Trout...

Watch out - David Wallis will be here shortly with a DIY Handbag Thread - although he finds it hard to sew with his fractured metacarpel

Trout

PS Get well soon David
PPS Time for a Link ECUTEK shootout - just name the time and the place and I will be there

john banks

Give me a turbo bigger than my handbag then

Pavlo

trout has one for sale you can buy

john banks

The one I have got can be fettled if I get bored. But will it be bigger than the handbag?

Sam Elassar

evening ladies

are we back tracking now then JB

so the link is not that bad and we are not all going to blow up then.

and that is what i have said all along get a proper lambda sensor and don't rely on customers dodgy lambdas!

at the end of the day you are the most expensive mapper in the UK!

350£ for a car that takes you 4 hours! that more expensive than motec and gems for a days work. usually 1/2 a day is only 175-200£



sam
ps this is a good thread so please keep teh hand bags away

Andy.F

Trout > Tomorrow - Sunday 25th Aug at Star performances newly calibrated state of the art rolling road All link'd cars welcome to come and get a thrashing from a std JECS ECU

Sam - Give it a rest, I've been in JB's car and a similar spec vf23/link car which YOU mapped, I logged them both on the AP22, JB's car had a solid 15 bhp more throughout the range at exactly the same boost...........You get what you pay for

EvilBevel

Erm...

Sam, can I point out a couple of points/ask a few questions ?

1) could you please tell me what my hidden agenda is ? (we all have one on scoobynet, so I'm dying to hear mine)

2) have you ever seen a post from JB saying something negative about the Link setup ?

3) could you explain why it is dangerous to map a JECS car on a narrow band lambda sensor ? (I would understand if you talk about Link/GEMS/MoTEC etc)

The only danger I see is to come up with a car that still overfuels. Other than that, I would really like to hear why it is so bad.

I realize you know JB and you are both in the same profession etc... and there's a lot of "banter", but this is a public BBS, you are basically calling him a "fraud", and I still hate to be tarred with a very broad brush for having a hidden agenda.

Ta

Theo

john banks

Sam, this was never a Link bashing thread it was sharing some interesting findings and there have been some helpful suggestions. I don't see much backtracking - look at the title of the thread which freely admits there are issues with MAF based mapping. There are benefits too. I think anyone would agree that the Link is lacking in the knock control and diagnostic features of the OEM ECU. In saying that you could not get more performance with a Link with the same safety I am saying that there is a compromise between timing, boost, fuelling and safety. Simple as that.

On the issue of price you may consider that I am actually charging the lowest prices in the UK for Ecutek work through various offers which I have prolonged which have given a 20% discount on work from a price which is set centrally as part of my agreement with Ecutek. You will note also that I am presently custom remapping for the standard price of an off the shelf map, and I am charging less than most Superchips dealers. In addition, I on average see a car for more than one visit, and several owners are returning for revisions to their maps as they add more components - which I am not charging further for. Also I am not charging at all if someone doesn't like the result at the end of a mapping session.

Also, because I am not supplying hardware does not mean there are not costs. If you offer services to map an aftermarket ECU then all your takings are for your services since the hardware is already purchased.

Perhaps it is easy to forget the considerable investment in time and intellectual property that Ecutek brings with it, which is partly recovered by Ecutek by charging a mapper for the system. There is an upfront and ongoing investment in software rather than hardware.

I'll be completely frank - I am making considerably less per hour after costs out of mapping than I do from my day job - like half as much - at the beginning a considerable investment in time and finances without promise of results. Certainly it is not a money spinner, but I really enjoy it. A large reason for doing it initially was to get the software for my own car, which you could say I consider is my main perk

I don't like being called a fraud when I patently am not, and if my customers thought that I would recoil in horror and give up tomorrow.

