Sccoby beats this and that?
17 September 2002, 01:44 PM
#31
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by the way..if anyone who has taken the attagonistic approach to moths post...I will happily let Moth (as long as we have a quick discussion about you ex racing driver creds!!
) take my WRX on a track and watch how my tired old wagon performs against a modded scoob...be interesting to see the driver difference...
Moth please tell me that you stopped racing cause 5 cars crashed in one race was the sign you to took to quit..rofl
) take my WRX on a track and watch how my tired old wagon performs against a modded scoob...be interesting to see the driver difference...Moth please tell me that you stopped racing cause 5 cars crashed in one race was the sign you to took to quit..rofl
17 September 2002, 01:45 PM
#32
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Quote by johnfelstead
I understand what Moth was saying, re boy racers, but his first post shows the arogance of an ex racer, a lot of them (not saying moth is one of them) are up their own **** and could do with a bit of modesty in a first post.
Hmm. Is this aimed at me or not then? One you say "not saying moth is one of them" in the next breath you are by implying that I'm up my own **** and could do with a bit of modesty in a first post?
My first post was aimed that the boy racers? Not people (of I believe)your caliper. I have explained that I should of worded it better to hopefully not offend Good Scooby drivers.
I understand what Moth was saying, re boy racers, but his first post shows the arogance of an ex racer, a lot of them (not saying moth is one of them) are up their own **** and could do with a bit of modesty in a first post.
Hmm. Is this aimed at me or not then? One you say "not saying moth is one of them" in the next breath you are by implying that I'm up my own **** and could do with a bit of modesty in a first post?
My first post was aimed that the boy racers? Not people (of I believe)your caliper. I have explained that I should of worded it better to hopefully not offend Good Scooby drivers.
17 September 2002, 01:48 PM
#33
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Quote by TAZMAN
by the way..if anyone who has taken the attagonistic approach to moths post...
Dosn't anyone read posts? I did not mean to offend anyone other than the boy racers. I'm sorry.
As your getting so upset by it are you guilty of it in some way?
by the way..if anyone who has taken the attagonistic approach to moths post...
Dosn't anyone read posts? I did not mean to offend anyone other than the boy racers. I'm sorry.
As your getting so upset by it are you guilty of it in some way?
17 September 2002, 01:49 PM
#34
i dont know if you are up your own **** yet, you could be based on your first post. Then again, maybe you arent based on later comments. I reserve judegment. 
leave my brake calipers out of it!
LOL
leave my brake calipers out of it!
LOL
17 September 2002, 02:04 PM
#38
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My racing and test days are long gone now. I sometimes meet up with old friends for a day out once in a while. Still good fun but very rusty and embarrassing now compared to the good 'ol days.
17 September 2002, 02:20 PM
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It was all during the 80's........ I know, I know... old codger!
Spent a year in France, single seaters, in the Renault Elf Cup
Bit of Rallycross in 6R4 Metro, only about 6 races, filling a gap.
Lots of those........ Tuscan challenge most recent etc..many other different ones during the 80's.
Guess it was just the depression of the 80's and found myself doing more testing days. Did a time at silk Cut Jag hoping to for fill my dream at Le Mans but it never came off. Best one was probably testing the now old Lotus Carlton.
Sometimes I can talk about it all forever, others I hate to even mention it or think about it. It wasn't all good fun.
Spent a year in France, single seaters, in the Renault Elf Cup
Bit of Rallycross in 6R4 Metro, only about 6 races, filling a gap.
Lots of those........ Tuscan challenge most recent etc..many other different ones during the 80's.
Guess it was just the depression of the 80's and found myself doing more testing days. Did a time at silk Cut Jag hoping to for fill my dream at Le Mans but it never came off. Best one was probably testing the now old Lotus Carlton.
Sometimes I can talk about it all forever, others I hate to even mention it or think about it. It wasn't all good fun.
17 September 2002, 02:27 PM
#42
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I think it's a fair point Moth
To get a measure of abilities (relatively) go to a Scoob track day - only 10% ish of the Scoobs are being driven quickly - and some are being driven quickly badly.
