Anti-Community Spirit on ScoobyNet - What can we do?
16 October 2002, 05:42 PM
#91
what it acheives is a concept and a feeling among the community that we are here to support each other as well as have a laugh, but not to be morons and attack each other.
16 October 2002, 05:42 PM
#92
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Tony banning IP addresses is a bad idea, people going through ISPs could get tarred with the same brush even if they are the cleanest of members and then you have others that us DHCP so have changing IP addresses.
I had thought about this as a solution and then thought about the issues of static and DHCP.
I had thought about this as a solution and then thought about the issues of static and DHCP.
16 October 2002, 05:46 PM
#93
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"what it acheives is a concept and a feeling among the community that we are here to support each other as well as have a laugh, but not to be morons and attack each other. "
isnt that a bit narnia?
how will it stop beastman, etc from just having a go at people?
wont people just use a 2nd user id to have a dig then bring out their "normal" id to tot up some nicey points?
isnt that a bit narnia?
how will it stop beastman, etc from just having a go at people?
wont people just use a 2nd user id to have a dig then bring out their "normal" id to tot up some nicey points?
16 October 2002, 05:47 PM
#94
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I have the feeling this "ignore" button is already implemented, and I'm the last one to know about it 
I'll repeat in case you missed it: the BBS is way too big to rate other users. It really is.
I'll repeat in case you missed it: the BBS is way too big to rate other users. It really is.
16 October 2002, 05:48 PM
#96
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Simon
The star system is reasonable, but it might seem a bit like working at McDonalds. And do you propose that someone who is (say) trustworthy, able to give tech help AND supports the community would have 3 5-star symbols next to their name.
I'm not trying to knock the idea, but it might look a bit messy unless done right. And I'm sure as hell never going to score many stars .......
bros
The star system is reasonable, but it might seem a bit like working at McDonalds. And do you propose that someone who is (say) trustworthy, able to give tech help AND supports the community would have 3 5-star symbols next to their name.
I'm not trying to knock the idea, but it might look a bit messy unless done right. And I'm sure as hell never going to score many stars .......
bros
16 October 2002, 05:49 PM
#97
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Simon,
It might be an idea that your rating culd suffer due to moderator intervention and behaviour.
It would mean that the rating would have even more standing. With the chance that it could drop people might take their on-line conduct a bit more seriously.
Of course those that like winding people up (in the most negative way) could just ignore the whole concept together or even worse target those with high ratings.
Sorry for the spanner in the works, I personally like the rating idea.
Mark
(PS You do realise my post count is going up while trying to be constructive so people will think have been muppeting again
)
It might be an idea that your rating culd suffer due to moderator intervention and behaviour.
It would mean that the rating would have even more standing. With the chance that it could drop people might take their on-line conduct a bit more seriously.
Of course those that like winding people up (in the most negative way) could just ignore the whole concept together or even worse target those with high ratings.
Sorry for the spanner in the works, I personally like the rating idea.
Mark
(PS You do realise my post count is going up while trying to be constructive so people will think have been muppeting again
)
16 October 2002, 05:50 PM
#98
Theo
You're not being ignored. I just don't agree with you.
And to re-iterate what I said.. I refuse to just say "nothing can be done so forget it". This is the kind of thing I spend my time on, and it is my personal obligation to myself that I try.
At the beginning of this thread I asked if people would not post things that are of no use or benefit to this discussion. You are basically saying "there is no point in discussing it". That does not help, and is exactly what we're trying to find a solution to.
All the best
Simon
You're not being ignored. I just don't agree with you.
And to re-iterate what I said.. I refuse to just say "nothing can be done so forget it". This is the kind of thing I spend my time on, and it is my personal obligation to myself that I try.
At the beginning of this thread I asked if people would not post things that are of no use or benefit to this discussion. You are basically saying "there is no point in discussing it". That does not help, and is exactly what we're trying to find a solution to.
