PeterUK300

iTrader: (1)

Hi All
I have got to say Rating = Elitist.

I also agree that people with no rating could be thought less of and ignored. This is a BBS for all Scoobynetters who are supposed to be Adults and behave like Adults.
Surely a simple answer to people who are negative, undermining, rude and belittling would be for them to be reported to a moderator. The moderator then sends them a warning and that is logged (1st offence), 24hr suspension (2nd Offence) and Banned (3rd offence). The 3 and your out rule. To make it fair you could make the 2nd and 3rd Offences requiring say 3 Mods to agree.

I just feel giving people ratings will be putting people on pedestals and could cause a them and us feel to the BBS. Some already treat post counts like this?????

Just my 2pence worth...

All the best
Pete

Fuzz

Edit to add Regards negative stars / points :
Sorry Webbie,
speed reading your fourth post on Page 8, missed the fact you were quoting someone else, took it to read it was your point of view

Andy

[Edited by Fuzz - 10/16/2002 8:59:01 PM]

Carlos The Jackel

What about having the people that actually own(ed) a Suburu highlighted in some way. They are the most important people in this BB. Maybe stating this under the username if the are/were an owner or are not. Most of the trouble comes from Non-Scooby owning people. What has someone like co$$ie actually brought to Scooynet(apart from some hilarity)? I say greater power and recognition to Scoobie owners - how about the power to delete non-scooby owners threads and accounts - LOL - OK maybe a bit too far! But restricting forum access or something. I actually don't a scoobie yet BTW

Carlos The Jackel

Nath, i suggested it for people that own(ed) meaing ex owners too! I think Simon has been readin a "Power of Positive Thinking Book"

logiclee

Read the thread with interest. The main problem as I see it are people that hijack threads with "your car is crap, mine has 500bhp" type comments.

On the ratings system I'm totaly against it. I'm very technically minded and have been part of a number of lively debates and discussions in drivetrain, although not as many recently, and get a fair few e-mails, but every one on scoobynet is equal except for moderators and post counts.

Looking at other bbs's with ratings (POTN, RS etc) there always seems to be a them and us culture ignoring posts from non rated members and taking what rated members say as gospel.
Lets delete the disruptive / flame war type post and leave every one else equal.

If you had just bought a scoob would you not feel a little intimidated coming on here feeling you are going to be rated by the regulars?

Lee

ex-webby

Hi Peter!

"I have got to say Rating = Elitist."

I dissagree. I think the rating system we are talking about is completely the opposite of elitist. It allows the community as a whole to tell others that someoneELSE is good. It allows everyone to post as much as anyone else, and does not ban people (which I think is elitist). It allows the community to speak and shape itself.

"post counts"

Post counts are controlled by the user him / herself, not by other people.

"Banning"

It simply isn't workable on the internet. There is no way to completely 100% ban people. You can make it difficult for people, but in my experience, people who feel they have been insulted are incredibly motivated, and there is nothing more desirable (in human nature) than something you're told you can't have.

Carlos

"recognition to Scoobie owners"

Not sure about this one. I think it is unfair to say either that the majority of trouble is from non-scooby owners, or that scooby owners are the most important / valuable people here. It would also be a dramatic turn towards elitism.

Steve vRS

As long as the forum is free and public then the idiots will always be able to get involved and ruin the general good feeling the community generates.

I for one would not object to a small (token ) subscription. IMHO this would deter the posters who just want to cause trouble.

The only downside of course is that free and public access to the board is what has made it great and inevitably a victim of it's own success.

Steve

Carlos The Jackel

Why not make the registration form longer so only the people that really want to join - will?

