Pace FMIC : first impressions ...
30 August 2002, 02:04 PM
#31
0.9v on factory lambda is fine.
Painting the intercooler matt black would help a little if you were stationary. But with forced convection cooling, you might lose about 2% heat through radiation. Painting also adds a thin layer of insulation.
Very fine shotblast of the original intercooler will help, as it will increase surface area.
If you were to blacked the intercooler, it would also absord heat more easily from hotter surrounding parts.
Paul
Painting the intercooler matt black would help a little if you were stationary. But with forced convection cooling, you might lose about 2% heat through radiation. Painting also adds a thin layer of insulation.
Very fine shotblast of the original intercooler will help, as it will increase surface area.
If you were to blacked the intercooler, it would also absord heat more easily from hotter surrounding parts.
Paul
30 August 2002, 02:26 PM
#33
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since when is albedo only related to planetry objects?
Everything has a relevant coefficient of reflectivity, I would have thought under the bonnet, shiny black would be the best bet.
infact scrap that, as shiny black would stop interior heat from radiating away.
Hence my next plan of fitting carbon fibre pipework.
Andy,
you are of course correct in that the conductivity of the ally does nothing for its radiating ability, except perhaps that it can replenish heat flost from the surface quicker than a lesser conducting metal, but am sure this would be insignificant compared with the the only slightly worse conductivity of another metal.
Aluminium is dull though which should help it radiate, compraed with say, shiny chrome!
must sort out my typing.
[Edited by Adam M - 8/30/2002 2:48:38 PM]
Everything has a relevant coefficient of reflectivity, I would have thought under the bonnet, shiny black would be the best bet.
infact scrap that, as shiny black would stop interior heat from radiating away.
Hence my next plan of fitting carbon fibre pipework.
Andy,
you are of course correct in that the conductivity of the ally does nothing for its radiating ability, except perhaps that it can replenish heat flost from the surface quicker than a lesser conducting metal, but am sure this would be insignificant compared with the the only slightly worse conductivity of another metal.
Aluminium is dull though which should help it radiate, compraed with say, shiny chrome!
must sort out my typing.
[Edited by Adam M - 8/30/2002 2:48:38 PM]
30 August 2002, 03:39 PM
#34
you want a shiney pipe if it's cooler than surrounding objects to prevent heat absorbtion.
Matt pipe if it's hot in cold surroundings.
(if in direct sunlight, the sun is one of those objects)
Matt black paint can have emissivity =1, but matt white paint can have emissivity of 0.989 when talking about infared from something other than the sun (5500k, smaller wavelenth).
If but if you put the same 2 painted surfaces in the sun, you are probably looking at E=1 for matt black, and maybe 0.5 for matt white, 0.1 gloss white, 0.02 polished Al.
Radiation heatshield has an effectiveness of about 0.5*emissivity so even a matt black one would half the radiated heat (it would absorb 100% of raditiated heat, and reject 50% each way.
it's all bowlocks really
bit of lagging for insulation, bit of glossy hi-temp tape on the outside, Al foil would be a good start, and would keep the lagging on.
Paul
Matt pipe if it's hot in cold surroundings.
(if in direct sunlight, the sun is one of those objects)
Matt black paint can have emissivity =1, but matt white paint can have emissivity of 0.989 when talking about infared from something other than the sun (5500k, smaller wavelenth).
If but if you put the same 2 painted surfaces in the sun, you are probably looking at E=1 for matt black, and maybe 0.5 for matt white, 0.1 gloss white, 0.02 polished Al.
Radiation heatshield has an effectiveness of about 0.5*emissivity so even a matt black one would half the radiated heat (it would absorb 100% of raditiated heat, and reject 50% each way.
it's all bowlocks really
bit of lagging for insulation, bit of glossy hi-temp tape on the outside, Al foil would be a good start, and would keep the lagging on.
Paul
30 August 2002, 04:27 PM
#35
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David, yeah, I wasn't sure of the name when I posted it.
What's it called then: standing in front of car, looking at engine, bottom left, a black cap with a protuding round surface on it ?
As seen on your on picture : middle of pic, at the bottom of pic
[Edited by EvilBevel - 8/30/2002 4:29:29 PM]
What's it called then: standing in front of car, looking at engine, bottom left, a black cap with a protuding round surface on it ?
