Turboteeth

I'll give you a tenner for the two front seats...

bluto22b

When will the leather seats be appearing in the For Sale forum

Glad you survived, feel sorry for the nice motor. Judging by all the "Jesus H Christ" comments, who was watching Full Metal Jacket last night then? Sounds like a boot Camp on here tonight...Bluto

MooseRacer

AWD = good grip Ice = no grip AWD v Ice = crashed car (in most cases)


That is the biggest and most dangerous misconception about 4wd cars, more traction yes, but NOT more grip.

Krade

Holy Sheep ****!
Ive just seen the Pics.
Thank god you walked away from that.

Mark Kwiatkowski

That is a really horrific looking accident, someone up there has given you a second chance at living. Glad to hear that you stepped out of it one more or less one piece.

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

holy **** mate, you are one lucky futher mucker!!!!

where did it happen???

Fuzz

That's one horrific surname you got there mark

makes me think of trying to creep in when the missus is asleep.
(I can see everyones brain ticking now, "I don't get that")


Only joking mate.

back on topic now peeps, sorry about that

Andy

for those of you that still aint got it...

quiet-house-key ,


edit to: remove the "welcome to scoobnet" sentence after seeing how long ago the man registered

[Edited by Fuzz - 10/23/2002 9:36:14 PM]

dhorwich

i get it cos my best mate is one pathfinder...!!!

Dan

Rollerskate01

A reminder to us all that we are mortal. Also as drivers of one of the fastest machines on the road we have a responsiblity to use the power with care.

Having said that I will be the first to admit I have thought to myself "you idiot" just after thinking that was close!!

DRIVE WITH CARE WINTER IS HERE.

JamieR

Pathy,

Glad you're ok. Sorry to see that your pride and joy is no more.

I'm sure you're still in shock after the accident. You'll have that in-car action reply in your head for the rest of your life.

We ALL make mistakes and misjudements, but what's done is done, so use this experience to your advantage. LEARN from it, without letting your pride or emotions get in the way. Try not to attribute blame, think about what you would do differently if you could be 30 seconds back up that road and then APPLY this knowledge from now on. And not just until the shock subsides.

Interesting to note that Jerome (page 6) posted one of most sensible responses here... and he's had a similar accident in the past. I, on the other hand, haven't been (quite) so fortunate

Des

Hi

Read Dave-TS's post with some interest. Bit disappointed in the attitude but then I suppose everyone has an opinion. Particularly surprised at the comments though. See quote below:

'And of course I drive like a loon sometimes, but I do it within the limits of my car and myself.'

Cant believe that anyone is naive enough to admit to driving in a spirited fashion while saying he was 'in control'. No one is ever 'in control'.

Im pretty sure Michael Schumacher thought he was 'in control' just before he hit the wall and broke his leg. Its amazing how 'out of control' a situation can become when things go wrong. Unless of course the 'perfect' and 'in control' drivers on this board (who apparently also know how to drive better than MS - please send all CVs to the Ferrari recruitment department...) are going to tell me they can handle a sudden tire deflation (as seen when Mika Hakkinen didnt handle his car in Germany a while back, on a nice long STRAIGHT). Especially if the tire deflation occured mid-bend and at speed.

I will admit to not being the greatest driver in the world. Ill also admit to driving my car in what I regard as a controlled spirited fashion away from built up areas (clearly the case in pathfinders pictures), but what I wont admit to is being so perfect that things cant go wrong.

Pathfinder uses this route to get to work. He has probably done the same run to work a million times before, under similar conditions and not had any problems. That this particular day, something happened which was different, which resulted in an accident, is no reason to start a holier-than-thou session.

Thats my opinion of course...

PS: If my insurance does go up pathfinder, Ill use your other crutch (seeing how farmer Giles has the other one) to send you back to hospital... ;-)

Sorry to hear about your accident. Try not do it again....

