Irag - To bomb or not?
16 September 2002, 05:07 PM
#121
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Where is this threat then? WHy has it only come to fruition now? As Bros2 has stated, he is no more of a threat now than he has been for the last 10 years. The fact that is may be able to develop a small nuclear weapon is irrelevant, CBW can be just as destructive, and he has had those for years, and the capabilty to deliver them.
My point is not that he is not a problem, but that this proposed war against Iraq is unjustified in the context that the US are using.
The fact that he gives money to Al Qaeda or Hamas or anybody else is not justification in itself. These people are funded from many sources, the biggest probably being ObL himself, he is disgustingly rich.
He may well give them weapons as well, but captured Al Qaeda personnel have already admitted that they have sought and procured means to develop and deliver CBW weapons from many sources, but still they go after Saddam.
OK, the guy's a tw@t and the world would undoubtedly be a better place without him, but that does not justify allowing the US to do whatever they wish.
If you follow your arguments, then the attacks of 11 sept are justified because the people who made them perceive the US as a threat because they have supported Israel for many decades.
My point is not that he is not a problem, but that this proposed war against Iraq is unjustified in the context that the US are using.
The fact that he gives money to Al Qaeda or Hamas or anybody else is not justification in itself. These people are funded from many sources, the biggest probably being ObL himself, he is disgustingly rich.
He may well give them weapons as well, but captured Al Qaeda personnel have already admitted that they have sought and procured means to develop and deliver CBW weapons from many sources, but still they go after Saddam.
OK, the guy's a tw@t and the world would undoubtedly be a better place without him, but that does not justify allowing the US to do whatever they wish.
If you follow your arguments, then the attacks of 11 sept are justified because the people who made them perceive the US as a threat because they have supported Israel for many decades.
16 September 2002, 05:12 PM
#122
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Geezer
we will have to agreed to disagree
Terrorism in Ireland ias wrong,
The Isreal/Arab situation is wrong
the Attack on th twin towers is wrong
Terrorism is Wrong!
This percieved threat needs to be delt with proactivly and not sit back until it becomes a ****-up, that is what good intelligence is all about.
Waiting ten years or however many is not the issue. the issue is to deal with the threat as and when.
War sucks but sometimes it is the only answer!
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/16/2002 5:14:53 PM]
we will have to agreed to disagree
Terrorism in Ireland ias wrong,
The Isreal/Arab situation is wrong
the Attack on th twin towers is wrong
Terrorism is Wrong!
This percieved threat needs to be delt with proactivly and not sit back until it becomes a ****-up, that is what good intelligence is all about.
Waiting ten years or however many is not the issue. the issue is to deal with the threat as and when.
War sucks but sometimes it is the only answer!
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/16/2002 5:14:53 PM]
16 September 2002, 05:14 PM
#123
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geezer - i admire your tenacity but this is just plain depressing :-)
other states supplying/sponsoring fundamemtalist terrorists? yes: syria, iran, somalia, yemen. and they're next, a fact made clear by the content and tone of US state department policy post 9/11. BUT, they aren't priority. iraq is.
regarding the IRA - since 9/11 and the FARC/IRA incident in Colombia, the IRA has become an outlawed operation in the US. Noraid is at last under a lot of pressure from the US state department. sinn fein has become like a fart in a lift. no more presidential photo calls for gerry adams. long overdue, but they've finally woken up to that one.
directly threatened?? come on man, think!! do you not feel threatened by a regime that not only has the wherewithall to cause great harm to us through terrorism, but also the inclination? direct or otherwise?
how do you work out that this whole situation is a creation of the americans? for god's sake, if we'd collectively been allowed to finish the job in 91 by the UN, we wouldn't be in this position.
this is the creation of the UN: they have failed miserably for 10 years to enforce every single one of the 16 resolutions that formed the basis of saddam's withdrawal from kuwait. now it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.
nothing like the 30s? christ alive, he's even got a ridiculous moutache and has modelled his organisation of state on stalin's russia (read Koba the Dread by Martin Amis).