All the best
Simon
16 October 2002, 05:50 PM
#99
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How about having a job description for helpful ppl - like 'technical advisor/expert' (eg John Felsted) or wheel experts and so on. ppl achieve this rating by useful/knowlegdable postings on a subject. Oridnary Joes like me have no title, and the known idiots/disrupters have a 'agitator' title, which they only lose by posting usefully/positively. These ratings can be awarded by each forum moderator.
16 October 2002, 05:54 PM
#100
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is it not the case that only a handfull of ppl would care about how many "stars" they had? i for one certainly wouldnt and i imagine the ppl that would are those who already conduct themselves properly. if you are the sort of person that will be a **** on posts why do you care whether you have "alloy expert" or a pretty star by your name?
not being neg (well i am) just cant see how it helps with the original problem, its just another way to up the egos of a select few.
T
not being neg (well i am
) just cant see how it helps with the original problem, its just another way to up the egos of a select few.T
16 October 2002, 05:58 PM
#101
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If you have advisors/experts you know who's talking from experience and who's talking out of their **** - so loads of ppl ask john felsted q on drivetrain because they know they'll get a straight answer. Equally agitators can be flagged up so ppl know to ignore/avoid them and hopefully they'll go away, or try to lose the tag by being more positive.
[Edited by Jon1T - 10/16/2002 5:58:50 PM]
[Edited by Jon1T - 10/16/2002 6:00:24 PM]
[Edited by Jon1T - 10/16/2002 5:58:50 PM]
[Edited by Jon1T - 10/16/2002 6:00:24 PM]
16 October 2002, 05:59 PM
#102
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I don't understand how some people don't have date of registration? It's that which I look at, rather than post count. I agree that these can be lost with a change of username, but I still think they're better.
www.blatchat.com have various user classifications, which seem to go from novice through anorak to Archangel to Deity. I've no idea how they make the difference - perhaps just postcount - you may wish to ask.
The voting idea is well intentioned, but sounds like it is starting to get complicated, to vote for a number of different categories - he's a 4 in that, but only a 1 in this, and a 2.5 in the other...
Wish I had my study files with me. There was a sociological study of users of a bulletin board, where the authors identified eight different types of characters. From memory, there were Oracles (those who knew all), Defenders (all those who would instantly jump in to defend an Oracle who was questioned), Trolls, etc, etc. Perhaps one could set up those as categories, and vote for one (radio buttons) of them. But how often would people vote? Automated email to users "You last voted four months ago, please vote again"?
I can try to get the study, if it's of help, but it probably wouldn't fit with your idea of staying away from the negative.
www.blatchat.com have various user classifications, which seem to go from novice through anorak to Archangel to Deity. I've no idea how they make the difference - perhaps just postcount - you may wish to ask.
The voting idea is well intentioned, but sounds like it is starting to get complicated, to vote for a number of different categories - he's a 4 in that, but only a 1 in this, and a 2.5 in the other...
Wish I had my study files with me. There was a sociological study of users of a bulletin board, where the authors identified eight different types of characters. From memory, there were Oracles (those who knew all), Defenders (all those who would instantly jump in to defend an Oracle who was questioned), Trolls, etc, etc. Perhaps one could set up those as categories, and vote for one (radio buttons) of them. But how often would people vote? Automated email to users "You last voted four months ago, please vote again"?
I can try to get the study, if it's of help, but it probably wouldn't fit with your idea of staying away from the negative.
16 October 2002, 06:06 PM
#103
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"If you have advisors/experts you know who's talking from experience and who's talking out of their **** "
thats great for a thread on powder coating a dump valve but how does it help with community spirt....the **** arent diving on techy posts they are are general posts on general issues. AGAIN, how will this help stop ppl slagging of others or their ideas?
thats great for a thread on powder coating a dump valve but how does it help with community spirt....the **** arent diving on techy posts they are are general posts on general issues. AGAIN, how will this help stop ppl slagging of others or their ideas?
16 October 2002, 06:07 PM
#104
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Lets give the ratings system a go, whats the worst than can happen? Another Signature style event?
You could just condense the ratings into three.
