WillieF

I have to say that I did not have time to read this at work today and that doesn't mean I have got a lot done.

I respect quite a lot of people on Snet and I have met quite a few. I think the real problem that needs tackled - and several people have sort of said this already - is aliases. There is nothing stopping me starting a 'fight' with another user and using some aliases to lay in about (sorry term of phrase not a good one but gets the point across!!) that user with my aliases.

It is really easy to increase your post count so that you look like a long term poster by using the muppets

With the points system I see a real problem in people having aliases that they use for abusing people/the system.

I have sat here thinking about ways of stopping aliasing like

One registration = one email address - however I have at least four addresses so thats out.

One registration = one home address with some sort of check that is a bugger to police/setup.

One registration = £30 well it would stop people having lots of aliases but would it stop you having two? Don't think so.

Publish everyones email addresses to registered members? Possibly but there is nothing to stop someone writing a script to farm them.....

Anyone come up with any more ways of doing it?

This is a real problem and I am glad that there are some people here willing to try and fix it.

Willie

WillieF

Rather than add to my post above I am going to add to it seperately..

I also think it is very easy to misread/misunderstood the written word and I bet if half the threads that get arguementative where taking place on the phone or in the pub there wouldn't be have as much quick reaction type agression..

LG John

Tony Burns makes a very good point about the smilies [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] and so on. Maybe when you register the email you get sent with your password could also include the smilie codes and a short few lines on the way you'd appreciate the new user conduct themselves - note short so that they actually read them!

The use of smilies can help to alter the way peoples posts are interpreted. I for one type very much like I'd speak when in the pubs with friends with a kind of casual, humorous tone. Often if I'm being serious or taking the pi55 I'll use smilies to try and reflect the mood or feeling. If cossie put a wink at the end of every post he made he'd probably be a lot more popular than he is

Not sure if a rating system would work but it would be quite funny and amusing. Better yet, we could have a 'tw@t of the week' award

BTW a spell check would be apprecited cause mines sucks

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 10/16/2002 6:48:58 PM]

scooby nutter

One simple thing to do,

Make scoobynet a subscription bbs where to post for say a year you pay a fee like £5.The wind up merchants wont bother paying when they can go to the rsoc,mlr,gtr bbs,and wind people up for free.
Because there are 0000's of scoobynet members that enjoy reading and posting on here it will make a large amount of cash of which some could be donated to a charity

just my idea

Duncan

ex-webby

Hi All

More GREAT stuff.

Neil

"What we need is a way in which 'goodies' are encouraged and 'baddies' are seen to be just that."

It's actually even simpler than that... we want to draw no attention at all / not even recognise (through the feature) the "baddies", but encourage the "goodies" (I think we should call both those something else!! LOL).

DW

The problem is.. you will still get people posting loads of rubbish just to be able to get on to the main forums quicker. I really see what you are saying, but I don't personally think it is workable.

I really think the solution is in *encouraging* rather than enforcing. I think we would all prefer it if the community was a place wher everyone was supportive, etc... so we just need to encourage that again.

Reading more.. brb

Phil Harrison

...Oh, and does putting in a post count actually add anything meaningful at all?? Say, record the first 50 or 100 to denote a Newbie and then....discontinue...? Just because LittleMissWRX has more than Crushinator...so what?? (Love ya both! )

Phil

Neil Smalley

Simon

How about "goodies" and PVC's (Potential Vaping Candidate)

The very nature of the ratings systems will show who contributes and who's a PVC. So you're right, we don't need to have a specific PVC rating.


[Edited by Neil Smalley - 10/16/2002 7:06:09 PM]

robski

Well its been a long time, probably longe than I think.

Ive stopped by a few times about to post helpful stuff and thought nah what Im going to post is going to start one of the turkeys off so I haven't bothered.

Hi webby long time

Anyways, the reason I don't bother mush anymore is due to the turkeys who abound now. Not just the constant flaming, aggressive posts, general insensitivity but loads and loads more reasons.

Scoobynet has evolved its become more mainstream as BBS's themselves have become more common, turkeys looking for roosts have found scoobynet and nested here

Think back 3-4 years and it was a very different place, a lot less forums, no real muppets (hmm Darkhorse springs to mind....oh and a SimonDeBonk geezer). More technical threads. Im sorry to blame them but the real rapid slipping IMHO happened when the muppets multiplied. Post as much as you can mentality started and spread, people just crusing around the threads looking for somewhere to post........

