Stef

Tractor.
0-100 times shouldn't be used to assess a car's power, there are simply too many variables. My car's done 0-100 in 13.2secs, and with only 235bhp at the time had a far less power-to-weight ratio than the P1. If your theory is correct my car would need more power than a P1 to achieve this time. It takes a while to get the best out of a car.

Stef.

MartinM

Meanwhile in the real world...

I was party to a "steady" run from the West Country to Goodwood yesterday in a convoy of 3 P1's and a 4 week old MY01 WRX I was passenger in a P1, but the MY01 kept up impressively well. If the official UK WRX STi is Prodrive'd in the right ways, it's gonna be a winner on real roads

[This message has been edited by MartinM (edited 09 July 2001).]

jon hill

the whole numbers thing makes me larfff...

warm, sticky tyres, grippy surface, a well run-in engine and a good driver can probably make a couple of seconds difference on 0-60 between two cars of the same model. (I know my "fastest" 0-60 in the ITR is about 5 minutes of stationary wheel spinning and lurching, before hooking up and getting the reported 6.1 seconds... ). So talking about a couple of seconds difference on a 0-100 run is slightly academic.

I (and probably everyone else here) have gone storming by TVR's, P1's and Ferrari's in my mere 180 bhp saloon when I've got it right. And then been completely toasted by Mk1 Gti's and 205's

The only thing thats certain is that its more rewarding pass a big BHP car in a small one than passing a low power car in a big one. All IMO of course

Jon

matt d

Tractor - the new STi has more than 276bhp. They quote it at that figure because in Japan there is a gentleman's agreement not to produce more than 276bhp in road cars. So they stick in 300bhp or whatever and don't publicise it. The Skyline GTR34 supposedly has 276bhp, but it is faster than the P1 despite weighing almost 300kg more, so obviously the bhp figure is out.

matt d

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chins:
<B>All this talk of the std STI and even Skyline with over 300 bhp is IMHO journalistic crap.
[/quote]

How do you explain the R34 Skyline being quicker than an STi/P1 to 100 when it is lugging around 250-300kg extra? Evo group tested Skyline/M3/911/RS4/Tuscan, and the M3 did 0-100 in 12.3s, the Skyline did it in 12.4s. Their weight is almost identical so given the M3 has 338bhp, how would a 276bhp Skyline come close?

steve McCulloch

In the autocar article how does Warrenders get the sti up to 320hp

If the newer version is supposed to have more power - does anyone kow what they've done. They did'nt say anything in the article other than it had a bigger exhaust - but certainly would not have taken it up to 320hp?

Curious as the standard sti5 produces only 260hp at Powerstation

BT52b

Remember everyone that peak power is not proportional to 0-100 times because during the run you are not always at the peak power revs.

One thing we are constantly told is that the 01 car has a broader spread of torque throughout the rev range therefore it may accelerate faster when off-peak.

Diablo

Guys,

As far as acceleration runs are concerned, its torque thats more relevant than BHP.

An engines ability to increase revs while under load is more a factor of its torque than ultimate power produced. Take two identical cars with same power, but give one more torque and it will accelerate faster, in gear or through the gears.

D

[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 09 July 2001).]

Disco

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Diablo:
<B>Torque

[/quote]

Exactly, my old man has an R34 and it has immense torque, regardless of Bhp!

Diablo

LOL - edited first post to be more clear.

Glad someone understood it.

ChrisB

Whilst all this makes interesting reading, it seems somewhat pointless when you need to order a new transmission every four or five attempts!

ChrisB.

matt d

Ok let's clear this up:

Skyline GTR34: peak bhp supposedly 276@7000rpm, peak torque 289@4400rpm

M3: peak bhp 338@7900rpm, peak torque 269@5000rpm.

The Skyline has only a small peak torque advantage, and a major power deficit, yet it is within 0.1s of the 0-100 time. It is pretty obvious that it has more than 276bhp.

Besides, there is no need to use this example - just look at a dyno graph for any UK standard GTR34 and it will show peak power around 320bhp. Go to the the Skyline GTR owners club

CraigH

Matt,

But how many of the skylines tested are bog std?

I think they have an exceeptionally restrictive exhaust - remove this restriction (as most owners do) and it frees up a fair bit of power.....

With regards to the gentlemans agreements, I agree with Chins - it's rubbish.

When was the last time you saw a 300hp STi which was bog standard? Pretty much never I guess.

Hoppy

Who said torque is more important than bhp? Well, I guess a lot of people as we hear it often enough. Torque appears to be a kind of shorthand term for low rpm bhp, which it isn't.

Torque is meaningless without taking revs and gearing into account. This is what bhp attempts to do. Note that the M3 revs somewhat higher than the 330d.

Run the two cars side by side at a given speed. One with massive torque (330d) and the other with less torque but a lower geared high-revving engine (M3). Now floor it. The car with the highest bhp at that given speed and gear will pull away, ie the M3.

Peak torque and peak bhp figures don't tell you much on their own. Look at the graphs and see which engine is giving most bhp most of the time. That's the really quick one.

Richard.

PS Please don't anyone refer me to some long-winded American prattling on about water-wheels He comes from an alien planet.

matt d

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by CraigH:
<B>Matt,

But how many of the skylines tested are bog std?

I think they have an exceeptionally restrictive exhaust - remove this restriction (as most owners do) and it frees up a fair bit of power.....

With regards to the gentlemans agreements, I agree with Chins - it's rubbish.

When was the last time you saw a 300hp STi which was bog standard? Pretty much never I guess.[/quote]

Craig, there have been several GTR34 Skylines totally standard that have been dynoed and they read around 320bhp. The car on the gtr owners club website was dynoed standard and got around 320, then had a few small mods and got up to around 330 I believe.

Seriously, why would a 2.6 litre twin turbo produce the same power as a single turbo 2 litre engine? Remember the old GTR33 Skyline produced 276bhp, and the R34 is significantly faster 0-100 as tested by all the main magazines. Is there any explanation other than it has more power? Seriously, if anyone doubts this just go to Middlehurst, say you want to buy a GTR34 and ask them to prove it has more than 276bhp, I'm sure they'll be so desperate to sell one they'll take it to the rolling road of your choice!

Sith

Power is nothing compared to the ways of the force...

(Not read the full 2 pages, so I may have mis-interpreted).

Seriously, It doesn't matter how much power you have / haven't got, it's the driver that uses and controls it. I was lost through a corner by a Volvo driver who was far more commited than I. He was happy to get the tail wagging. I bottled it. Want the car in one piece. Even if I had a 300 bhp monster he still would have beaten me.

The figures in evo will also vary on driver, conditions, grade of petrol, age of engine etc. I personally don't think it's worth getting worked up over.

To quote Pirelli 'Power is nothing without control'.

Hey-ho. Feel free to flame me, brand me a muppet etc.

P.