dragged down by the US? i think you underestimate our collective capability to sort things out when we put our minds to it. and our collective moral responsibility. shame it always takes so long.
other states supplying/sponsoring fundamemtalist terrorists? yes: syria, iran, somalia, yemen. and they're next, a fact made clear by the content and tone of US state department policy post 9/11. BUT, they aren't priority. iraq is.
regarding the IRA - since 9/11 and the FARC/IRA incident in Colombia, the IRA has become an outlawed operation in the US. Noraid is at last under a lot of pressure from the US state department. sinn fein has become like a fart in a lift. no more presidential photo calls for gerry adams. long overdue, but they've finally woken up to that one.
directly threatened?? come on man, think!! do you not feel threatened by a regime that not only has the wherewithall to cause great harm to us through terrorism, but also the inclination? direct or otherwise?
how do you work out that this whole situation is a creation of the americans? for god's sake, if we'd collectively been allowed to finish the job in 91 by the UN, we wouldn't be in this position.
this is the creation of the UN: they have failed miserably for 10 years to enforce every single one of the 16 resolutions that formed the basis of saddam's withdrawal from kuwait. now it's time to sh*t or get off the pot.
nothing like the 30s? christ alive, he's even got a ridiculous moutache and has modelled his organisation of state on stalin's russia (read Koba the Dread by Martin Amis).
dragged down by the US? i think you underestimate our collective capability to sort things out when we put our minds to it. and our collective moral responsibility. shame it always takes so long.
16 September 2002, 05:23 PM
#124
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Skipjack please read the posts, the US supported this guy during the Iran/Iraq war. They also pumped plenty of aid into the Afghan rebels in the 80s, where bin Laden and his cronies flourished.
Geezer
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16 September 2002, 05:30 PM
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trying to keep up with this one ... your logic is unravelling faster than my nan's knitting.
the US is not "doing whatever it wants to"? what planet do you live on? did you hear bush's speech to the UN last week? have you read a broadsheet today with regard to saudi arabia considering allowing coalition forces access to bases?
christ, i'm off for a cup of tea and a *** ...
the US is not "doing whatever it wants to"? what planet do you live on? did you hear bush's speech to the UN last week? have you read a broadsheet today with regard to saudi arabia considering allowing coalition forces access to bases?
christ, i'm off for a cup of tea and a *** ...
16 September 2002, 05:30 PM
#126
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Geezer
Agreed The Americans did pump money/arms/aid into these regiems during the 80's A lot oif Americans ploughed money into Noraid as well. Not the right thing to do and now we/they are paying the price. Learn form your mistakes and move onwards and upwards
It does not change much, the threat is real and need dealing with.
What its the answer, just to sit back say "well it's our own fault" and let Saddam get on with it to teach us a lesson, not me.
Agreed The Americans did pump money/arms/aid into these regiems during the 80's A lot oif Americans ploughed money into Noraid as well. Not the right thing to do and now we/they are paying the price. Learn form your mistakes and move onwards and upwards
It does not change much, the threat is real and need dealing with.
What its the answer, just to sit back say "well it's our own fault" and let Saddam get on with it to teach us a lesson, not me.
16 September 2002, 05:35 PM
#127
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i'm with mr hapgood.
duh! that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. when the world was different, there was a cold war, a thing called the USSR and no scoobynet.
geezer stop living in the past. we are dealing with Now not Then. it might as well have been the 1880s for all it helps.
duh! that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. when the world was different, there was a cold war, a thing called the USSR and no scoobynet.
geezer stop living in the past. we are dealing with Now not Then. it might as well have been the 1880s for all it helps.
09 November 2002, 09:10 AM
#130
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give me one example when the UN has intervened and sorted things out for the better since its formation after WW2?
.....and if they didn't at least they tried.
UN......do they actually do anything?
[Edited by paulr - 9/11/2002 9:31:51 AM]
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