I personally would have posted here before going to my "real friends" to discuss something as I knew the likelyhood was I would get some real honest genuine help if someone could. I know some people would, but you would also get 300 turkey responses as well.

The only way I can see that you would get a return to the "good old days" is not to make it a pay option, but to make it an "invitation" option.

Just have 2-3 open forums where people who have just registered can post, and have the rest to full members. membership has to be applied for and is approved by the mods. Repetative failure to be a decent person ends in an early christmas, if your still with me

just by 2p worth
so long
robski

LG John

I have a seperate suggestion: I think it would be a good idea if the regulars that wanted to do so could supply 'key words' on which they regard themselves knowledgeable. That way if someone put the key words into a search it would be suggested that that regular could be of help and the user could click that regulars name generating a FAO thread in a special FAO forum.

For example my key words might be:

'planning' - as I'm a planning officer
'saxo' - as I know my saxo's quite well and had a vts
'diesel' because I have good knowledge of a range of performance diesel cars, A4, 330d, etc.
'sex god'

John Banks (if he choose to do so) would have key words such as 'tuning' and 'ecutek' etc.

This might help people get to the real people that can help them with their problems and clear up some of the 'traffic' on scoobynet.

ex-webby

Phil Harrison

Sorry for picking at individual points in your post as I agree with the majority of it.. not arguing with you in any way, just making sure we're on the same page, etc.

"Simon: While I agree that the three immediate replies to Ru$$'s post were unhelpful to say the least, IMHO they fell well short of abuse and there have been many other threads more worthy of your fire."

There is no "fire" here, and this thread is about a concept, not an individual thread or post or member or anything like that. It was just that this one is an example of the *kind* of thing we're discussing.

"I could not understand why the Moderators hadn't pulled the posts (remember, I fairly inexperienced in netiquette)."

I don't know the thread myself.. but the way things tend to work is that if we receive complaints via the "report to moderator" link, we act on it. If we don't and we don't notice it / don't think it's a problem we obviously don't act on it. We also actively look at threads to keep an eye on them, but there have been over 150,000 posts in the last month alone, so it's impossible to check everything. This one, may well have escaped attention or been wrongly thought of as OK. I really don't know until I look at it.

"For my part, I'd like to see moderators pull aggressiveposts more often not on grounds of suppression of opinion, but on grounds of intemperate wording."

I agree with this in principle, but when you look deeper in to it, it's not as sound as the ideal suggests. Firstly, it becomes "a game" to have your posts deleted / edited. Secondly it becomes a "why was my post deleted" nightmare for the moderators, and thirdly it means that it is individuals (the moderators and I) that are making decisions for the entire community.

At least with the rating system (rating would be by any member, but controlled so it couldn't be abused) there is possible glory in having the same account as someone who had just registered. So there is no incentive to use it as a game.

The "other forums" thing is for another topic... but the group buys thing is being dealt with (although incredibly slowly) in another way, and the "how to" forum is a good idea, and something I'm thinking about also.

-----

dsmith

"Objective: Control posts that are not wanted

Answer: Give gold stars to those that help people.

How on earth are they related ? "

OK.. the objective is not to "control" posts that are not wanted as such, but to encourage a more supportive and positive board. This is how they are related. Encourage the community spirit so that the unwanted element ends up having no fun here and goes to another bbs where they are dealing with morons all the time, and they can all enjoy that together.

"If you *really* want to stop a particular style of post you have to moderate it."

Doesn't work in practice though. Firstly it would take an army of moderators who were all assimilated with exactly the same motives, ideals and thought processes. Then.. you would still have the "freedom of speech" cries and the "why was my post removed" nightmares.

"Fix the S/W so posts can be deleted"

Posts CAN be deleted. I will work on the bug asap, but that is not something that is causing the problem, and is not a solution to it.

"Suspend user accounts for 24hrs"

They just re-register under a different name and come back as if they are a hero for being able to "beat the system". We CAN do other things which I won't go in to, but it's all basically spanking people that are naughty which is completely against the whole concept of respecting people. The MAJORITY of people that start off as "trouble-makers" end up chilling out and becoming valued members of the community.. spanking them makes it worse and does not give them the benefit of the doubt. This way it would just encourage people more to become part of the scene.