As seen on your on picture : middle of pic, at the bottom of pic
[Edited by EvilBevel - 8/30/2002 4:29:29 PM]
30 August 2002, 05:26 PM
#36
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Re. lambda values.
I'm not sure if you have fitted or measured the AFR with a wideband O2, but that's what you should be doing.
0.89 lambda is 13:1 AFR. That's the AFR where the engine performance is optimum. Above that value, you are running lean.
On a turbocharged car, you should be targeting for a richer mixture like 11.5:1. What did the knock sensor indicate? And at what rpm did you get that value?
I'm not sure if you have fitted or measured the AFR with a wideband O2, but that's what you should be doing.
0.89 lambda is 13:1 AFR. That's the AFR where the engine performance is optimum. Above that value, you are running lean.
On a turbocharged car, you should be targeting for a richer mixture like 11.5:1. What did the knock sensor indicate? And at what rpm did you get that value?
30 August 2002, 06:05 PM
#38
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Lambda- AFR ( Not Lambda voltages. )
0.686 10.08
0.696 10.23
0.706 10.38
0.716 10.53
0.727 10.69
0.739 10.86
0.750 11.03
0.762 11.20
0.774 11.38
0.787 11.57
0.800 11.76
0.814 11.96
0.828 12.17
0.842 12.38
0.857 12.60
0.873 12.83
0.889 13.07
0.905 13.31
0.923 13.57
0.941 13.84
0.960 14.11
0.980 14.40
1.037 15.25
1.078 15.84
1.121 16.48
1.169 17.18
1.220 17.93
1.276 18.76
1.337 19.66
1.405 20.66
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 8/30/2002 6:06:02 PM]
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 8/30/2002 6:06:58 PM]
0.686 10.08
0.696 10.23
0.706 10.38
0.716 10.53
0.727 10.69
0.739 10.86
0.750 11.03
0.762 11.20
0.774 11.38
0.787 11.57
0.800 11.76
0.814 11.96
0.828 12.17
0.842 12.38
0.857 12.60
0.873 12.83
0.889 13.07
0.905 13.31
0.923 13.57
0.941 13.84
0.960 14.11
0.980 14.40
1.037 15.25
1.078 15.84
1.121 16.48
1.169 17.18
1.220 17.93
1.276 18.76
1.337 19.66
1.405 20.66
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 8/30/2002 6:06:02 PM]
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 8/30/2002 6:06:58 PM]
30 August 2002, 06:31 PM
#39
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Sorry for the ruck guys, but ...
Claudius, read this carefully.
This is ultimate proof to me that you have no clue at all.
Which would not be a problem if you asked questions, but is a bit of a problem when posing like a knowitall, considering all other people as having the brains of a snail (garlic an option).
0.9 volts equals 9%CO roughly, and is like, way, fvcking, rich. It's also about 11 to one BTW... It's like wearing a diaper in a car... Guys like Andy or R19cket will **** their pants when they read I run soooo rich, and will never respect me again
You don't understand diffs or RWD, you call Torsen diffs "old technology", you don't understand lambda values, still you constantly want to pose as an expert (even on dentistry)... and you clearly are not.
**** off my thread OK ? I ignored you 5 times now, I exposed you as a fake (with a testosterone/brain ratio of 11/1) before, so please try to take a hint.
0.9 volts on my feeble sensor is higher in real life (you did know they start to underread once EGT's are up to normal levels, right ? There are even graphs about just how much they start to underread BTW), and you don't need a friggin wideband to know that. I suddenly realise this is something of an MLR myth BTW...
PS: do you still have one of those "old tech" TorSen diffs on yer car ? I bloody hope so ...
Ask a question if you are not sure... it's how communication works. Not the "see how pathetic a joke of a human being I'm trying to be, but I'm from France" stance.
Just fvck off. I don't like you.
Claudius, read this carefully.
This is ultimate proof to me that you have no clue at all.
Which would not be a problem if you asked questions, but is a bit of a problem when posing like a knowitall, considering all other people as having the brains of a snail (garlic an option).
0.9 volts equals 9%CO roughly, and is like, way, fvcking, rich. It's also about 11 to one BTW... It's like wearing a diaper in a car... Guys like Andy or R19cket will **** their pants when they read I run soooo rich, and will never respect me again
You don't understand diffs or RWD, you call Torsen diffs "old technology", you don't understand lambda values, still you constantly want to pose as an expert (even on dentistry)... and you clearly are not.