[Edited by Carlos The Jackel - 10/16/2002 9:14:45 PM]

SCOSaltire

just ignore them
simple

ratings not as good an idea as - key skills with a search to find the gurus, thats much more useful.
Tho I dont see how this will be worked... just sending emails privatly... other wont see the posts.
Personal forums then? not in the subjects tho.. too many to look at too.
listing key skills next to a user would help show that they are skilled in that area... i do like that.
tho if u ask them questions.. ud find that out i think


banning, etc - doubt that will be 100% worth it as the only means... people will just re-register to be really annoying.

rising above them and ignoring them is best.
if someone floods, etc - then banning that user is needed... but its not the best deterent.

def not good to have a newbies forum like quarantine...
in the past few days i can think of about 10 posters who have less than 100 posts and needed help or wanted to meet up or could give help.

i first posted here coz i could not decide about what car to get.
was v helpful.

i dont come to general much - spend it in forums 10, 11, 13 and 28 mostly

approval of posts before they are made 'active' is also not good.
very mod intensive and restrictive.



[Edited by SCOSaltire - 10/16/2002 9:23:38 PM]

ex-webby

Hi logiclee

"Looking at other bbs's with ratings (POTN, RS etc) there always seems to be a them and us culture ignoring posts from non rated members and taking what rated members say as gospel."

OK.. accepted this is a risk, but we can counter that. Should this kind of attitude arise in a rated member, their rating will reduce. We *could* (although I'm terrified to suggest this after my last **** up!!) have an auto signature at the bottom of every guru / rated member's post in tiny writing (!!! ) saying something like "Just because I'm rated doesn't mean I know everything, take note of what other people say, even if they don't agree with me". I think it's all about a culture rather than the actual logos, icons and words.

"Lets delete the disruptive / flame war type post and leave every one else equal."

The problem with this is it antagonises, the trouble makers, creates endless work for the moderators, who are then chastised as being ****'s and quashing freedom of speech, etc and turns the place into a padlock fest.

"If you had just bought a scoob would you not feel a little intimidated coming on here feeling you are going to be rated by the regulars?"

You cannot have a negative rating.. only a positive one. Most people will be zero rated I would assume, and the odd person here and there will have a positive rating in one or more categories. This will build up in time and we will have a core of people who members can quickly see as being long term "helpful" type people.

Cheers

Simon

Shark

There's 18000+ already mate, what you going to do with them

Seriously tho, you could get everybody to re register, but I would say that would be a massive task.

David

ex-webby

Right...

I need to crack on with a whole hill of other stuff now.. so THANK YOU.. and I'll check back later tonight.

All the best

Simon

ScoobyK

This thread's been getting longer as I've been trying to read the darn thing !

I think the simple answer is just above...ignore the stupid posts. I've seen many examples where things have started innocently and then move on at a pace as two or three people can't let go and accept that someone is looking for a fight.

It's no different to the workplace...there is always one person in a team / group / family / community that wants to play devils adv and will succeed in winding others up.

Ignore them, they will get bored.

D Noble

OK,jumped from page 4 to 9,itll take all night to sift through it
(webmaster how do you do it!! )

has anyone any thoughts on getting rid of the muppet forum,this just encourages people to make daft statements,whether posted in this section or general etc,TBH i think things got worse when it was introduced!.

i personally dont have a problem with the moderators deleating threads,if you say something daft/slanderous/foul mouthed(even using ****, people may sit up and take notice that the forum is supposed to be fun and enlightening,if they want an argument use the telephone!!!

regards
dave

Dougster.

Rating the 'nice' people on SNet?

What shines 'aint always gold! You may have some nice stars next to your name, but who is to say you might not go off on one?

The ones that don't get stars may become even more set on doing damage and finding ways to abuse others or start new threads.

The Moderator system and being able to report threads which people find offensive/derogatory/slanderous/libelous should work.

What 'aint broke,(yet) don't try and fix it.

What we need to do as a community is be more collectively responsible and report threads more often, then in turn the moderators can decide what to do with it.

An easier way to report threads? i.e. 'If any one feels this should be reported, click here'
I know it's there already but if you have seen that others may feel the same way and also have 'clicked'(anonymously)it might promote a better response from the majority of sensible users.

I know I have been guilty recently of not reporting a thread, and instead have gone 'crying' to our local moderator which only led to more debate.

My solution would be implement some of the suggestions mentioned earlier in the thread. Find a way to educate the community to 'whistle blow' and make it easier to do so. Then let the Moderators DO thier job, possibly in a firmer manner if you think things are that bad.