God knows what some of those drivers are like when they're on the roads......
As to Brendan, you're spot on. Most people will agree you don't even have to be an average driver to get pace out of a Scoob - I remember a handling test - was a 355 and a 22b - 355 was 3 secs a lap quicker.......how many Scoob owners reckon they've "done" a 355. And don't even mention current 911s - they are MUCH quicker round a circuit.......But that's their territory.
To get a measure of abilities (relatively) go to a Scoob track day - only 10% ish of the Scoobs are being driven quickly - and some are being driven quickly badly.
God knows what some of those drivers are like when they're on the roads......
As to Brendan, you're spot on. Most people will agree you don't even have to be an average driver to get pace out of a Scoob - I remember a handling test - was a 355 and a 22b - 355 was 3 secs a lap quicker.......how many Scoob owners reckon they've "done" a 355. And don't even mention current 911s - they are MUCH quicker round a circuit.......But that's their territory.
17 September 2002, 02:32 PM
#43
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Ok just have to put in my pennies worth. I have recently bought my Subaru so am still in that "hazy glow" honeymoon period. Now I also like to think that I am quite grown up and sensible 90% of the time. However I do not deny that if the conditons are right i.e weather, road conditon, visibilty, traffic levels then I have on occasion had a little fun with other like minded inviduals who drive performance cars but I never go OTT. There was a time when I might have done but that was 10 years ago and I'd like to think I've grown up a bit since then.
Now I do not think this necessarily makes me a boy racer. I do not even own a baseball cap and I do not try to race every car that passes me at more than 5mph. I know a few people like this and trust me they pi$$ me off as much as anybody else. However I did buy my Scooby to have some fun with it and anybody who says they didn't have either purchased the wrong car or are lying. After all what would be the point of owning such a car if you couldn't enjoy it on your favourite stretch of b road from time to time.
My point is that although I don't condone hooligan behaviour, I think most people are being a little bit hypocrytical in their comments regarding Scoobies Vs other car type threads. I would imagine most Scooby owners are quite sensible with their cars and I do not think that Scoobies have degenerated to "Boy Racer" level, not yet anyway.
As for people saying things like how do you know the driver was any good or if he was trying. Well firstly as stated it doesn't take much skill to drive quickly in a straight line. Just put your right foot down and change gear at the redline and as for whether someone is trying or not is just b******ks. I think anyone with a bit of sense can tell if the other driver is playing along. I can tell the difference between a car cruisng along in 5th gear at 50mph and a car gunning it. I wouldn't say I beat a Ferrari if it was going 30mph in the slow lane and I went past it but I think you will find that the sound alone of a Ferrari or most other performance cars which are "trying" is unmistakeble to anyone with a modicum of intelligence
I reckon as long as it is with due care and attention and with respect for other road users this kind of thhing is within reason and if we are honest I think most poeple would have to admit they have indulged in this kind of thing from time to time. On the flipside of this of course is that these kinds of encounters aren't taken so far as to endanger other people. I say let people who want to enjoy their cars sensibly, enjoy them and if it makes them feel better then let them post their stories up here. I for one can share in the satisfaction that some people have of having a car which cost about £10K show a clean pair of heels to a 911 which costs nearer £60K (and yes for all you doubting Thomas's a decently powered Scooby can pass such a car. I have done so on a few occasions and yes, trust me they were trying) If you don't enjoy such threads then don't read them or contribute. Live and let live I say.
Phew glad I got that off my chest
Now I do not think this necessarily makes me a boy racer. I do not even own a baseball cap and I do not try to race every car that passes me at more than 5mph. I know a few people like this and trust me they pi$$ me off as much as anybody else. However I did buy my Scooby to have some fun with it and anybody who says they didn't have either purchased the wrong car or are lying. After all what would be the point of owning such a car if you couldn't enjoy it on your favourite stretch of b road from time to time.
My point is that although I don't condone hooligan behaviour, I think most people are being a little bit hypocrytical in their comments regarding Scoobies Vs other car type threads. I would imagine most Scooby owners are quite sensible with their cars and I do not think that Scoobies have degenerated to "Boy Racer" level, not yet anyway.
