the press-pack by around the same 3 months. Therefore the Press pack is the up-to-date info, and thus more accurate
'Standing by your brand' is great, Optimism is a wonderful trait - but take the blinkers off, and open your eyes to the facts
Don't worry, no-one is having a go at your beloved RS marque. We have all said it will be cracking car and probably the best FWD hot hatch out there - it's the most expensive so it should! But it has reached the end of its development, the guesswork can stop, the press cars are out and about - we now know the facts about this great car. It is a very fine, finest even, 200hp FWD performance hatch with genuine motorsport hardware.
28 June 2001, 05:56 PM
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... have to say though - I quite like the looks. Not too 'Max Power' (...yet ) but a subtle development of a good looking design, and a damned sight better that the abortion-esque, Max Power boys wet-dream Escort Cosworth
IMO the best looking of this year's new age performance 'heros' (WRX, Evo, ITR etc etc) albeit very 'germanic'. Just a shame it hasn't got the umph to compete
) but a subtle development of a good looking design, and a damned sight better that the abortion-esque, Max Power boys wet-dream Escort Cosworth IMO the best looking of this year's new age performance 'heros' (WRX, Evo, ITR etc etc) albeit very 'germanic'. Just a shame it hasn't got the umph to compete
28 June 2001, 09:21 PM
#59
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16
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Scooby WRX 280+ 4wd
STI 310+ 4wd
RS 200+ rwd
Like it has a chance! the rs is just a stop gap till cossie come out in 2004 but by then it will be out dated anyway. the escort cossie was not fast but had loads of tuning part available. Fix or repair daily says it all fords are **** the new focus looks like the KA (HAAAAA) that hasnt had a **** for ages. Ford when will you catch us up???
STI 310+ 4wd
RS 200+ rwd
Like it has a chance! the rs is just a stop gap till cossie come out in 2004 but by then it will be out dated anyway. the escort cossie was not fast but had loads of tuning part available. Fix or repair daily says it all fords are **** the new focus looks like the KA (HAAAAA) that hasnt had a **** for ages. Ford when will you catch us up???