boltona

In response to jeremy: The Scooby has effectively the same handling trait - you have to keep power down otherwise the benefits of 4WD disappear. It's just you can do it faster in the Evo .

Reza

RE:P1

I don't think the car driven in the AUTOCAR article had a 2.2 litre engine with 350bhp(ala 22B rumour which proved to be incorrect) but the comments made were referring to the P1's handling. I had a copy of the article but have left it at home. An earlier article (approx. 1 month previous) said that this car would have a 2.2litre engine with bla bla bla but the newer article rectified this.

GCollier

Reza,

The reference to the demonstration "P1" having 2.2 litre 350bhp is actually from a SIDC magazine. I made enquires about the P1 at the motorshow, with respect to the specification of the test car which was "faster and better" than an Evo 6, but nobody was able (or maybe willing) to give me any technical information, or tell me how it differed from customer cars. All I got was "The P1 on the stand there is the car you will be able to buy."

I guess a lot of it is down to press hype at the end of the day. The Scoob was hero for a while, the Evo 6 came along to take its crown, and presumably the motoring mags need a new king - it just makes good press. I find it hard to believe that on twisty British public A and B roads, when driven with even a small amount of skill and sanity any car exists which could really show up an Evo (or even a stock scoob come to that) to the extent hinted in that article. Even around a track, there's not usually much in it.

I would urge you to actually test drive some of the cars Reza. Magazine articles are all well and good (and I enjoy reading them like the next man), but they are no substitute for personal experience of the vehicle. At the end of the day, they are there to make good reading and hence sell magazines; telling the truth with no exageration whatsoever is not a top priority.

Gary.

Jonathan

Gary & Rezza

I enquired of the P1 white car used by the press and was told it was the std 2.0 litre engine.

Gary is spot on with Magazine articles. You have to cut through some of the language.
EVO mag seems to be the best out there todate IMHO.

"We spear into it purposely going hard in third. In most cars you take a confidence lift when you see the darkness of the dip, but not when your steering a Lancer Evolution VI. It was made for this sort of corner. And besides there's an Impreza STI V up its chuff.
Already loaded with lateral g-force, the EVO hits the apex and its tail squats heavily into the compresion. there a bang and faint poping noise. A glance in the mirror; the STi is still right there."

Above taken from EVO mag. STI V vs EVO VI. Its amazing how a journalist can spice up a corner. Yours truly was driving the STI V and John Barker the EVO VI. I might of written about the corner differently ( although I will always remember it). Yes the EVO couldnt shake me on some of the most demanding roads in the country, but I had brown trousers and soaking palms. Keeping up with Barker driving the Honda "Joy machine" was equally hard work.

The article was very good, but glamourised in parts. I would agree with his verdict. i.e less effort in the EVO to maintain the same pace, but the EVO lacks the character of the STI V.

It will be interesting to see if they are right with the P1. 6-8 weeks and counting.


Jonathan

Rum

Boy...did it take an age to read through the full list!...Anyway...I also have a P1 on order....and I too have had my doubts. It is as many have said a personal choice. I agree that both cars are similar...for me tho....being sentimental and all that...I prefer the scoob.

Regarding whether to wait and see what the new 2000 models are like...well....why bother....they are bound to be better in some way or aother...they always are! So if you want now...and you can afford it! Go get it. As someone wisely stated....if you don't like it, you ould get rid...possibly profit, and but a grey scoob or EVO.

Regarding the insurance Independent are good...best for 30+, named drivers, max bonus, and Trackstar is now compulsory. Tho there are other markets who are similar. Independent will extend cover for track days, and the car doesn't have to be garaged. They do however ubderwrite on previous experience etc...ie the premium will be higher where the proposer/driver has less experience. I have been looking to set up a scheme for P1 owners...with Independent...so far 2 on the books (provisionally) mine and a clients....both circa £750.00.

Anyway, enough waffle...P1 for me...can't wait!!.

Cheers

Rum

Jonathan

Seem to be agreeing with Mr Otway too much these days

95% of the post I agree with.

You will however notice the lack of reference by myself to depreciation. My only point is that I change my cars so often, that the more it loses the harder it is to change as often.

Anyone taking Mr Otway up on his book on the P1 would be advised not to put a date in 2001 forward

I would also agree with Mark on the fact that there is a big gulf between a std UK Turbo and an STI (performance wise). Driving the MY00 at the moment - Im slighty frustrated. It lacks the kick in the back I liked so much in my STI and RB5. As I said earlier in the thread the RB5 with PP has been the best packaged Scooby to date. Combined with a new exhaust system it was IMHO the equal power wise of the STI, but handled better. I think that the 17" alloys with P Zero's make a big difference. The MY00 doesnt feel anywhere near as nice. If I was keeping the MY00 it would get its wheels upgraded, ECU upgrade, downpipe/exhaust system.

At the end of it do as Mark says. Drive it dont beleive the hype EVO, STI or P1. I read a magazine once and bought a Vectra GSI - enough said.

Jonathan

jeremy

Help me out here guys. Is it not true that both the fellows at Evo and Autocar have slagged off the Evo 6 for not communicating its intentions at the limit of grip. For not indicating in a well telegraphed nor progressive manner, that indeed the car might be out of grip or the road out of space.

MarkO

It's a long and interesting discussion. The same old points are coming up - it's almost identical to the discussion that went on a year or so ago when the Evo 6 first came on the scene. Claims were made about the Evo being a faster, better sorted car, and how the STI was effectively dead. But, as we've seen none of this is really true.