[Edited by Des - 10/23/2002 9:58:06 PM]

King RA

How'd you take out so much fence?

findlay106

LOL @ Rollerskate... Cracking comment... The Impreza is good... but THAT good??? Hmmmm.

Anyway...

Pathfinder you are lucky to be alive and for that, count your blessings. The rest of you who find AWD invincibility on a regular basis need a good dressing down by your local Traffic Cop. In an area where scoobys are like Saxos (everyone has one) it amazes me the amount of Middle-aged guys who suddenly come over all 'rally driver' behind the wheel of their scoobs. Thank god the wife, 2.4 kids and the dog aren't normally with you (apologies for the stereotype but it kind of suits the point I am making)!

We all speed and do silly things (some more regularly than others) but do it where its relatively safe and read the road. This can only serve as a timely reminder for us all to watch the speed and calm down.

Happy motoring... By the way you are now infamous on the PGAC forum!

MK4POLO.

Oh dear, very nasty. glad your well though. will the seats fit a polo! lol, only kiddin.
i know im gonna get a slating for this, but hey! Dave, your a prize pr1ck. I am disgusted with the way you let go at this bloke, yeah he fcuked up, but that dont make him a bad person. and NO, there werent anyother cars involved, and NO, he didnt injure anyone else so DONOT live on 'what if'. I am sure, owning a scooby, you drive fast. youve just been lucky. I'll be the first to laugh when your LUCK runs out. But then again, you probably wont be man enough to admit it. Pathfinder, good luck in the hunt for a new car. Dave, two words....the second of which is OFF, feel free to choose the first.
Good day to ya all!
MK4POLO!

speedking

is a pretty extreme situation, and there are far more frequent difficulties that will occur which are easily survivable. I think that the main point is that driving with both hands on the wheel, concentrating, looking out the windscreen and not at the ICE, observing the road/traffic/weather conditions, not using a mobile while driving, etc. etc. make it far more likely that you (and your car) will emerge from lesser situations unscathed. This experience is only gained with miles (and years) under the belt. Just because a bend could be taken at 60 last time (or the last million times LOL, surely an exaggeration) doesn't mean that it can be today.

DuggE4

Glad to see you are ok pathfinder! Shame about the scoob, it looked a nice one.

I don't know what to say about the comments made, I think we have all made mistakes and sometimes a bit of diesel or something [like a dead hedgehog :O)] on the surface of the road can make all the difference as to whether a corner can be made or not.

Everyone bear this in mind in the future though, AWD or not since the road surface got wet and damp, its a recipe for disaster if you push it too hard. Remember to THINK about the road surface conditions before you go larging it all over the place. No-one wants to hear about someone on here dying from a car crash, or indeed if you survive, only to find out you wiped out a young family, leaving a little girl/boy without a mother/father.

Drive WELL not HARD and keep it SAFE!

EVOLUTION

Well what can i say MK4 POLO, im only new on here myself and thats the most aggresive entrance ive ever seen.

Dave T-S

Des
As you say, this is a public forum, and within the limits of defamation etc we are all entitled to our opinion - you as well as me. With 6 billion or so people having theoretical access to the internet, and in theory this thread, it is natural that not all opinions will agree

By the same token I feel no need to respond to your post in detail as I respect your counter opinion

MK4POLO
The same applies to you, although I see you have taken the slightly more offensive route - "Dave, your a prize pr1ck" and "Dave, two words....the second of which is OFF, feel free to chose the first"

MK4POLO, welcome to Scoobynet and as a newbie may I say thank you for bringing your reasoned and valued comments to the discussion

Incidentally, the correct English is either "Dave, you are a prize pr1ck" or "Dave, you're a prize pr1ck", but never "Dave, your a prize pr1ck" - that would imply I have a rather large and impressive *****, and thus I thank you for the compliment

PS - your Polo is better looking than the average Max Power car

longun

LOL at Dave nice come back.

