MattOz

Richie Richie,

Wake Up!! Co55ie might be about to say something interesting Sorry mate, my mistake. best to nod off again.

When Co55ie wakes up and smells the coffee he might be able to pass useful informative and balanced judgement. Still, I'll probably be very grey and very old by the time that day comes, so I'll not hold my breath.

Escorts/Sierras etc etc are great, but not in the same class as BMW's. Pitch a standard Cosworth, be it 3-door, Sapphire, 4x4 Saff or Escort against a standard E30 M3 and they'd be whoop'd. Been there, done it, got the t-shirt.

Balanced chassis and superb poise and handling. That'll not be the Ford then.

Hide behind loads of aftermarket horsepower if you can't drive, but compare standard with standard if you have the b4lls. Evidently Co55ie has been eunuch'd

Matt

cookiemonster

I got to say, I can't see someone who's in the market for a BMW being tempted by Fords exceptional after-sales service...

co55ie

An escos would wipe the floor in standard trim with an E30 it is significantly quicker and has awesome handling as standard as has the E30 but that really is lacking in the engine dept.
Its the same as trying to compare a scoob with an allegro I doubt an e36 M3 could live with a standard escos either granted the M3 is quicker but the rest of he package is not in the same league.
Take a spanner to your escos and it will devastate pretty much anything certainly anything BMW have made including tuned ones.

Think rusty e30 or is it a montego think pimp mobile e 36 think hairy german woman with big **** think e46.

LOL why can't anyone name a classic BMW that is something of a legend like an RS500 for example ? RS500 V M3 E46 which one's the classic which ones the daddy which one defined a decade. LOL at the BMW M3 what a pile of junk driven by pipe smokers.
BMW is like America it just doen't have any heritage or history worth mentioning that is

cookiemonster

mate - if you want a huge engine, go buy a jet turbine

if you want seriously insane acceleration, then you should be looking at motorbikes (0-100 5.1 seconds, sub 10 quartes out of the crate - yours for £8000).

If you're after a quality car with second to none service, then consider a bmw

Cant see why anyone would go for a ford tho'

MooseRacer

cossie what EXACTLY is your point?

BMW make cars that are superbly fit for purpose.

GT40, and the various aging Cosworths you mention were also superbly fit for purpose.

they are (or were in the Fords case) aimed at different markets, so what are you bleating on about? The only person comparing the 2 is you!

GaryC

My dear misguided cossah tarted dagenham dustbin owing chum.

You want to know what genre defining BMWs there have been? Well none that you have heard of because if it doesn't have a ford badge, you aren't interested, but..

3.0CSL - was to the 1970's touring car competition what the RS500 was in the 1980's, except it dominated for twice as long AND dominated when it had competiton, something the RS500 never did - the Touring car Turbo 'group' was effectively a one-car make. The RS500 couldn't do anything but win - except when they all broke down and the NA 2-litre class (which the E30 M3 dominated again in competition) would win.

2000/2001/2002 - the first ever 'sport saloon', fore-runner to the 3-series, which then spawned the 2002 Turbo, the first turbo charged saloon, and then became the first saloon based 100bhp/litre car.

635CSI - redefined the GT class

E30 M3 - Still rated as the finest handling car ever...and would kill a standard 'cossah' any which way you want. More power, less weight, less drivetrain loss, superior handling, more reliable....etc Even Ford admit the Escort Cosworth handles like a dog. It is a cut-down Sierra chassis, no multi-link independant suspension. Go to a track day and you will find cossah's need 100bhp more than an Impreza to post like-for-like lap times, and the Impreza doesn't handle at all well.

E28 M5 - first ferrari/911 rivaling high performance saloon.

Mclaren F1 - as much BMW as GT40 is ford. Still the fastest road car ever, and houses what is one of (if not the) best road car engine ever.

...and thats all before the 1990s when they further redefined the sports saloon market with the 325/328/330, introduced the performance diesel, introduced a sequential manual gearbox on a production saloon, introduced the first 6-speed auto......

Let's also not forget that all BMW's great cars are BMW through and through. All great Ford's are down to someone else. Lotus/Lola/Cosworth...

You keep trying to bring this into a Ford Vs BMW battle. It isn't. Their markets don't overlap at all. Ford have had to buy Jaguar AND Volvo to try and compete with BMW and still struggle to shift half as many cars between the two brands as BMW manages with one.

You are right, the ford/cosworth lump is at least one of (if not the) finest 2.0 engines ever. But that is the ONLY claim to fame in 25+ years.


Oh and you STILL haven't come up with a Ford NA 100bhp/litre engine, or a 'less lazy' BMW-rivalling big engine to quote you back "you can't"

MattOz

Gary,

Rearrange these words into a well known phrase or saying.....

The Hit Head Nail The On

Matt

carl

Let's not forget that although the RS500 dominated the BTCC for many years, so did the BMW 3-series (Soper, Harvey and Smokin' Jo Winkelhock spring to mind)

co55ie

gary have a quick think about the power output of the 1.7 litre zetec in the racing puma and its power output.

LOL about the last 25 years exactly what engine powered Michael Scumachers benetton to so many victories and world championships LOL.

Sorry mate but your bike is no faster than a very average performance car round a circuit.
Saff cossie 7.65 from 0-100mph thats fun

GaryC

Ford Racing Puma - 1.7l, 153bhp, 90bhp/litre. And that's the peak of acheivement in 25 years? Oh the same car also only manged a paltry 130bhp/tonne a BMW 320i manages that

And I think you'll find the engine that powered Michael Schumachers Benetton to 'so many victories' was the Renault. He did win his first Championship with Ford power, but only just and with fewer victories...before Benetton dumped Ford for the 95 season in favour of the Renault engine as the Ford was down on power and unreliable

carl

Only one [drivers]world championship, IIRC. Schumacher won in a Benetton-Ford in 1994, then a Benetton-Renault in 1995. Benetton-Ford have never won the constructors' championship AFAIK.

Nelson Piquet won a world championship in 1983 in a Brabham BMW (they came third in the constructors' championship).

[Edited by carl - 10/23/2002 8:18:48 PM]

MooseRacer

Cossie, Racing Puma is a pretty poor example for 2 reasons: an output of 150bhp from 1.7ltrs is nothing special.

And I seem to recall that Yamaha had a hand in this engine anyway.

Dave Coulshaw

What's up cossie? cat got your tongue no rebuttal?

I was enjoying seeing another mis-guided, stuck-in-the-80s muppet getting wound up and pasted

Richie1

In the name of all thats sane, shut up and give your **** a chance co55ie cause it would do a better job than your "mouth" is doing right now


You really dont live in the real world do you ??


A large reason that the Ford Cosworths (use that term loosely) are so "revered" could be because some Ford fanatics dont want to forget them as the rest of the range is really unremarkable.


Grow up and get with the times. The Escort/Sierra Cosworth were great cars in their time but they are nowt special these days

co55ie

oh dear Wendy are they looking in Burton's for a new suit too a match made in heaven BMW and badly fitting Cheap suits. You just can't have one without the other can you and damn I nearly forgot the Garish tie still the BMW sales Executive (psalmy sod to everyone else) should throw one in free with the car perhaps one of his hand me downs.

[Edited by co55ie - 10/12/2002 5:54:30 PM]