"create gap of 24hrs between registering and posting"

OK.. good point, that would indeed help with the above, but then again, people who knew the system would probably just create a shed load of accounts once they had been banned once. And it would stop genuine people from being able to ask questions, etc straight away.

"Do not enter any discussion into why any particular action was taken just point people to some S'Net T's & C's that say "My Bat, My Ball, Like it or Bugger off"

Yeah, I know what you mean. But it's not the attitude I want to take. I feel it's only right to respect people enough to explain why something has been removed. OK.. thinking about it, you probably didn't mean the "like it or bugger off bit", and it would just explain the reasons. But even when we do explain the reasons people still say things like "well there wasn't anything in my post that fell in to that category". Surely it's better to try to encourage the good stuff, than stamp on the bad stuff?

"(off to fix my Sisters Bathroom light - do I get a star or should I just post in general asking for sychophantic words of approval)"

Not sure what you mean by that, but it's basically (for me) spoilt an otherwise thought provoking post. Maybe I've misunderstood, in which case I apologise.

Reading more.. brb

Active

Webmaster in response to your question:
1/ Yes/Yes
2/ In your ps part of the thread you have answered your own question IMO.
You have the authority to do something to stop this negative attitude. I appreciate there is often a fine line between honest banter and downright abuse but it only takes one smart-**** often responding to a thread hiding behind a keyboard making remarks that he would`nt dare make to the persons face.
It wants stopping and sooner the better.
Bob

pslewis

I cannot offer a perfect answer to this - or maybe I can! should I leave?

I think that most people on here have a sense of humour and get along with most others - I am a wind-up merchant but get very bored very quickly if no-one rises to the bait ..... thats where the answer lies.

As for the thread about I paid £XXXX amount for my car and NOW its £XX ............ I personally think its the way of the world and anyone crying about it is being just as irritating as those who tell them to 'Snap-Out-Of-It'!! At the end of the day they were happy to pay £XXXX so that fact hasnt changed!!

Anyway, sorry I cant help more!! I dont think anything can effectively be done - without killing the free spirit!

Pete

Fuzz

Jumping from page four I may have missed something but...

following on from the "ignore button" idea.

If you were to have a sentance in the users id area where it said
THIS USER IS BEING IGNORED BY # PEOPLE
the more people that are ignoring this user shows his content to be less and less reliable / useful.
1. ok this guy has upset someone..
25. !!! Woa ! what an ****



Andy

ex-webby

DW

"On the US MR2 site they have a newbies forum, and TBH when I was a newbie there it was great, as you could ask dumb questions without worrying about it. Almost like having your own little "dumb" community as it were"

OK... that's a really valid point. Sorry I missed it before. Maybe we should set up a Newbie forum right now? But I don't think newbies should be limited to it?

If we think this is a good idea, I'll impliment it straight away.. let me know.

WillieF

"With the points system I see a real problem in people having aliases that they use for abusing people/the system."

OK.. that's a good point, but I think it is a genuine minority that would be the kind of person to clock up some good points and then be THAT MUCH of a loser to register a secret account and start abusing people. There are lots of ways we can check on that kind of thing.. but if you REALLY wanted to and knew your stuff you could do it. Either way.. these people would be found out eventually (look at scoobynet history to see that) and it would completely shatter their online reputation.

Saxo Boy

"Maybe when you register the email you get sent with your password could also include the smilie codes and a short few lines on the way you'd appreciate the new user conduct themselves"

Very good idea. Maybe we could incorporate that in a sticky thread in the newbir forum entitled "If you've just arrived.. read here first"?

"If cossie put a wink at the end of every post he made he'd probably be a lot more popular than he is"

The only problem with that, is that some people use the wink as a way of being able to say something nasty / offensive and being able to later say "didn't you see the wink?"

Phil Harrison

"Oh, and does putting in a post count actually add anything meaningful at all?"

I'm starting to think this may be a valid point. What do other people think?