[Edited by john banks - 8/25/2002 12:07:08 AM]

teknopete

T u got me m8 (puts rod away )

It`s almost true about best figures if it`s the bhp only thats being taken into acount The actual best all round figures from memory were at the Evo day on 28/04/02 where PAW was up, torque was up and bhp was slightly (about 17bhp) down.
The 1/4 mile thing is completely incorrect though, as u know the transmission and I don`t get on and after 5 gboxes I decided not to launch, as transferring the full whack in a 1er was doing 1 of 2 things either destroying the box or spinning all 4 wheels both of which are not good. Even without launching I am still pulling high 12s 1/4`s, when i even bother so a slight case of duff gen there m8 thinks me Dunno if it`s a good guide but was pulling 126mph up the pit straight in the wet at KH on the 20th

Anyway off for some zeds got 2 go do some pix L8r 2day

Pete

Sam Elassar

please don't miss understand me this is a very interesting debate, freedom of speech and all that. alot of people are looking at this thread with interest

andyF, don't understand what you are talking about it. surely JB's car had the all singing all dancing Mark A turbo which should be bigger than a vf23 and also had an aftermarket manifold?! are we taking the same car


evilbevel.
don't understand that me and JB are in the same profession thing. i am a dentist and his a medical practictioner. plus he is an ecutek delear. i am not a mapper of any sort, i have mapped 6-8cars most of which were favours for friends of mine. ! so your point is?!
i have not ever called JB a fruad. why should i say that. JB has always managed to promote his product in every possible post. he has had a dig once or twice about a car i mapped and it detted over at the rollers with out asking me or the owner why did it det?!.

i know i am in a no win situation here. i don't own a scoob any more, and i have an evo now. that kind of makes me an enemy probably. and after that i come and have a debate or an argument about how you guys do things. how dare i!.

i think this is becoming a bit pointless, now that you are a well paid sandle wearing ecutek guru can you please ask what you should do with your next car ( and with your car for that matter?! ) as you are a professional now. don't remember seeing any mapper or tuner come to this forum and ask for advice about their job. and please stop making digs about other ecus.

at the end of the day, it would have taken you a month to map me car with the mods it has got! due to the lack of real time mapping with ecutek.

again i never called any one a fruad. all i said if any one wants to charge big money to map cars, they should do their cars properly. which means det cans and wideband to me. but this is my own opinion.

so far i have had cars mapped by, bob r, motec mick and steve simpson. all were different in the way they did things. but all used some sort of det cans. most used a wide band. some of these mappers have mapped rally cars in the uk, europe, america and canada.

sam
ps if i awake up in time i probably see you tomorrow anyway

john banks

I have responded to all your objections as best I can. It did not turn into one ECU vs other ECU bashing thread except by your doing. The purpose of this thread was advertising? No it was sharing an odd problem that was happening with a STANDARD car which has been interesting to some and has enabled experience to be shared, and yes I have learned something too. What is wrong with that? At least it is helping to keep up some technical content on Scoobynet, which are a lot of people say they appreciate, even if I do not have the experience of some more senior members. However, having now mapped about 25 cars I have built up some experience which I hope can be useful?

I think the issue away back about a car detting on the rollers was the question of whether a Dawes was safe or not with the standard ECU, and I pointed out that it seemed at least as safe as some remapped cars IIRC? Any remapped ECU could det on the rollers - and that is the point - the more you go away from Subaru's standard boost, fuelling and timing, the more likely you are to get an adverse situation where detonation can start to occur. You are trading safety for performance. It is keeping that balance sensible.

It seems you have a number of issues with me personally which it would be nice to discuss. But if you expect me to agree with you on everything you will be disappointed. None of us can be right all the time, or seemingly win at everything all the time (except possibly Andy F?). How about accepting that gracefully and not getting quite so aggressive about it all?

dowser

Hmmm - just caught up I sincerely hope that next time John comes across something wierd, he still posts about it.....

I don't understand the stick, I thought the post was about an under-reading MAF. If anyone's got issues with anything else, maybe raise a new thread

If the MAF wiring checks out OK, then it must be a leak post MAF but pre turbo (as already mentioned). I, for one, am very interested in the outcome.

Richard

john banks

Well Iain had tightened up a few loose pipes on the inlet area. We still found the under-read. On the rolling road it was running 15.8 PSI midrange (17 PSI on the road) and gave only 220 BHP (only other mod SS BB, Star RR tends to give standard cars standard results) but did not det. Needs some more work, and probably also a decat and more boost to get better power figures.