Helpfulness
Integrity
Muppet factor
That would make the admin easy, and new users would find it easy to understand(except the muppet bit, but then who does)
You could just condense the ratings into three.
Helpfulness
Integrity
Muppet factor
That would make the admin easy, and new users would find it easy to understand(except the muppet bit, but then who does)
16 October 2002, 06:07 PM
#105
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Hmmm whats the point of the rating etc? Its not the helpful knowledgable people that are the problem. Its people that are generally "over" opinonated and can't accept someone elses view. Why not have a probation period for anyone slagging or upsetting Scooby members. Its basically up to the Mods to be a lot tougher on some people. How about changing the colour of their username if they are naughty, Pink would be good and if they are naughty again ban them! If they don't bother anyone again for a few months revert the username back to normal!
I would hardly call this "in the spirit of scoobynet"
and if they are naughty again ban them! If they don't bother anyone again for a few months revert the username back to normal!
Mods - Now you see what a bunch of retards
16 October 2002, 06:08 PM
#106
Jon1T - GREAT idea... Again, I don't like the idea of the "agitator" or giving any recognition at all to people in a negative way...
But maybe once someone has a full (5 star - or whatever) rating, and has enough people rate them as full.. they become up for vote as an expert in a field. That would allow people to know that who they can trust the advice of someone they are talking to.
---
remember, this is not a way to make people think "I want gold stars so I'll stop being a moron", as that will make no difference, it's just a way of making the ambience of the place more positive, so people support it more rather thanjust accepting the crap.
But maybe once someone has a full (5 star - or whatever) rating, and has enough people rate them as full.. they become up for vote as an expert in a field. That would allow people to know that who they can trust the advice of someone they are talking to.
---
remember, this is not a way to make people think "I want gold stars so I'll stop being a moron", as that will make no difference, it's just a way of making the ambience of the place more positive, so people support it more rather thanjust accepting the crap.
16 October 2002, 06:11 PM
#110
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Carlos
The ratings system 'rewards' good behavoir. Which is a more positive way of doing things that punishing bad behavoir(which usually leads to more bad behavoir and is more work).
What we need is a way in which 'goodies' are encouraged and 'baddies' are seen to be just that.
The ratings system 'rewards' good behavoir. Which is a more positive way of doing things that punishing bad behavoir(which usually leads to more bad behavoir and is more work).
What we need is a way in which 'goodies' are encouraged and 'baddies' are seen to be just that.
16 October 2002, 06:12 PM
#111
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I seriously think the probationary thing will work. As suggested, newbies can only post in the newbie forum til they reach 100 posts, then they can move to all forums.
If they start annoying people, they will be moved back into the newbie forum. When they prove their worth, they will be re-instated in the main forums.
This helps in 2 ways:
1. People registering just to wind people up, will have to make 100 posts to get anywhere in the main forums.
2. Well established members will stop acting the goat.
Seems simple, and it would work, and also avoid the ratings worries that everyone has.
If they start annoying people, they will be moved back into the newbie forum. When they prove their worth, they will be re-instated in the main forums.
This helps in 2 ways:
1. People registering just to wind people up, will have to make 100 posts to get anywhere in the main forums.
2. Well established members will stop acting the goat.
Seems simple, and it would work, and also avoid the ratings worries that everyone has.
16 October 2002, 06:17 PM
#113
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I can understand the point of a rating system to help people. Its has to been only done by the Mods though as all that happends is some one posts asking for ratings and everyone joins in. The only real way to stamp out the "slagging" etc is for the Moderators to be tougher on it.
16 October 2002, 06:18 PM
#114
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DW, not a bad idea. But then who would look in the newbie forum.
For example
Mr X just buys a used Impreza and stumbles across scoobynet.
Two posts later, when driving the car he hears a squeeling noise coming from the engine bay. Now he's not allowed to post the question in drivetrain or in general; only in the newbie forum.