**** off my thread OK ? I ignored you 5 times now, I exposed you as a fake (with a testosterone/brain ratio of 11/1) before, so please try to take a hint.
0.9 volts on my feeble sensor is higher in real life (you did know they start to underread once EGT's are up to normal levels, right ? There are even graphs about just how much they start to underread BTW), and you don't need a friggin wideband to know that. I suddenly realise this is something of an MLR myth BTW...
PS: do you still have one of those "old tech" TorSen diffs on yer car ? I bloody hope so ...
Ask a question if you are not sure... it's how communication works. Not the "see how pathetic a joke of a human being I'm trying to be, but I'm from France" stance.
Just fvck off. I don't like you.
30 August 2002, 09:09 PM
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EB, "left upper aclusal" 
Looks like you reached the same conclusion re temps...I am well pleased with what Mole and I achieved
I was really amazed at the intake temps when idle, traffic lights and at petrol station....just goes up and up!
A few 'squirts' of super duper home made ic spray soon gets it back on track!!!
Adam, was that your 22B that the Pace was developed on?
I am still (not knowing a lot about these things), a little concerned over fuelling on part throttle...my reason for saying this is that on my 'bar LED' AFR at, say 100mph shows 'green/amber' until I put a wee bit more pedal on and start to boost, then it will progress to 'red red red'.
When I was on the rr last, the man Merve the Swerve said fuelling was fine! (fine as in ok not on the limit!)
Anyone tell me if they consider that behaviour (AFR) normal?
Cheers.
Looks like you reached the same conclusion re temps...I am well pleased with what Mole and I achieved
I was really amazed at the intake temps when idle, traffic lights and at petrol station....just goes up and up!
A few 'squirts' of super duper home made ic spray
soon gets it back on track!!!Adam, was that your 22B that the Pace was developed on?
I am still (not knowing a lot about these things), a little concerned over fuelling on part throttle...my reason for saying this is that on my 'bar LED' AFR at, say 100mph shows 'green/amber' until I put a wee bit more pedal on and start to boost, then it will progress to 'red red red'.
When I was on the rr last, the man Merve the Swerve said fuelling was fine! (fine as in ok not on the limit!)
Anyone tell me if they consider that behaviour (AFR) normal?
Cheers.
30 August 2002, 10:27 PM
#42
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MD... red red red... sounds like your AFR is fitted in reverse ? 
Red usually is used for stoich, amber for "power" , greens for "boost/rich" (> 5 % CO)
Stevie, to be more precise ...
[Edited by EvilBevel - 8/30/2002 10:28:26 PM]
Red usually is used for stoich, amber for "power" , greens for "boost/rich" (> 5 % CO)Stevie, to be more precise ...
[Edited by EvilBevel - 8/30/2002 10:28:26 PM]
31 August 2002, 12:32 PM
#44
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EB, sorry should have said...home made AFR using bar LED which would only 'fit' that way round....starts at amber thro' green into red, red being rich...at full tilt the last red LED is only just visible...around 8% we think.
Another thing I was going to mention, oil catch tank instead of the re-circ breather system oe.
I have found oil residue in my ic pipes lately, so it must be in my ic also
Next project in the saga I spose
Cheers all.
Can anyone answer the q on part throttle AFR ? (please)
[Edited by Moles Dad - 8/31/2002 12:38:33 PM]
Another thing I was going to mention, oil catch tank instead of the re-circ breather system oe.
I have found oil residue in my ic pipes lately, so it must be in my ic also
Next project in the saga I spose
Cheers all.
Can anyone answer the q on part throttle AFR ? (please)
[Edited by Moles Dad - 8/31/2002 12:38:33 PM]
31 August 2002, 12:41 PM
#45
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MD,
your fuelling does sound like it is doing what it is supposed to.
Yes the pace kit was developed on my 22B. They had it for three weeks, which at the time seemed like a life time. Now I have been wihtout my car for 7.5 months.
your fuelling does sound like it is doing what it is supposed to.
Yes the pace kit was developed on my 22B. They had it for three weeks, which at the time seemed like a life time. Now I have been wihtout my car for 7.5 months
.