On the other hand it is not the map (or the mapper!?! here is me all defensive now!) since a decat car with a similar Tek 2.5 and Dawes got about 178 BHP at the wheels and 272 BHP flywheel which I think is a TD04L record for Star Performance (however that was after swapping to an intercooler without a hole in it!).

EvilBevel

Right... waited 12 hours before posting. ("count to 10" )

Sory Sam, I thought you and JB were friends, my mistake. My only point was that I HOPED you'd be friends, and it was just medical scottish dudes banter.

Alas I was wrong.

You are just spouting paranoid crap, and I don't like it one bit.

Clear ?

Do I have to post my 3 very permanent questions again, or were they not clear in any way ?

You sir are a paranoid **** ("I'm driving an Evo now") and next time you want to insult me (we all have an agenda, right ?) you better come up with more substance.

I thank you ... not.

Theo (still searching for his hidden agenda)

PS: surprise me and tell me WHY we all need wide band sensors.

John, fraud or not, keep posting

Sam Elassar

theo
shut it bitch. this is between me and JB .


sam

Andy.F

Theo, Sam may come second at most things but when it comes to arrogance......... he's No 1

iainalpine

EVILBEVEL, i see your living up to your name. this thread started with a simple question from JB which people have passed on ideas on how and what to look for to fix the fault of a under reading MAF sensor.the most arrogance i have seen yet is from YOU. since this is about my car i feel i can say this - keep your thoughts to yourself as i think YOU are a SMALL MINDED LITTLE ****.

iainalpine

a big thanks to pete for running the rolling road day and to evryone that passed on advice to myself. hope to catch up with you all in the near future
iain

Pavlo

Rolling road day results anywhere?

P

EvilBevel

Oi Iain, bawheid ... I live up to my name, sure, every ****ing time. I also know more about MAF sensors then you'll ever know about your detting car, this place, the universe... live with it.

And yes, this is a small world, and I'm sure we'll meet

Sam, OK, in that case I'll keep out, I probably got all the hidden agenda's wrong

PS: bitch seems to be a popular word on MLR

iainalpine

i see the truth hurts. and you are right about 1 thing. it is a small world

[Edited by iainalpine - 8/25/2002 10:14:07 PM]

EvilBevel

>>i see the truth hurts.

erm... are you reading the same words than I do ???? Yer brain seems to be detting as well ?

Bring it on

PS: what where your numbers on the RR ? IQ 34 ?

Edit: or did the printout say "greeting wee blawjaws" ?

[Edited by EvilBevel - 8/25/2002 10:26:15 PM]

AlanG

well....yes. He did.

iainalpine

EVILBEVEL,
you reactions are almost child like. are you sure your old enough to be on here. i here mummy calling you, "BED TIME".

[Edited by iainalpine - 8/25/2002 10:42:20 PM]

EvilBevel

Yeah, and "Yer maw's a man".

I can see you are outwitted. Give it a rest son

Sam Elassar

@alan

EvilBevel

Alan, fair enough, but I wouldn't call that "slagging the link".

As an aside, knowing JB, he'll probably have a Link before the end of the year anyway

I can't judge the lack of knock control on the Link (or the fact that a well tuned car needs one even). The rest seems to be correct ?

The MAF has a few advantages, and if you ever read previous posts of mine, quite a few disadvantages. The fragility of the MY99/00 ones are enough to drive me to a Link, unless someone comes up with a sturdier one & a fix to make it work with the JECS.

Sam Elassar

you can get very good idle, cruise etc with the link if mapped properly. i would say that my linked subaru was much smoother than standard!

[Edited by Sam Elassar - 8/25/2002 11:10:01 PM]

AlanG

Hi Theo

JB will be the first to say that there's no one ECU better than the other, but his post did put it down over the Ecutek.

My thoughts are that potential buyers may be put off going for a Link ECU which has shown in the past to be just as capable as others with regards to results. It all depends on how the car is mapped with it.
I've ran my car for about 3 years or so with the Link. I know it's limitations, but has been ideal for my circumstances.

A

EvilBevel

Sam, Alan,

I don't doubt that you can have a smooth idle etc with the Link... which partially (mainly ?) down to Bob R. I think.

To be honest... I never read much negative stuff about the Link on here. It seems to be a "proven" technology now provided BRD is on the case.