As for people saying things like how do you know the driver was any good or if he was trying. Well firstly as stated it doesn't take much skill to drive quickly in a straight line. Just put your right foot down and change gear at the redline and as for whether someone is trying or not is just b******ks. I think anyone with a bit of sense can tell if the other driver is playing along. I can tell the difference between a car cruisng along in 5th gear at 50mph and a car gunning it. I wouldn't say I beat a Ferrari if it was going 30mph in the slow lane and I went past it but I think you will find that the sound alone of a Ferrari or most other performance cars which are "trying" is unmistakeble to anyone with a modicum of intelligence
I reckon as long as it is with due care and attention and with respect for other road users this kind of thhing is within reason and if we are honest I think most poeple would have to admit they have indulged in this kind of thing from time to time. On the flipside of this of course is that these kinds of encounters aren't taken so far as to endanger other people. I say let people who want to enjoy their cars sensibly, enjoy them and if it makes them feel better then let them post their stories up here. I for one can share in the satisfaction that some people have of having a car which cost about £10K show a clean pair of heels to a 911 which costs nearer £60K (and yes for all you doubting Thomas's a decently powered Scooby can pass such a car. I have done so on a few occasions and yes, trust me they were trying) If you don't enjoy such threads then don't read them or contribute. Live and let live I say.
Phew glad I got that off my chest
17 September 2002, 02:33 PM
#44
Sounds interesting.
I have some friends who raced in the 60's/70's/80's at pro level, one raced in the Interserie in a Can Am McLaren, held the lap record at every circuit in the UK in his Shelby Cobra, raced and won in the series made famous by the cars like Baby and Big Bertha using a Corvair Special saloon with a McLaren M8F under the skin. One guy i know well from the special GT series i help run a car in used to race Tuscans, Chris Maries, Bit of a nutter.
I have some friends who raced in the 60's/70's/80's at pro level, one raced in the Interserie in a Can Am McLaren, held the lap record at every circuit in the UK in his Shelby Cobra, raced and won in the series made famous by the cars like Baby and Big Bertha using a Corvair Special saloon with a McLaren M8F under the skin. One guy i know well from the special GT series i help run a car in used to race Tuscans, Chris Maries, Bit of a nutter.
17 September 2002, 02:40 PM
#45
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Brendan makes a good point about the Impreza though.
A mag once described the Scoob as a car that 'flatters ordinary drivers, but doesn't bore good drivers', and I think that the best description I've ever heard.
It was brought home to me recently, when my Wife had her first long drive in the P1 and commented on how 'easy peazy' it was to drive. Maybe I'm not God's gift to driving after all
Josh
A mag once described the Scoob as a car that 'flatters ordinary drivers, but doesn't bore good drivers', and I think that the best description I've ever heard.
It was brought home to me recently, when my Wife had her first long drive in the P1 and commented on how 'easy peazy' it was to drive. Maybe I'm not God's gift to driving after all
Josh
17 September 2002, 02:40 PM
#46
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Sounds intersting John. I get the impression from previous posts that your a keen driver? Hmmm Don't know Chris. Have heard the name before. Seems to ring a bell but I only did one hot seat in that series and I didn't last long in the race as I seem to remember.
17 September 2002, 02:48 PM
#47
probably because Chris gave you a nudge. LOL
Chris is one of the funiest guys i have ever met when describing how to drive a race car quickly. He drove the prototype spaceframe mini that westfield were going to make, bike engined thing with no top end but quick in the twisties. His description of a lap had me in stitches, wish i could do it justice. Chris was due to drive the Saleen that got wiped out at Oulton Park the other week in the British GT race, he was the 2nd driver.
LOLChris is one of the funiest guys i have ever met when describing how to drive a race car quickly. He drove the prototype spaceframe mini that westfield were going to make, bike engined thing with no top end but quick in the twisties. His description of a lap had me in stitches, wish i could do it justice. Chris was due to drive the Saleen that got wiped out at Oulton Park the other week in the British GT race, he was the 2nd driver.