Neil

"How about "goodies" and PVC's (Potential Vaping Candidate)

The very nature of the ratings systems will show who contributes and who's a PVC. So you're right, we don't need to have a specific PVC rating"

This is VERY important. We MUST NOT give any recognition to the PVC's as you call them. Only to the people who are valued highly. There would be no shame at all in having a zero rating, but a higher rating would mean that people respect what you say / do which is a positive thing.

robski!!! welcome back

"membership has to be applied for and is approved by the mods"

Would be so good if it were workable. But unfortunately, there is nothing to tell us that someone is a "good guy" when they register. We would effectively be turning away thousands (there have been about 10,000 new members in the last 12 months) of potential stars away every year. people who could have added a great deal to the community.

robski... don't go away again, it is clear that you want this as well or you wouldn't have posted on this thread. Stay and help.

Nat21

"he must be right, he's really highly rated, the other guy has no rating at all!"

I agree with this, and have thought long and hard about it. I think the main thing is that as soon as this happens, there will be more than one person who is a tech guru on a specific subject. Once someone is seen to give bad advice on something, their rating drops. It is the only way. This would also encourage people to make sure they are giving good advice, and in addition, would draw attention more closely to the guru comments.

At the moment, ANYBODY can jump in and claim to know. There will never be a time when scoobynet will support 100% what the gurus say as being gospel and we should always encourage everyone to comment and discuss subjects rather than taking people's word as the truth.

reading more.. brb (this is taking forever!!! and I'm thrilled about it - there is so much info / ideas in here, it has surely got to be encouraging for everyone?)

chrisp

Easy you need a moderator to sanction the move from the newbie forum once they have got all their initial questions out of their system.

If theres a technical query then a link from a technical forum could be done. I see the newbie forum similar to the FAQ section on the SIDC forums, anyone can post questions but only authorised personnel can respond. Rather than a moderator you could have "newbie advisor" ie some prepared to look in the newbie forum and offer advice almost like a mentor role. So the newbie forum would only be for newbies, newbie advisors and moderators.

If someone gets through and posts a newbie type question it get moved to the newbie forum.

As far as the rating system goes, I am not keen as its open to elitism and abuse. 18,000 unique members on here I think not, most people I know have more than one ID, you will get an influx of new registered users so that they can rate themselves .

IMHO you have to deal with the same questions being asked over and over again.

Cheers

ChrisP

ex-webby

Saxo Boy

"I think it would be a good idea if the regulars that wanted to do so could supply 'key words' on which they regard themselves knowledgeable. That way if someone put the key words into a search it would be suggested that that regular could be of help and the user could click that regulars name generating a FAO thread in a special FAO forum"

ANOTHER CORKER!! LOL

This one is a long way off as it will take some time to impliment if everyone agrees it's a good idea. But I do like it.

I think I would prefer to keep the discussion on the boards though in fairness, and then people can reply if they want to rather than being pressured in to replying to a question they might not be 100% sure about.

But certainly these areas of expertise could be listed in their profile, but suggested by other members.

Fuzz

"THIS USER IS BEING IGNORED BY # PEOPLE"

Yeah, I agree this sounds like a cool idea. But I thought about it for a long time and thought a) it still gives a status to people "I bet I can get my ignore count up to 50 by the weekend", b) doesn't stop new people seeing all the crap, c) doesn't work for people who just read (the majority of traffic on scoobynet is from non-posters) or people that don't use cookies and d) it will make some people post crap even more and say "well just click the ignore button if you don't like what I say".

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ok,
this may become open to abuse but ill put it down anyway

How about a monthly vote for the guru's?
say we have a form with numerous people with knowledge of a certain subject and then let the other people rate what they are saying?

ie:

Person Tick here for vote
Mr A
Mr B
Miss C
A N Other

That sort of thing?
Just a suggestion but it could be posted in the relevant forums?

Tony

ex-webby

OK...

so to summarise all of this so far... this is what I propose.

I am only suggesting we give it a go. If you feel strongly that it would make things worse, then please let me know and we'll work something else out... but I really feel it is worth trying.

Rating System :
We post in General asking for suggestions as to the categories of rating (I think limiting to about 5 or 10 MAX).

The ratings can be shown as something like wheelnuts, in a pattern similar to on a scooby wheel (5 in a circle).

If you have no ratings, your side bar looks just like it does now.

If you are rated in any category you get a wheel with the name of the rating in the middle and the wheel nuts around the outside (the design side is COMPLETELY open for discussion for ideas).