Now unless the Scoobynet 'sages' and Guru's make a point of checking 'Newbies' as well as drivetrain etc etc then this means that he gets either no advice at all, bad advice or gets muppeted. This then puts him right off and he does'nt bother ever again..
In my experience its the 'sages' who are getting miffed with the twonks and so theres no real incentive to go into newbies, because it contains a higher proportion of twonks to say, drivetrain.
For example
Mr X just buys a used Impreza and stumbles across scoobynet.
Two posts later, when driving the car he hears a squeeling noise coming from the engine bay. Now he's not allowed to post the question in drivetrain or in general; only in the newbie forum.
Now unless the Scoobynet 'sages' and Guru's make a point of checking 'Newbies' as well as drivetrain etc etc then this means that he gets either no advice at all, bad advice or gets muppeted. This then puts him right off and he does'nt bother ever again..
In my experience its the 'sages' who are getting miffed with the twonks and so theres no real incentive to go into newbies, because it contains a higher proportion of twonks to say, drivetrain.
16 October 2002, 06:24 PM
#116
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Yes he will. But then What if Mr X owns a rabid stoat that needs 24X7 watching?
Seriously, you get my point though. If newbies can't get the info they want they'll go somewhere else.
Seriously, you get my point though. If newbies can't get the info they want they'll go somewhere else.
16 October 2002, 06:28 PM
#117
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For example
Mr X just buys a used Impreza and stumbles across scoobynet.
Two posts later, he finds a post that has a bunch of morons on it debating the merits of posting in the style of a retarded chimp. Now he's not bothered about being allowed to post a question cause he thinks we are all muppets.
Mr X just buys a used Impreza and stumbles across scoobynet.
Two posts later, he finds a post that has a bunch of morons on it debating the merits of posting in the style of a retarded chimp. Now he's not bothered about being allowed to post a question cause he thinks we are all muppets.
16 October 2002, 06:28 PM
#118
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I've come into this debate late in the day after coming home, and am a bit surprised by it.
Simon: While I agree that the three immediate replies to Ru$$'s post were unhelpful to say the least, IMHO they fell well short of abuse and there have been many other threads more worthy of your fire. The individuals had, I suspect, read Ru$$'s post too quickly: his appeal for help is lost within the controversiality of the issue. And a response like "try it if you like, but experience says you haven't a prayer" would IMHO be an on-topic reply - but needs expressing in neutral language. I regard them as "insensitive" rather than "adversarial": and insensitive, while unfortunate, is something we've all been at some time or other.
What pi55es me off is the gratuitous aggression sometimes shown in posts. As a relatively recent member I was staggered when looking for 'classics' in the 'should we have a golden oldies?' thread to read the aggression in the "***** on my bonnet" (or whatever - I can't quite remember) thread - a pity because some of it was, indeed, quite funny. I could not understand why the Moderators hadn't pulled the posts (remember, I fairly inexperienced in netiquette).
I think any 'solution' involving an administrative process, whether it be rating (whether by peers or moderators), qualification to post, or something similar is doomed to failure on account of the BBS size and because it can become a 'game'in itself. I like SaxoBoy's contribution best: indeed, I have a couple of times myself posted 'hey, don't be too hard on the guy.....' type posts.
For my part, I'd like to see moderators pull aggressiveposts more often not on grounds of suppression of opinion, but on grounds of intemperate wording. Even tho' in life I'm fairly free in my language, I think there's too many fecking **** s around the place! The insensitive and - especially - those who don't read the posts properly, I think we have to live with.
I'm a strong advocate of more forums (though it's difficult to see where Ru$$ might have gone). I've had tremendous support concerning STiUK suspension, and S-UK are having to listen as a consequence. But it's come through a different forum! A "how-to" (smilies, pictures etc) Forum is a Must (with Moderators pulling duplicate threads), as is, I suggest, a "group buys".