However no matter how true your comments are can't we all just be glad he's ok and quit the bitchyness? I've never been in an accident and never want to be, but that doesn't mean I'm going to drive at 40 everywhere, I might make a mistake but I'm only human.

Glad your ok.

Cheers

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Well you are cetainly getting some exposure with those pics. Every slightly car related board I've been on has a thread with a link to your pics.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

LOL@Dave
We know that MK4 Polo is jealous due to the fact that anyone can fart near his/her car and the alarm disables
But seriously, people have to understand that we have to change our driving to suit the conditions of the road, like this morning, cold and icy, great for performance, bad for going off road
EVERYONE, just be careful out there, there are things that you wont see until its too late (as Pathy found out) so take it easy

Pathy,
its a bit unnerving isnt it when you sit there thinking oooooooooops ive made a little mistake whilst the car is rolling (been there) and you just want it to stop (i didnt have the thoughts of dying though, just oooooooooooooops).
Hope your foot gets better soon and get back on that bit of road, its a corner that will haunt you for a while me thinks

MK4,
welcome to scoobynet just dont slate one of our valued members off, its a good job that Dave has a sense of humour or he and his missus would both be driving Volkswagons

Tony

Diablo

Nasty one. Glad to hear you are ok.

Been there, done that once myself and once as a passenger.

Yes, I learned a bit from it. What I learned, however, was that I am not invincible and that a) it can all go wrong and b) when it does it hurts like f**k .

It did not stop me running a succession of cars including a 205 1.9 Gti, Impreza Turbo, and Integra Type R.

And enjoying them to the full.

Otherwise, what is the point?

Drive an escort instead.

Life is full of risks, its just how calculated you want to be when taking them.

Dave, I hear what you are saying (typing, if we are being pedantic ), but I would challenge you, or anyone else who is being critical of the bloke who had this incident (word chosen carefully, because in my experience there is no such thing as an "accident" )to honestly say that they have never driven in a manner which could result in something like this happening.

Certainly you might, with the benefit of experience, be more circumspect, but so many things can happen outwith our control.

You admit to driving like a loon sometimes. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Two teenagers who live where I was brought up were sentenced to 9 years in total for causing the death of a passenger in one of the cars when the driver lost control and crashed. They were, apparently, racing each other at high speed.

I know the facts of the case, and the reality of the situation is that they were doing nothing more than you would see on a "meet". They were certainly driving at speeds well below the speeds I have travelled along that same bit of road.

One of the drivers lost control and hit a wall. Unfortunately, his passenger was thrown out (no seatbelt) and tragically died. Driver and driver of other car (undamaged) was not hurt.

One death, and 9 years custodial sentence.

It could have been you, me, most of my mates, or any number of posters on scoobynet. That it wasn't is as much luck as anything else.

There is no place for hypocracy here, or anywhere for that matter.

D




[Edited by Diablo - 10/24/2002 10:37:56 AM]

Pete Croney

Pathy

In aviation terms that is known as CFIT...

Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

Its a technical term meaning pilot error.

Glad you are OK.

PiNkEyE69

I'm not going to take any sides, just offer my view.
Driving, wether you like it or not, is dangerious.
Every time you step behind the wheel there are hundreds of things that can go wrong during the course of a leisurly drive to work: Oncomming car with problems, ice on road, blowout, car pulling our from side road infront of you (been there! only it was into the side of me), greasy road (considering we've had a long sunny period followed by rain), it's the traning we have during our driving lessons plus common sense plus experiance that allows us (to a degree) to steer our car from a to b without hiccup.

I will admit, I was stupid a few years ago and crashed my car on a roundabout. It was wet, greasy, and I lost it and spun 270 degrees and driver side door into a crash barrier at about 30 Mph (no side impact brace or airbag on that car). I escaped unhurt through the passender side door but the car was a write off). I learnt from this and can say I'm a better and safer driver for it. (I won't get into the debate over the factors involved - lets just say 3 weeks later another car did the same thing and the council decided that it might be a good time to resurface the road)

Life is one big learning experiance. We all make mistakes (and I dare anybody to say they haven't), people shouldn't be judged on mistakes they've made.