I'm amused to see, yet again, that people who've owned/driven standard UK cars are comparing them to the Evo and then using that comparison as evidence that the P1 won't be anywhere near the Evo. Let me make it perfectly clear: if the only scoob you've driven is a standard UK car then it's not even worth commenting on how the Evo or STI or P1 compares to it. Despite what anyone might tell you, the Evo/STI are miles apart from the Turbo 2000. That's not to say they're necessarily quicker on a track, or down country lanes - as has been pointed out before, that has more to do with driver skill/bravery/stupidity. But it still never fails to amuse me when I see a comment claiming that the Evo is miles ahead of the scoob, from somebody who's never been in an STI.

I've driven pretty much every model of Impreza there is (except the RB5 - and that's just a Prodrive 99), done a direct comparison with an Evo V, and I've ridden in an Evo VI (courtesy of Mr. Bolton, who still hasn't given me the keys yet - despite promising ). The difference between the cars is minimal. All of the claims made by journalists are totally exaggerated - there simply is not the performance 'gulf' that is claimed by Evo, Autocar and all of the others. I suspect the P1 will turn out to be a kindof hybrid between the Prodrive-suspensioned cars and the STI, giving the rock-solid handling which, on occasion, I still miss from my Prodrive 96 car, and the incredible power punch of the Type-R engine & gearing. I have no doubt that the car will be excellent, but I still find it hard to believe that it will be so significantly different that I'll get the urge to 'dump' the STI and rush out and order a P1.

I particularly like the comments in these sorts of threads about such trivial things as fuel tank size, servicing costs/intervals and depreciation - the latter especially, eh, Jonathan? The fact is that nobody who buys an Evo, STI or P1 (or even, I would hazard a guess, a UK Turbo) really actually cares about any of these things. Let's be totally frank here: if you were really bothered about whether you had to fill the car up every 3 days or every 4, you'd buy a Vectra and fill it up once every 10 days instead. Want cheap servicing? Buy a Micra or a Mondeo. And if you want an investment, go and buy an investment trust (or whatever) - as has been said countless times, there's nothing that falls faster than new car values. Basically, these cars lose value hand over fist, drink petrol like there's no tomorrow, and cost a small fortune to keep tuned and healthy. But that's the price you pay for being quicker than most £100k cars on the road. Ever noticed a Ferrari review that complains about fuel economy or servicing costs? No - yet on a country road it'd be our cars leading the way. And as for insurance - who, exactly, expects to get cheap insurance on cars which we bought because magazine reviews described them as weapons....?

Basically, as has been mentioned briefly already, the real choice between these cars is down to personal preference. Some people like the looks of the Evo, some people think it looks like something from Star Wars. Others say the Impreza's too boxy. Jonathan doesn't like Sonic Blue, but has ordered a P1 anyway (out of interest, I may open a book on how long he'll keep this one - let me know if you fancy a flutter ). Bolton claims that frameless windows mean no wind noise, but I think they're much cooler - and, like with a convertible, it's a price worth paying. Some people like the tinted windows and rear-wheel bias of the Scoob Type-R/P1, others say it's not grippy enough and that the car looks like it belongs to a pimp (and then proceed to get their Evo windows tinted anyway...). Some people prefer the sound of the boxer engine, others say the Evo sounds better.

The fact is, it's down to personal preference. I bought my STI V Type-R because I wanted a coupe (like the rally ones), I liked the extra toys to play with, I enjoyed the rear bias of the diff set-up, and I loved the power, sound and feel of the Impreza engine. I could have bought an Evo, but after driving the V I just didn't like the overall feel of the car and I just don't like the looks. I could have (just) bought a nearly-new Skyline, but there's something about it which I don't like, despite having never driven one (it's too big, for a start). I could have bought a Prodrive 99MY UK car, but I got bored waiting for my order to come through, and hadn't been impressed with previous Prodrive cars I'd driven. I could have kept my old car, put a boost controller, Brembos and so on onto it, but I wanted something newer and different. I could have bought a Porsche or a TVR, but I love the Impreza, and everything that goes with it (club and all). I think the decision of whether to buy a P1 or Evo comes down to all these things.

I look forward to having a go in the new Impreza, but I think there will be little between the P1 and Evo VI on the road or track - there's a small enough gap between all of the various Impreza and Evo models already. Relative to anything else they are awesome (try driving a Ford Focus for 6-8 weeks if you don't believe me ), so it comes down to the feel of the car - drive 'em both, and see which you like best. Even looks aren't vital - remember that for most of the time you're enjoying the car, the only bit you'll see of the exterior is the various lumps on the bonnet (be it scoop or air-vent), and perhaps the rear spoiler on odd occasions to look at the Ferrari or Porker you've just passed.

Oh, and as for all the magazine reviews, ignore them. Forget everything you've ever heard about the STI, Evo or P1 in a magazine or on TV. Remember - it's you who's got to drive the car for the next year or two (month or two in Jonathan's case ), not the journalist. In fact, most journos (excluding, perhaps, the evo crowd) probably won't drive the P1 again after the initial excitement of the first cars becoming available. If you were choosing this car with your head, you'd have bought a Mondeo already - so just leave the decision-making to the heart. It knows best - believe me....

sunilp

Forget all that crap and buy a Boxster S