--- how do the ratings work? (BTW.. the mods should have ratings also.. and I think that we should all possibly have negative ratings as well as positive ones??? including me)

If you rate someone highly in one of the categories.. let's say they help you out, but tracking down a part you were looking for...

you would click "rate this member" under their name.

You would be presented with a screen of categories and would chose the "Helpfulness" option. You would then rate then out of 5, and type a short message saying "this person helped me find a part, and really helped me out." and would point to a thread showing it.

This rating would appear in a list where the moderators can see it. The moderator looks at the list on a regular basis and reads the comments to see if it is a valid rating.

Once it is approved it appears next to the members name and shows 5 wheels nuts, and underneath (by 1 member) and has the "helpfulness" icon in the middle of it.

If someone else rates them as 1, their rating goes down to 3 wheel nuts and shows (by 2 members), and is averaged like that.

--

If you see a member with this rating, you can click their rating icon and see a list of all the reasons people posted when they submitted their rating.

---

Guru system.

If someone has more than (say 10) 5 wheel nut ratings against a technical subject, and their average is about 3, they can be nominated as a guru. If 5 people nominate them and the moderator's also agree, they become a guru. This would make it very difficult to become a guru (as it should be).

----

That's about it.

Thoughts?

Cheers

Simon

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup like the key skills thing too

Tony

chrisp

rating or no rating everyone is entitled to my opinion

ex-webby

hi chrisp

"Easy you need a moderator to sanction the move from the newbie forum once they have got all their initial questions out of their system"

currently we sign up getting on for 800 members a month. Each time someone wanted to join the "real scoobynet" a mod would have to look through all their posts and determine whether they are eligible. You then get one person being allowed in and another not, etc.

"Rather than a moderator you could have "newbie advisor" ie some prepared to look in the newbie forum and offer advice almost like a mentor role"

EXCELLENT idea. I still think the newbie forum should be an extra rather than something people are restricted to. Remember that the majority of people are good honest genuine people.

STi go fast

this is all nice and cuddley but do we belive that the people who are bothered about getting brownie points are also the people who cause disruptive posts?

simon, your original post asked for ways of getting back some community spirit- this came in amongst a wake of post that made the "community" look like a place full of yobs shouting abuse at each other. if this was a real community would nominating someone as being particulaly helpfull shut the yobs up?

ppl like beastman would not exist if there was a stricter registration period (nor would sti go fast for that matter ) but beastmans existance would be uneffected by a rating system. maybe i miss the point of what you are trying to do.

T

Fuzz

OK scrap the ignored by # idea

Right ! how about running the Forum in two halves so to speak.
(from experience of an old AOL drivers chat thingy I used to post on.)
have the forum running as it runs now but also have a separate invitation only members area.

as a invited member you can still comment in both areas.

probs.. you can still post drivel in the "everyone" forum
but if your seen to be a valued member you get invited in, maybe by vote amongst members area people.

heads hurting now, too much input

thoughts ?

Andy

Fuzz

if this rating idea is to work I think it needs to be VERY simple. not from the "simplton" person angle but more from the fact it's just too much hastle to rate someone good.
far more likely, people that are [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] will rate someone bad but not someone to rate someone good ?

everyone then ends up with negative ratings
and it's doesn't achieve anything.


Andy
(we are English we are born to moan )

ex-webby

STI

"this is all nice and cuddley but do we belive that the people who are bothered about getting brownie points are also the people who cause disruptive posts?"

Like i've said. This is NOT to make the disruptive people want to score brownie points.. it is merely to *encourage* a more positive attitude among the entire community. This way people will be less tolerant of the trouble makers and they will soon get bored and clear off.

This is the whole reason I keep saying, we must make no mention of the trouble makers in the feature. Only show appreciation for the good people.

Fuzz

"have the forum running as it runs now but also have a separate invitation only members area"

THANK YOU for more suggestions, and I'm really sorry I'm not going to be positive about it.. Only problem with that is it becomes elitest. It would promote a "crap board" and a "good board" attitude, and an "us and them".

Nat21

I COMPLETELY agree. It may seem silly to some, but I can't tell you how much better I feel about the whole thing after this thread.

Cheers

Simon

ex-webby

Fuzz

"everyone then ends up with negative ratings"

There will be no such thing as a negative rating, only positive or no rating.

Cheers

Simon