BTW, he's now famous on the Pistonheads forum

[Edited by PiNkEyE69 - 10/24/2002 11:23:07 AM]

TRIGGER

I think we are all glad he is ok - have no doubt in that.

Dave T-S is talking more of his attitude towards the event anyway. Yes, of course accidents/incidents happen - we all make mistakes and most have accidents. I have myself. But the only way to get something positive from this, is not to be bragging about it and realise he was driving badly. Accept your failures and then learn from them.

Chris L

LOL @ MK4Polo - you don't know Dave do you!! Bad idea for a newbie to make big assumptions.

Dave's point, put in his own unique way, is that we should know our limits and stop being heros all the time.

Just glad that the driver was OK. To walk away from a crash like that - jesus. With 'luck' like that, I hope you bought a lottery ticket the same day!

Chris

tinvek

i was talking to a police engineer last year about this sort of thing

the trouble is these days we all take the grip for granted. tyres and cars have so much grip in the wet we never feel (unless realy pushing) that we can run out of grip and so we carry on at similar speeds to those we do when its dry not realising that often we are up in the high 90%s of the total grip available. also due to the grip we're even spared the clue of excessive wheel spin a(especially with 4 wheel drive)an dthe need to be carefull when accelerating and abs takes away the need for carefull braking and so these other mental reminders of decreased grip are missed.
as a rsult we all drive along at the same speed as in the dry not realising that instaed of a safety margin of perhaps 25% of available grip, we have in fact only 2.5%, one little misjudgement, a sharp ****** of the wheel to swerve around a stone and we're suddenly past the limit. and now because the limit is so much higher than the old days, not only do we cover the available space quicker whilst we try to cope but also due to the extra g forces, there now is much more energy / momentum to be controlled.

if anyone here is old enough to have driven cars when crossplies were the norm, i'm sure they remember how low the limits were but also how easily the slides developed and were caught. i'm not old enough to have owned a car on crossplies but i've driven a few and its amazing just how much lower the limits were back then.as an aexample my first car was a HC viva andyou could hardly call it entertaining as it had more grip than power but i drove a viva on crossplies once and it was an absalute hoot to drive as it could be made to slide its tail on every bend and at slow, easlit controlled speeds. in fact i wwould best describe the lack of grip as being similar to driving with four radials which were almost flat.

it's easy to critisise someone for crshing but how many of realy know how far we are from the limit? and how many of us can truefully say that we know how our cars and our selves will behave when we unintentially step over that limit as opposed to when we're "having fun" and deliberatly provoking slides etc ?

ian_sadler

Hey TinV,

My first car was a Viva HC 1600 then an old crapie, sorry Capri. Yep you did find the limits a lot earlier

Ian

SiPie

Agree with above posts........ RWD beetles and cortinas, soon teach you a thing or three about 'debatable levels of grip, everyone should drive them, then FWD, then AWD'!!!

ProperCharlie

When I was quite a new driver I had to drive a Nissan Cabstar (3.5t truck)for work. Driving this 'thing' made me realise just how much grip we take for granted. I lost control of it more times than I can remember. A month later my driving style totally changed. Luckily none of the loss of control incidents resulted in an accident. Unlike one of the other guys - he showed up for work with stitches in his forhead one morning, claimed he'd been in a fight. I think the boss believed him until he saw the forehead shaped crack in the windscreen .

The point being I think a lot of car drivers would benefit from having to drive a heavy truck, and see how difficult it really is to lose speed or change direction without breaking traction. Just cos a modern car with good tyres 'feels' so safe, it's only moments away from being unsafe. Some of the things people do on motorways on a daily basis is really beyond belief. I often think its amazing that these clowns manage to survive at all.