Scoobynet is OK, we all need to go away for the day and bond!!

dsmith

Each one of us see various categories of "other" users. There are those amongst us who will do all sorts to help in their specialised field but enjoy good banter and an argument every now again.

I see others who post every time they so much as drop 5p down the drain looking for the support of many people who neither know them or are ever likely too. I simply dont "get" this. It winds me up. I react to it. Judging by comments in this thread and off-line conversations I'm definately not alone. People post their feelings. they get an honest reaction.

If you go to any forum outside of Non-scooby or general I would say help to non-help (banter,contrary argument, downright twaddle, actual abuse) ratio is very high. Non-scooby it can be variable but is still far more help than non-help. General is I would say about evens and goes through cycles.

If by "better community" we're all supposed to simply give virtual hugs to every poster and just ignore anything we dont agree with it will be a) boring to read b) dead within weeks.

If people want to exchange well thought out written arguments with no spelling errors over a period of time, write a letter to the times.

If people want to sell with no comment on price, merit of product register on e-bay.

if you want a bit of help, a bit of banter and the views of an incredibly wide cross-section of people , ScoobyNet is still a great place to visit.

Its *only* an Internet BBS at the end of the day, we're not shaping the democratic government of a nation

Deano

Numptie

Right, I'm surprised at myself replying to this because I've got a few issues with the original intent ... but I won't go there.

Anyway, if there is a desire for the rating thing, how about a button in each post (and reply) to make a one off vote for merit.

The poster (and it's got to include replies, not just topic starters) will be rated on the accumulated votes.

Everyone gets different things out of SN. I rarely visit the technical forums and when I do, I rarely understand what's being posted. As an example for me however, someone posted a joke in muppet tonight which made me laugh after a really horrible few days - that helped me, seriously.

I haven't thought this through so I'm prepared to be told the idea is nonsense.

Dave, with all due respect, if you don't like what's in there, don't click the link.

No, leave the post count.

Phil Harrison

Simon,

Your exposition of "ratings" seemed to relate basically to Technical and advisory issues. It's fine in that context, though there are some shortcomings such as 'the expert who doesn't appear to be expert but actually is more expert than he who shouts loudly', as already alluded to.......

BUT

We came in on an issue which was not a technical enquiry and didn't require advice: and the shortcoming which attracted your attention was bad behaviour (and lack of supportiveness). I don't read all the Forums.... but isn't the problem overwhelmingly prevalent on "General"?? After all, Muppets have their own place to play, which we don't have to read: and Technical and Event Forums don't seem to have the problem: for example I asked a very simple question about Tyre pressures and got several helpful and polite answers including - as so often the case - from Dave T-S (award the man 10 spanners!!)

Cor - its a job to keep up with this one (When my Outlook express said "Message 1 of 48" I knew I was in for a long evening!)No wonder people sometimes don't read the posts carefully! I dread opening my E-Mail tomorrow morning!!!

If you allow that its a behavioural problem I wonder if the occasional "cool it or I'll lock the thread" post from the Moderators might be all that's needed. There are plenty of good ideas around... but sledgehammers and nuts need to be guarded against as well.

It's as well to remember that alcohol is sometimes a factor......

Phil

Dark Blue Mark

Simon,

Shut the BBS down, form a splinter one, and only tell the decent people?! (or is that 22B.com)

There are some absolute ***** on here, most are probably kids or insecure adults who spend most of their time having to down everyone or post about how well hung they are

Most of the forums are good, such as Drivetrain. Most of the crap is in general or non scoob. Maybe these could be moderated communist style!

MB

[Edited by Dark Blue Mark - 10/16/2002 10:37:28 PM]

Dougster.

dsmith, I agree, but it is a part of our lives, being an educational tool and a means to meet new friends.

Numptie, If people can't be bothered reporting threads, are they going to rate someone?

The Muppets(yes I've been) will all be gurus/keepers of the Snet or whatever within ten minutes!!