FWIW
Cheers
Phil Harrison
Simon: While I agree that the three immediate replies to Ru$$'s post were unhelpful to say the least, IMHO they fell well short of abuse and there have been many other threads more worthy of your fire. The individuals had, I suspect, read Ru$$'s post too quickly: his appeal for help is lost within the controversiality of the issue. And a response like "try it if you like, but experience says you haven't a prayer" would IMHO be an on-topic reply - but needs expressing in neutral language. I regard them as "insensitive" rather than "adversarial": and insensitive, while unfortunate, is something we've all been at some time or other.
What pi55es me off is the gratuitous aggression sometimes shown in posts. As a relatively recent member I was staggered when looking for 'classics' in the 'should we have a golden oldies?' thread to read the aggression in the "***** on my bonnet" (or whatever - I can't quite remember) thread - a pity because some of it was, indeed, quite funny. I could not understand why the Moderators hadn't pulled the posts (remember, I fairly inexperienced in netiquette).
I think any 'solution' involving an administrative process, whether it be rating (whether by peers or moderators), qualification to post, or something similar is doomed to failure on account of the BBS size and because it can become a 'game'in itself. I like SaxoBoy's contribution best: indeed, I have a couple of times myself posted 'hey, don't be too hard on the guy.....' type posts.
For my part, I'd like to see moderators pull aggressiveposts more often not on grounds of suppression of opinion, but on grounds of intemperate wording. Even tho' in life I'm fairly free in my language, I think there's too many fecking **** s around the place! The insensitive and - especially - those who don't read the posts properly, I think we have to live with.
I'm a strong advocate of more forums (though it's difficult to see where Ru$$ might have gone). I've had tremendous support concerning STiUK suspension, and S-UK are having to listen as a consequence. But it's come through a different forum! A "how-to" (smilies, pictures etc) Forum is a Must (with Moderators pulling duplicate threads), as is, I suggest, a "group buys".
FWIW
Cheers
Phil Harrison
16 October 2002, 06:30 PM
#119
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People are drifting miles from the objective.
Objective: Control posts that are not wanted
Answer: Give gold stars to those that help people.
How on earth are they related ?
If you *really* want to stop a particular style of post you have to moderate it. Fix the S/W so posts can be deleted. Suspend user accounts for 24hrs. create gap of 24hrs between registering and posting. Do not enter any discussion into why any particular action was taken just point people to some S'Net T's & C's that say "My Bat, My Ball, Like it or Bugger off".
Deano
(off to fix my Sisters Bathroom light - do I get a star or should I just post in general asking for sychophantic words of approval)
[Edited by dsmith - 10/16/2002 6:33:20 PM]
Objective: Control posts that are not wanted
Answer: Give gold stars to those that help people.
How on earth are they related ?
If you *really* want to stop a particular style of post you have to moderate it. Fix the S/W so posts can be deleted. Suspend user accounts for 24hrs. create gap of 24hrs between registering and posting. Do not enter any discussion into why any particular action was taken just point people to some S'Net T's & C's that say "My Bat, My Ball, Like it or Bugger off".
Deano
(off to fix my Sisters Bathroom light - do I get a star or should I just post in general asking for sychophantic words of approval)
[Edited by dsmith - 10/16/2002 6:33:20 PM]
16 October 2002, 06:31 PM
#120
Scooby Regular
Neil - Mr X can still read the other forums, just not post. He can then use the brand new search facility (implemented at the same time as these changes) to allow him to search for his squealing noise. Job done.
You cant cover every eventuality, but IMHO this way covers most. We can still implement the rating system as well so help users.
So we get a rating system, saying what each user is good at helping with, and a newbies/probationary forum where the newbies hang out.
On the US MR2 site they have a newbies forum, and TBH when I was a newbie there it was great, as you could ask dumb questions without worrying about it. Almost like having your own little "dumb" community as it were
You cant cover every eventuality, but IMHO this way covers most. We can still implement the rating system as well so help users.
So we get a rating system, saying what each user is good at helping with, and a newbies/probationary forum where the newbies hang out.
On the US MR2 site they have a newbies forum, and TBH when I was a newbie there it was great, as you could ask dumb questions without worrying about it. Almost like having your own little "dumb" community as it were