) LOL
31 August 2002, 11:37 PM
#53
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Andy, no idea
Why would I need an alloy bloc? It would melt with all that power it's going to be making! No, wait, alloy blocs on scoobies dont melt (not enough power and torque), they blow (eg STI)
Do you know how many standard STIs in France have blown up already? (car launched 6 months ago) TWENTY SEVEN! LOL oops
Why would I need an alloy bloc? It would melt with all that power it's going to be making!
No, wait, alloy blocs on scoobies dont melt (not enough power and torque), they blow (eg STI) Do you know how many standard STIs in France have blown up already? (car launched 6 months ago) TWENTY SEVEN!
LOL oops
01 September 2002, 02:55 AM
#54
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Oi Evo boy...
My comment on page one was:
Now you try a poor come-back with:
So what, apart from being a ****, exactly is yer point ?
Give it up son, you are both outwitted & outsmarted. **** happens.
Go read some more vbulletin sourcecode or whatever...
Or was the "lol" offered as a peace offer ? I don't do those.
Theo
My comment on page one was:
If your Evo had a topmount instead of a fairly good FMIC, you might even do the same...
My car has a FMIC as standard.
(EB: ) LOL
(EB: ) LOL
Give it up son, you are both outwitted & outsmarted. **** happens.
Go read some more vbulletin sourcecode or whatever...
Or was the "lol" offered as a peace offer ? I don't do those.
Theo
01 September 2002, 03:01 AM
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Stevie, picture dark LOL, complaints should go to DIY man, also known as TIG dude lately I only circled the part
Paul, no not carbon canister, behind that, I think Stevie got it right. Anyway, not important unless you are a) from Pace or b) have a MY99/00 and considering a Pace FMIC
I only circled the part Paul, no not carbon canister, behind that, I think Stevie got it right. Anyway, not important unless you are a) from Pace or b) have a MY99/00 and considering a Pace FMIC
01 September 2002, 03:21 AM
#57
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And Claudius... you missed the small "v"... so what exactly did you think 0.9 under full boost stood for ? CO ? AFR ? Number of muppets ? Good god...
"Thanks Pavlo" Yeah ****... or how to try to retract gracefully from a total cockup right ?
0.9 ... WHAT exactly Claudius ? What did you think I meant ? You with the powers of constantly pointing posters towards their typos? You with the fast car & all the knowledge... WHAT exactly ? 0.9 ... albedo ? Like in the Vangelis song ? (OK, that was 0.39 )
Your turn. I call your bluff.
Theo [not holding my breath mind]
"Thanks Pavlo" Yeah ****... or how to try to retract gracefully from a total cockup right ?
0.9 ... WHAT exactly Claudius ? What did you think I meant ? You with the powers of constantly pointing posters towards their typos? You with the fast car & all the knowledge... WHAT exactly ? 0.9 ... albedo ? Like in the Vangelis song ? (OK, that was 0.39
) Your turn. I call your bluff.
Theo [not holding my breath mind]
01 September 2002, 02:17 PM
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Evilbaby
I have no idea what I did to you that pis sed you off so much.
The fact that you ask what I thought it meant just proves how ignorant YOU are.
I never pointed that out, just tried to help. I am vacating this thread and head off to more interesting debate where people thank you for help and ask questions, not where they flame you for answering or advising you.
I hope you get your engine management sorted soon and that your car doesnt blow up. Good luck.
I have no idea what I did to you that pis sed you off so much.
The fact that you ask what I thought it meant just proves how ignorant YOU are.
I never pointed that out, just tried to help. I am vacating this thread and head off to more interesting debate where people thank you for help and ask questions, not where they flame you for answering or advising you.
I hope you get your engine management sorted soon and that your car doesnt blow up. Good luck.
01 September 2002, 06:46 PM
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Oh, and Claudette... 0.9 WHAT exactly ? Did you read my question at all ? You haven't quoted it ???
Answers on a postcard.
You missed the small "v" apparently, but you miss ****loads of other stuff as well darling. I'm sure though you wanted to help me...
But then again, you are off to more "interesting" discussions right ?
I'll stop this now as it becomes painfully obvious how clueless you are. For all to see with an IQ above 40. Thanks & goodnight.
Answers on a postcard.
You missed the small "v" apparently, but you miss ****loads of other stuff as well darling. I'm sure though you wanted to help me...
But then again, you are off to more "interesting" discussions right ?
I'll stop this now as it becomes painfully obvious how clueless you are. For all to see with an IQ above 40. Thanks & goodnight.