BOB.T

You can't blame everything bad on the muppets[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

I spend a fair amount of time in the hutch, it's a great place to go and have a laugh when you don't want to talk cars or be serious I've also met a load of the regulars and they're great people, we organised a camping trip which went without a hitch and on the whole, we don't fall out, pick spelling mistakes etc etc

The flip side of that is that I've spent 9 years in the motor trade, working in both service departments and bodyshops and like to help out on posts where I feel my knowledge can help.

RE comunity spirit, if I don't like the manner in which someone posts I just ignore everything they write, simple really!

I've been on here about 18 months now I think, in that time I've learnt loads about scoobs (enough to realise I can't afford one!), met shed loads of really nice people (and nobody I don't like), plus I've been to events, had I not seen them on here I wouldn't even know existed!

I think I've maybe gone a little off topic here haven't I? Ah well, I think SN is great, I agree it could do with changing slightly but I hope it doesn't change much

Bob

PS, Thanks again to Simon and all the Mods, sponsors etc

D Noble

Hi numptie,nice to meet you on mull(see posts in scotland)

i dont go into muppet forum,has never done anything for me,
my point was that it trivialises the board to a certain extent,which i think spills out onto the rest,do we really posts with 300 odd pages?
i like a good joke and a bit of fun as do most on the bbs, use the other sections if you have a good joke to tell,but having the muppet forum encorages stoopid posts(imho)

regards
dave

dsmith

Trust me part of mine. First post this morning about 8.30, posted on and off all day. Didnt write a design doc I was supposed too but did upload a heap of stuff at the request of someone in Comp Related. Designed and sent a nokia logo for another member then went out for the evening and now I'm posting again.

Its like a virus

Deano

Dougster.

Sweet.

Lets get some positive stuff on this thread to let us know it's real and we are going to keep it that way!!!

Numptie

Aaahhh ! I tried not to reply, really I did. I knew it wouldn't advance the original quest of the thread ... but I couldn't resist. Apologies - this'll be my last.

Dougster, what I suggested would be less effort than taking time out to go to a new page to rate another user on his / her various attributes. Also, in my experience, people are normally reluctant to complain / klipe (SP?) but they get a kick out of giving praise.

Aye Dave, good to meet you too. On this issue, I'll agree to differ.

Dream Weaver

Phew - struggling to keep up with this one, but <sucks breath in>

I am not sure IMHO if the ratings thing will do anything - we saw how the letters could be abused, so abuse of ratings would happen.

chrisp did a great build on my original newbie/probationary forum idea, by adding in newbie advisors. Look back at the top of page 8 for Chrisps point

Basically the newbie forum would limit new registrants to posting only in that forum. The abuse - i.e. post crap til you reach 100 and can move to the main forums, can be governed by mods, webbie, and the newbie-advisors. Basically people who can keep a watchful eye over the newbies and their posts, help them where required, and then suggest when they should be able to move to the main forums.

There are plenty of people here who could spare the time to work as an advisor - I for one as I like to help people and am here often enough - no fancy titles required, it could all be done in stealth if necessary.

If they move to general and cause problems, then move them back to newbies for a while

Dream Weaver

Actually not a bad idea from Carlos, apart from the Data Protection bit, but you could make the reg form huge, including "required" details on car mods, colours, bhp figures, name, occupation, 10 hobbies, 10 favourite things etc etc. People interested would enter the info.

Anyone entering for a laugh just wouldn't be arsed

PS Carlos - I dont own a Scoob, never have (and at the mo probs never will), but haven't offended anyone (intentionally) during the last 2 odd years

Edited - just reading some more

From dsmith.

That's all it is to you Deano, but it means quite a lot to me. A bit sad I know, but I work on my own 5 days a week from home, and apart from the odd phone call dont get a chance to hold a decent intelligent conversation with anyone until the evening. The BBS give me a chance to "chat" with people, many of who I have met so can put faces to names.

from Bob T - That cos you're a decent bloke Bob, without a bad word to say about anyone

Great thread this

[Edited by Dream Weaver - 10/17/2002 12:08:07 AM]

[Edited by Dream Weaver - 10/17/2002 12:09:13 AM]