17 September 2002, 03:10 PM
#49
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Put an average driver in a porsche turbo, and an average driver in a scooby, the scooby driver would have a good chance of 'winning', assuming both cars are factory standard. As has been said, the scooby is a good car whatever your level of driving. Put 2 very good drivers in the same car, and the scooby would have a very hard time. An average driver would be able to use more of the scoobys potential than the porsches. The 'circuit' in use also has a big bearing on this, as do conditions etc, all of which could favour one or the other. When people claim to have beaten this car or that car in their posts, most of it would be possible under the right conditions. The truth may occasionally be embellished slightly, but we're all human...
There are faster cars than Scoobies. There are better handling cars than scoobies. Not all current or ex racing drivers are good drivers (no offence meant to anyone on here). Some non racing drivers would make brilliant race drivers. On balance though, the scoobies have big following for a simple reason - they are a good car to drive. I laugh at some of the posts on here, but I take them in the spirit in which I think they were intended. Just glad I don't own a cossie though!
There are faster cars than Scoobies. There are better handling cars than scoobies. Not all current or ex racing drivers are good drivers (no offence meant to anyone on here). Some non racing drivers would make brilliant race drivers. On balance though, the scoobies have big following for a simple reason - they are a good car to drive. I laugh at some of the posts on here, but I take them in the spirit in which I think they were intended. Just glad I don't own a cossie though!
17 September 2002, 04:05 PM
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To edit, just click on the icon with the pencil above your post. Don't do it within ?45 seconds though, you hit flood control.
Re X vs. Y: isn't there a simplified way of checking? Something like take Owner A with his scoob and Owner B with his ?911 out to a track. Each gets a few laps in both cars to get used to them. Then time 3 laps each. Find average time per car between owners to show the fastest car, find average time per owner between cars to show the fastest driver.
Correct my maths if it's wrong, and I know it depends on if the track is straight or twisty, if one car is older than the other, etc etc. But it's a bit more conclusive than the traffic light grand prix.
BTW, I haven't even got a car at the moment but I'd love to watch!
BJH
Re X vs. Y: isn't there a simplified way of checking? Something like take Owner A with his scoob and Owner B with his ?911 out to a track. Each gets a few laps in both cars to get used to them. Then time 3 laps each. Find average time per car between owners to show the fastest car, find average time per owner between cars to show the fastest driver.
Correct my maths if it's wrong, and I know it depends on if the track is straight or twisty, if one car is older than the other, etc etc. But it's a bit more conclusive than the traffic light grand prix.
BTW, I haven't even got a car at the moment
but I'd love to watch!BJH
17 September 2002, 04:18 PM
#53
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moth I hadnt taken offence I thought you had a good point..I was offering my scoob to help you defend the point i.e. its the driver not the car....think people should read the thrust thread...now there is something to get worked up about..cant beleive that scoob got left at 300mph...
17 September 2002, 05:47 PM
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Scubarus are great. I am watching the turkish rally on the telly and over these conditions the cars can really shift, after all that what they are designed for.
However for a proper road race over any decent length over decent roads, they aren't going to compete with a car thats designed for very fast road use and a driver thats trying.
I've now got an M3SMG and I've had an EVOVII whip me off the mark, but by 80 I'm gaining on him and he was whipped once over 110. The cars are designed for different purposes and you would need a heavily modified Scubarus probably with altered gear ratios and final drives to compete with a very fast road car at speed.
Unmodified M3 us spec 333bhp with limiter still fitted.
However for a proper road race over any decent length over decent roads, they aren't going to compete with a car thats designed for very fast road use and a driver thats trying.
I've now got an M3SMG and I've had an EVOVII whip me off the mark, but by 80 I'm gaining on him and he was whipped once over 110. The cars are designed for different purposes and you would need a heavily modified Scubarus probably with altered gear ratios and final drives to compete with a very fast road car at speed.
Unmodified M3 us spec 333bhp with limiter still fitted.
17 September 2002, 06:32 PM
#58
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Moth,
like any car, the scoob is getting to be in the "boy racer" price bracket and this means that you will get idiots driving them
But then again ive seen a brand new M3 drive like a complete and utter to55er, nearly taking me out on the slip road because he was missing his junction (he was in the overtaking lane at the time and i was on the exit part of the slip road
).
I also seem to find is that its not always the Subaru driver that incites the excessive speed (had this with a merc 320 and a toyota landcruiser who were racing on the A1) i was quite happily minding my own business (overtaking trucks) when mr merc and mr landcruiser decided that they would battle for the place behind my car) so i opened the car up a little when the van infront moved over, i wasnt going to pull in as there was another truck up front that i wished to pass first (so i did but mr landcruiser did a REALLY dodgy manouver ) ending up 2 inches off me back bumper, so passed truck, clear road, pulled in and floored it, left mr merc and mr landcruiser for dust (i did wave at him thou but he seemed to be hacked off for some reason childish but fun though )
A ferarri has done the same to me (348gt) with 2 guys in their mid 20's, 3 inches off the bumper of me scoob (before the corner) and they then proceeded to be 3 inches off me bumper until we came to the lights, they looked over and laughed then shot off (but not quite as quickly as me ) They were not laughing at the end
But everyone will at one time or another want to see what their car will do on the road against another car of similar performance, its just human nature.
(i shall point out that the ferarri was on a nice bit of duel carriage way, no cameras and i also keep to the limits in towns etc but will open the car up when the conditions allow )
Tony
like any car, the scoob is getting to be in the "boy racer" price bracket
and this means that you will get idiots driving them But then again ive seen a brand new M3 drive like a complete and utter to55er, nearly taking me out on the slip road because he was missing his junction (he was in the overtaking lane at the time and i was on the exit part of the slip road
).I also seem to find is that its not always the Subaru driver that incites the excessive speed (had this with a merc 320 and a toyota landcruiser who were racing on the A1) i was quite happily minding my own business (overtaking trucks) when mr merc and mr landcruiser decided that they would battle for the place behind my car) so i opened the car up a little when the van infront moved over, i wasnt going to pull in as there was another truck up front that i wished to pass first (so i did but mr landcruiser did a REALLY dodgy manouver
) ending up 2 inches off me back bumper, so passed truck, clear road, pulled in and floored it, left mr merc and mr landcruiser for dust (i did wave at him thou but he seemed to be hacked off for some reason childish but fun though )A ferarri has done the same to me (348gt) with 2 guys in their mid 20's, 3 inches off the bumper of me scoob (before the corner
) and they then proceeded to be 3 inches off me bumper until we came to the lights, they looked over and laughed then shot off (but not quite as quickly as me ) They were not laughing at the end But everyone will at one time or another want to see what their car will do on the road against another car of similar performance, its just human nature.
(i shall point out that the ferarri was on a nice bit of duel carriage way, no cameras
and i also keep to the limits in towns etc but will open the car up when the conditions allow )Tony
17 September 2002, 07:25 PM
#59
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are you just average drivers with great cars?
I agree with JF too. Some club level drivers are very good, many are just well practiced at driving to the limits. I'm very much an average driver with no real talent, but do push the car when there is room, so can often beat people who have never driven hard in their life.
The scooby is a very friendly car to drive fast. I have played with the tail with lift off oversteer etc and caught it, and IMHO could do so all day without really risking losing it. I have tracked a lightweight kit that - when driven well - will slaughter most scoobs round a track, but l managed to lose that very easily: less friendly, but ultimately much quicker.
Horses for courses and all that, as I've probably said before.
Moth - welcome to the board M8.
Edit - I'm also an average typist with a great computer!
[Edited by hades - 9/17/2002 7:27:14 PM]
17 September 2002, 07:38 PM
#60
Most very quick cars will do 0-60 in 3-5 secs and top out at 150 -160 - 170 or what ever. Some have higher levels of grip some are RWD muscle cars Blah Blah Blah. But they are all in the same ball park
At the end of the day I agree with A lot of waht has been said ... It is all down to the driver.
I often have a good natured battle with other performance cars. But when I do I will only drive my car at 95% of its capability.
Occasionaly I come across someone who is prepared to push their car harder than I am to make a point - to the limit. I just let them go. Thats what tracks are for.
Best wishes
Steve